Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 4, 2013 9:59:01 GMT -5
Well, I hate to think of you not puking this morning, so here you go...
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 4, 2013 10:20:57 GMT -5
Well, I hate to think of you not puking this morning, so here you go... ;D
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 4, 2013 12:48:31 GMT -5
Do you all think Lewis was clean? I know you can ask that question about almost anybody in the NFL, but his quick recovery from an injury that usually has a much longer recovery period, particularly at his advanced playing age, does raise doubts, doesn't it?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 4, 2013 13:03:09 GMT -5
Honestly, I think he probably took something during his recovery. Whether he knew that something contained a banned substance (or bothered asking if it did) is another question. I don't know.
But I don't understand how the NFL can ban a substance that they do not test for. How does that work, exactly?
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 4, 2013 13:28:08 GMT -5
no he wasn't clean. he is a con man. he is like bo-heem, calipari and coach k. the sad part is that people actually buy it.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 4, 2013 14:04:59 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 4, 2013 14:24:28 GMT -5
Let me clarify:
To Ray Lewis, Ray Lewis' body is a temple. There is no way he took anything and did not know EXACTLY what that something contained.
My comment about whether he knew about a banned substance was more directed at the league policy. Do the have a list of all substances, or just the ones that are tested? And why are there banned substances that are not tested? What is the possible point of that?
As for Atlanta, I really don't know what else there is to say. As I noted before, if you believe that Ray Lewis actually killed someone, then I don't expect you to ever view him in a positive light.
It is something of an irrational belief, based on the evidence, and the fact that even the prosecutors never really thought he was directly responsible for killing anyone (it is pretty clear his initial charges were designed to get him to testify, not because they thought they could convict him). But if that is your belief, so be it.
My personal opinion is that there are very few people who actually hold that belief. There are quite a LOT of people who hate him for other reasons, and saying "he's a murderer" helps to justify that dislike.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 4, 2013 14:27:30 GMT -5
Ray Lewis probably doped and probably has been for his whole career, I expect. There's no reason to believe the NFL is clean in any way.
Shannon Sharpe is a pansy with his weak-ass, puff interviews and inability to talk.
But Congrats to the Ravens! Played great, Flacco is gonna get paid and John gets bragging rights.
As a fan of neither team (and happy I don't have to hear Niners fans jaw for the next year):
* I wanted a high scoring game with fights and trash talk. Check.
* I wish the Harbaughs had had more fun with them playing each other. Trash talk, comments about how mom loved one better, etc., would have been much more entertaining.
* Surprised no one is talking about how the Baltimore nickelback? (29 - Williams) could have been ejected for shoving a ref in the first half. Glad to see the ref recognized that he didn't think it was a ref and didn't kick him out, but was an important no call.
* Heavily disappointed in the no call on fourth down. Blatant holding that kept us from seeing whether the Sexual Assaulter would have caught it, possible 2 point conversion and whether Flacco could have engineered a game-winning or tying drive as well as possible OT. As a fan, I feel robbed of what could have been and have no idea how you could miss that call.
* I also hate that "you don't call that late." Either you call it or you don't.
* I'm not saying the 49ers were robbed or that the officiating was bad or that the Ravens wouldn't have won. I'm saying we should have seen what would have happened rather than that abomination.
* Huge loophole in the rules exploited by the Ravens -- if you are going to take a safety, you can hold with impunity to keep from getting tackled, running off the clock. And they did. Very smart, but someone needs to think about that.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 4, 2013 14:31:57 GMT -5
I dislike Ray Lewis for a variety of reasons, but he's not a murdered. Did he help his friends who are get away? Almost certainly. Did he in any way attempt to make it up to the families of those who died? I don't know. Is it sickening to hear him get all pious and not acknowledge his role? Yes.
I also dislike those who believe that God took a direct hand in their successes, especially because of some attribute of themselves (e.g. My faith was so strong, God helped). Not people who thank God for creating the world, or crediting their faith for overcoming things, but God wanted me to win.
But I don't think he killed someone.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 4, 2013 14:45:54 GMT -5
As for the holding call, you can't make the point that there was obvious defensive holding on the play without acknowledging that there was also obvious offensive pass interference, and also that the ball was probably uncatchable.
