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Post by hoyatmf02 on Jan 4, 2013 10:25:54 GMT -5
I'm with you brasky. I loved that kid and that game was 35 pts, 20 boards, 6 assists, and six blocks. We've had a lot of great players come in here since Big Mike, but none with that ability to dominate on a consistent basis. You could argue that a junior year Greg and a senior year Jeff might have, but I still don't think either of them could have reached that point.
I Josh Smith can get in decent playing shape for him and give us his freshman year level of production that would be great, but the potential upside could be higher.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 4, 2013 10:47:46 GMT -5
Welcome, Josh. Looking forward to following your contributions to Hoya basketball, starting a year from now. Happy to have you aboard.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 4, 2013 11:42:42 GMT -5
Are you saying Josh Smith isn't as talented as Sweetney?? Is this like a groundbreaking statement? Mike Sweetney was a unanimous All Big-East first teamer and the 8th pick in the NBA draft. He was a once every 5-10 years type talent but that gets lost because he played for Coach Fist and flamed out as a pro because of his weight. I'll never forget attending his 35 and 20 game against ND that we lost in 4OT. That game almost killed me. Not groundbreaking but I don't think anyone is questioning Smith's skill level. He has an advanced offensive game and his weight has really held him back. Of all the "big" 300+ big men to be around college ball since sweets left Josh Smith may be the most talented of them all. He has wasted a few years and hasn't had much production but he was very effective as a freshman even though he was still far from ideal shape back then. I just saying that the sweets comparison makes sense both weight-wise and skill-wise. Yes sweets was great and Smith hasn't had a good college career, but if Smith can get to around 280/290 he has the potential to be a very good player in the big east. If he gets closer to 260 he has a good chance of being the top big in college ball. That's how talented he is.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jan 4, 2013 11:51:03 GMT -5
Don't think anyone would argue about Josh's potential. If he can get his act together, he would be a huge asset. And, really, if his performance turns out to be only half of what Sweetney did in college, that would still be pretty good.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 4, 2013 12:02:01 GMT -5
It's not a good comparison. Sweets weight wasn't an issue in college or, at the least, wasn't an issue to the degree that it became later. If I had to guess, he played at around 260. Kid was a beast. SOOO much fun to watch him laugh at double and triple teams.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 4, 2013 12:12:44 GMT -5
Ok so his weight issues started, what, 2 years after Smith's did? Talk about disagreeing just to disagree...
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 4, 2013 12:26:43 GMT -5
Didn't Sweets have some weight / conditioning issues his freshman year that were solved by running with Ronnie Thompson (and I assume other things that were not as prominently reported)?
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Jan 4, 2013 15:09:37 GMT -5
There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for comparing Smith with Sweetney. The only reason anyone is even thinking of Sweetney in this conversation is because he became fat long after he left Georgetown and Smith is fat now. Sweetney was good immediately, and just kept getting better. He never struggled with motivation in any significant way and dominated everybody. If Josh Smith simply becomes Julian Vaughn we should all be happy.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Jan 4, 2013 15:10:40 GMT -5
Didn't Sweets have some weight / conditioning issues his freshman year that were solved by running with Ronnie Thompson (and I assume other things that were not as prominently reported)? The only running story I remember is about Hibbert.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 4, 2013 15:43:37 GMT -5
rock, it's not disagreeing just to disagree. Big Dog put it more succinctly. It's a bad comparison. They had one statistically similar year. That doesn't make them similar players just because they, at one point, had/have weight issues. Sweets was a phenomenal college player. Right now, Josh Smith isn't and has never been. Can that change? I sure hope so for his sake and for the sake of the Hoyas but to compare the two is to completely forget how damn good Sweets was as a college player.
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BigmanU
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Post by BigmanU on Jan 4, 2013 15:58:41 GMT -5
Didn't Sweets have some weight / conditioning issues his freshman year that were solved by running with Ronnie Thompson (and I assume other things that were not as prominently reported)? You are correct about the Ronnie Thompson stories. Sweets didn't have any issues. It was more so just the natural progression of a student athlete getting in better shape working on his craft. The wheels came off when he left the Hilltop.
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CO_Hoya
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Post by CO_Hoya on Jan 4, 2013 15:59:04 GMT -5
The only running story I remember is about Hibbert. Per my rarely reliable memory, Sweetney was in far better cardio shape as a junior than a freshman. There was a big to-do around these parts when Ronny was sitting at Mike's table on draft night with Esherick nowhere to be seen (or mentioned). Ronny definitely busted Sweetney's ass to get him in shape, and was making sure everyone knew it. Here's a nice article talking about it (Sweets weighed 320 lbs as a senior in high school). On the other hand, Sweets only managed 3 reps of the bench press at the draft combine, which sent a few posters off the deep end (I'm thinking RDF in particular went ballistic).