I think all three of those things are true, in which case a no-call is the right thing to do.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Feb 4, 2013 14:50:45 GMT -5
Blatant holding that kept us from seeing whether the Sexual Assaulter would have caught it All right, a lot of accusations being thrown around, just wanted to point out that Crabtree was investigated but never charged, let's not jump to conclusions here.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 4, 2013 15:32:24 GMT -5
As for the holding call, you can't make the point that there was obvious defensive holding on the play without acknowledging that there was also obvious offensive pass interference, and also that the ball was probably uncatchable. I think all three of those things are true, in which case a no-call is the right thing to do. Wrong. Only one of those things is true to anyone but a diehard Ravens fan. Look, I think the Ravens deserved to win. They were dominant until the power outage, and that really stuffed their momentum unfairly. But that play was an obvious penalty. The Ravens were the beneficiary of a bad missed call, just as many winning teams over the course of an NFL season are. It certainly doesn't invalidate the win. But it was a truly awful blown call.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 4, 2013 15:34:34 GMT -5
Let me clarify: To Ray Lewis, Ray Lewis' body is a temple. There is no way he took anything and did not know EXACTLY what that something contained. My comment about whether he knew about a banned substance was more directed at the league policy. Do the have a list of all substances, or just the ones that are tested? And why are there banned substances that are not tested? What is the possible point of that? As for Atlanta, I really don't know what else there is to say. As I noted before, if you believe that Ray Lewis actually killed someone, then I don't expect you to ever view him in a positive light. It is something of an irrational belief, based on the evidence, and the fact that even the prosecutors never really thought he was directly responsible for killing anyone (it is pretty clear his initial charges were designed to get him to testify, not because they thought they could convict him). But if that is your belief, so be it. My personal opinion is that there are very few people who actually hold that belief. There are quite a LOT of people who hate him for other reasons, and saying "he's a murderer" helps to justify that dislike. What are the other reasons you cryptically mention?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 4, 2013 15:54:30 GMT -5
Let us not forget the biggest offenders in this Ray LewisValedictory tour. If the clowns who inhabit the mainstream sports media in this nation ignored his nonsense, we as fans would not have been subjected to it. Rather, they cover the hell out of his "look at me I am retiring" tour and then hypocritically decry the amount of time spent on it.
Ray Lewis is a selfish jerk. Those who give him the extensive forum to be such are worse.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 4, 2013 16:07:06 GMT -5
As for the holding call, you can't make the point that there was obvious defensive holding on the play without acknowledging that there was also obvious offensive pass interference, and also that the ball was probably uncatchable. I think all three of those things are true, in which case a no-call is the right thing to do. The ball was very catchable if he isn't held -- and the uncatchable aspect is only relevant to PI because of that reason. I don't think there was offensive PI there -- there was contact, but Crabtree never got the chance to push off because he was being held. I would have liked to see the result of the play without holding, that's all. And I dislike situational refereeing. EDIT: I'm with guru on this. The Ravens deserved to win. I don't know if Crabtree would have caught that and I think there's a decent chance Flacco drives for the win/tie anyway. But that was an awful call.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 4, 2013 16:21:30 GMT -5
As for the holding call, you can't make the point that there was obvious defensive holding on the play without acknowledging that there was also obvious offensive pass interference, and also that the ball was probably uncatchable. I think all three of those things are true, in which case a no-call is the right thing to do. Wrong. Only one of those things is true to anyone but a diehard Ravens fan. Look, I think the Ravens deserved to win. They were dominant until the power outage, and that really stuffed their momentum unfairly. But that play was an obvious penalty. The Ravens were the beneficiary of a bad missed call, just as many winning teams over the course of an NFL season are. It certainly doesn't invalidate the win. But it was a truly awful blown call. You have established yourself as pretty much a die hard Ravens hater, so you'll forgive me for not trusting your "objective" eyes. Several commentators during and after the game said they thought Crabtree was pushing off. But I don't expect you to see more than one side of that play. As for the reasons people hate Ray Lewis, I was not being cryptic. I thought they were pretty well known. He is a shameless self-promoter, lots of people have problems with the way he talks about God and/or faith all the time, and...well, you can go look at the Deadspin Guide To Hating Ray Lewis if you want more. There are also lots of reasons to love Ray Lewis, but most people who hate him don't -- or only begrudgingly -- acknowledge many of those.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 4, 2013 16:36:17 GMT -5