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 4, 2013 16:34:21 GMT -5
Because bench press has soooo much to do with playing basketball. I think Durant got zero. How many could he get now? 1?
When Sweets wanted to get to his spot on the block, he got there every single time. With a guy that big, it's a cardio issue. Same with Josh. He doesn't need to be cut in the upper body because he's plenty strong already. Just needs to be able to stay on the floor and exert himself for more than 2 minutes at a time.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Jan 4, 2013 16:37:01 GMT -5
I remember commentators on a few occasions during Mike's JR year saying that he had developed the habit of running 3-4 miles a day.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 4, 2013 18:28:01 GMT -5
rock, it's not disagreeing just to disagree. Big Dog put it more succinctly. It's a bad comparison. They had one statistically similar year. That doesn't make them similar players just because they, at one point, had/have weight issues. Sweets was a phenomenal college player. Right now, Josh Smith isn't and has never been. Can that change? I sure hope so for his sake and for the sake of the Hoyas but to compare the two is to completely forget how damn good Sweets was as a college player. I'm not trying to say that it's a good comparison, but saying there's absolutely no basis for comparison is beyond ridiculous. They have similar offensive games. They are both good offensive rebounders. They both have soft hands. They both have good feet. They are both big bodies. Josh has a better face up jumper? Look I'm not trying to say that's his best comparison, but to say that they only similar in weight issues is silly. Sure Sweets didn't struggle much with his weight for most of the time he was at GU, but that's because he worked hard to keep it off. Once he stopped doing that after he had family issues we all see what happened to him. Josh lost his motivation to work hard a few years earlier. You can't expect them to have identical paths, and it's stupid to argue about how dissimilar they are based on the fact that they had weight issues at different times in their lives (Josh early on in college, Sweets the year after he graduated). I'm not sitting here saying Smith will have the impact for us that sweets had, but if he cuts around 90-100 pounds he has the talent to be a dominant college big. The comparisons aren't exact, but both guys have similar strengths and builds. If there is a more accurate comparison than makes the Sweets one sound silly please tell me.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 4, 2013 20:32:07 GMT -5
I didn't say there was absolutely no basis for comparison though, at this point in time, there's nothing to compare but potential and a readout on a scale. I realize that you're referencing Big Dog's post but I agree with him to the extent that Sweets started as the better player and improved from there. Mr. Smith, as of right now, had one very solid freshman season. I would love to see the kid get in condition and then revisit the comparison. As of today, there isn't much to compare. Every talent/point of potential that Josh Smith has is currently being compromised by his not being in shape and, by most accounts, not committing to working at his game. That, in itself, is a glaring difference between he and Sweets. Until he actually realizes some of his promise, I don't see how you can compare him to a guy that dominated at the college level. Do they have some things in common? Hard to say right now. One guy displayed some brilliance on the court. The other, apparently, has the potential to do something similar. Thing is, until he does, they're really nothing alike.
I see what you're saying. I just don't agree due to the very small sample size. I'd be more likely to be swayed if Josh Smith had maybe that solid freshman year and then a much improved sophomore year and then some issues crept up. Without that improvement, it's very difficult to evaluate what his level of potential is on the college level (much less beyond). Maybe you watched him a bunch in HS. If so, I'll defer to you in terms of projecting what he can/can't be.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 4, 2013 20:40:13 GMT -5
More important than any disagreement is the fact that Mr. Smith has a fresh start. I hope the transfer is a good one for him both on the court and off. I'd love to make realistic comparisons to Sweets in the lead-up to the day that Josh walks across the stage to get his degree on his way to making an NBA roster. Another silver lining to all of this is he is going to be surrounded and supported by a really strong staff. I like a kid's chances of finding a better path in college as opposed to after when there aren't necessarily people around you trying to help you improve yourself.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 9, 2013 16:08:13 GMT -5
Was Josh Smith at the game last night? I didn't see him on the bench, but assume he would have been there?
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 9, 2013 16:11:21 GMT -5
Was Josh Smith at the game last night? I didn't see him on the bench, but assume he would have been there? He was on the bench.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 9, 2013 16:13:31 GMT -5
Was Josh Smith at the game last night? I didn't see him on the bench, but assume he would have been there? the real question is, how did you miss him??
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