Wrong. Only one of those things is true to anyone but a diehard Ravens fan. Look, I think the Ravens deserved to win. They were dominant until the power outage, and that really stuffed their momentum unfairly. But that play was an obvious penalty. The Ravens were the beneficiary of a bad missed call, just as many winning teams over the course of an NFL season are. It certainly doesn't invalidate the win. But it was a truly awful blown call. You have established yourself as pretty much a die hard Ravens hater, so you'll forgive me for not trusting your "objective" eyes. Several commentators during and after the game said they thought Crabtree was pushing off. But I don't expect you to see more than one side of that play. As for the reasons people hate Ray Lewis, I was not being cryptic. I thought they were pretty well known. He is a shameless self-promoter, lots of people have problems with the way he talks about God and/or faith all the time, and...well, you can go look at the Deadspin Guide To Hating Ray Lewis if you want more. There are also lots of reasons to love Ray Lewis, but most people who hate him don't -- or only begrudgingly -- acknowledge many of those. Guess it's easy just to write off someone who disagrees with your opinion as a "hater." Not sure where I established my credentials on that front - you'd probably be surprised that I was rooting for the Ravens last night. Yes, I seriously dislike Ray Lewis because I think he is an absolute fraud - but I don't hate the whole team. I really like John Harbaugh, Ozzie Newsome and I honestly think the Ravens organization is a model NFL franchise. Can't stand Jim Harbaugh, either. I don't think there are many reasons to love Ray Lewis — can't think of one, actually. Unless you count his incredible performance on the field when he was still a top flight player, and that would provoke admiration more than love.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Feb 4, 2013 17:08:14 GMT -5
To get discussion back to the play on the field... Interesting take by Falcons fans: www.thefalcoholic.com/2013/2/4/3949526/49ers-ravens-falcons-pass-interferenceI thought the Crabtree play was worse, he was definitely held. It's possible that Bowman may have held White, but while there was a lot of contact I think it's more inconclusive. Nevertheless, it's tough to point at one tough call as the reason the Niners lost this one. Many missed opportunities: -Kap's errant pass/Crabtree's drop that forced us to settle for our opening field goal -James' fumble in the first half -Giving up big TD plays at the end of the first half and the start of the second -Settling for three after a big TO gave us a chance to tie the game -Missed two point conversion to tie game -Failing to give the ball to Frank Gore at all on four downs with five yards to go Young team, though, we'll be back. Kap will only get better and he will be fun to watch. Need some help in the secondary: Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and to an extent Aaron Rodgers really tore us apart. Interesting to see how we deal with Alex Smith in the off-season. I hope we can trade him and get some value in return. Smith was a great 49er and an all-around solid guy, never complained, would like to see him succeed elsewhere (just hopefully not against us). I can understand the Jim Harbaugh haters too. He's a fiery, emotional guy, and that drives him, but I get a little annoyed with the sideline temper tantrums too. Apparently he missed the losing coach press conference too, which isn't a very classy thing to do. He is the complete opposite of the other two coaches that I follow closely, JT3 and Bruce Bochy, who are most times very even keel. That said, he is who is, and he's a great coach that has taken us to, considering where we were two years ago, unprecedented heights in his first two years on the job. He won't change, but I hope he evolves. All in all, I'd say an exciting, memorable game, unfortunate to be on the losing side of it.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Feb 4, 2013 21:15:59 GMT -5
* Huge loophole in the rules exploited by the Ravens -- if you are going to take a safety, you can hold with impunity to keep from getting tackled, running off the clock. And they did. Very smart, but someone needs to think about that. An SF defender was through the line immediately, only to find himself wrapped up in a bearhug from behind that went on forever and also wasn't called. I have no doubt he would have taken down Koch, potentially giving the Niners one more play on offense.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Feb 4, 2013 21:20:52 GMT -5
Are there any worse crybabies than Jim Harbaugh and 49er fans? I am regretting that I rooted for them against the Packers and Falcons.
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