Two Harvard Hoops Players to Withdraw from school

[DanMcQ]

...leading scorer Kyle Casey and co-captain Brandyn Curry...

www.boston.com/sports/blogs/thebuzz/2012/09/report_harvard.html

[jgalt]

I am having more of a problem with the class than the alleged cheating right now. According to the Crimson, the class was graded only on 4 take home tests that sounded like a joke, the way a student interviewed described it. A student also complained that the Professor was rarely available outside of class and canceled his office hours right before the exam was due. That isnt the type of educational experience I think of when I think Harvard.

As for the cheating its self: when you give a take home exam, which is open book, you cant really expect people not to talk about it. All the take home tests I did a Gtown were made in such a way that talking to other students wouldnt really have helped. Of course I dont know in what way the tests were found to be the same, but more than half the students were found to be "cheating". Thats very fishy to me and seems to point more to failures of the test than of the students.

But I dont know all the detail, so these are just my first impressions. I guess good on Harvard to enforce its rules regardless of the students involved.

[strummer8526]

I had a high school physics teacher who swore that if you even asked a classmate "Hey, is X due tomorrow or Thursday?" that constituted "cheating" on the assignment. It made for some bizarre situations, not unlike this "half the class was cheating" story. I'd be very interested to find out what is being called "cheating" in this case.

Also, take home exams are ridiculous.

Also, cheating on an exam in "Introduction to Congress" should earn the students extra credit.

[AustinHoya03]

Sept 11, 2012 15:22:17 GMT -5 jgalt said:

As for the cheating its self: when you give a take home exam, which is open book, you cant really expect people not to talk about it.

Why? Take the exam to your dorm room or to the library and complete it. There is no need for other students to be involved, particularly if the professor has prohibited discussion.

Sept 11, 2012 16:10:47 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

Also, take home exams are ridiculous.

Come on now, be fair. All exams are ridiculous.

[jgalt]

Sept 11, 2012 16:30:48 GMT -5 AustinHoya03 said:

Sept 11, 2012 15:22:17 GMT -5 jgalt said:

As for the cheating its self: when you give a take home exam, which is open book, you cant really expect people not to talk about it.

Why? Take the exam to your dorm room or to the library and complete it. There is no need for other students to be involved, particularly if the professor has prohibited discussion.

Of course there is no reason students HAVE to talk to each other. Of course they CAN follow the rules. I just think those rules are unenforceable. When the exam isnt take home, students often collaborate while studying. That can produce the same results we have here where people's answers to essay questions are similar (like a lot of students have the same factors contributing to the civil war or something)

Now I am assuming that the similarities in these students tests was of the variety above where they all talked and identified the main themes that needed to be addressed in the answers. If, instead, they basically wrote the same answer and effectively plagiarized each other, then my opinion would be different.

[LizziebethHoya]

Some NYT article said that the students discussed the exam questions with the TAs and the TAs gave them answers.

It may technically be "cheating," but this seems more of a problem with the system/class itself. I'm having a hard time faulting the students here. But there may be more details to come.

[Nevada Hoya]

Don't talk to me about take home tests. In grad school on some of my take home tests you were expected to submit about 100 pages of work (time dependent quantum chemistry).
Due in three days.

[jgalt]

Sept 11, 2012 19:05:20 GMT -5 Nevada Hoya said:

Don't talk to me about take home tests. In grad school on some of my take home tests you were expected to submit about 100 pages of work (time dependent quantum chemistry).
Due in three days.

Well Im crossing that degree in time dependent quantum chemistry off my list then. Yeesh 100 pages

[DanMcQ]

www.boston.com/art/35/news/local/massachusetts/2012/09/11/harvard-hoops-star-other-athletes-leave-over-cheating-allegations/Ydwv6tsHQyKgbs84GSr6KK/story

[The players are not necessarily withdrawing because they are guilty. They are making a strategic decision, leaving before playing any games to ensure that they will have NCAA eligibility next year. If they were to stay and then be found guilty, they could be kicked out midseason, costing a full year of eligibility.

Other Harvard athletes who took last spring’s “Introduction to Congress” course — widely reputed to be an easy class compatible with intense sports schedules — are probably weighing the same scenarios.

As many as half of the 125 students now under scrutiny play varsity sports, according to a student athlete who is implicated, and who said he was basing his estimate on information from his resident dean.

“All the coaches are talking to their teams about it,” he told the Globe. “They’re on pins and needles.”

For his own part, he said he planned to stay on for the year and hoped to be exonerated.

The student athlete said he considered Casey a friend and was angry that Casey had become the first Harvard student involved in the cheating scandal to be publicly named in media reports, as Casey first was by SI.com on Tuesday.

Typically, investigations of academic misbehavior, like all other student disciplinary probes handled by Harvard’s Administrative Board, are kept confidential. But in August, Harvard took the unusual step of revealing its investigation to the media, worrying some implicated students who feared their identities would also become known.

“Look at Kyle — his name is national news. He doesn’t deserve that. He deserves the same confidentiality about an [Administrative] Board proceeding that every other student does,” his friend said, adding: “I hope people don’t look at this and presume guilt.”

Harvard football coach Tim Murphy said Tuesday that to the best of his knowledge, his “top 24 starters coming out of spring football are all healthy, in good academic standing, and ready to play on Saturday.” He added that he expected them to remain in good standing for the rest of the school year.

Three sources told the Globe that some of the football team’s 115 members are implicated in the investigation and that a few might leave school as a result.

Murphy declined to comment on that or to name students who might be involved, citing federal student privacy laws.

Further decisions to withdraw were probably made Tuesday, which was “Study Card Day,” the deadline by which Harvard students must officially commit to classes. Students who withdraw from school before Study Card Day can do so without paying any tuition for the semester, though after that they are on the hook for an amount that increases month to month. (No students are being threatened with expulsion; the maximum penalty is expected to be yearlong suspension.)

For many athletes under investigation, another deadline — the scheduled day of their first games — may be equally or more important.

“This has put athletes in a Catch-22. If you don’t withdraw before the season and then you’re forced to later in the year, you lose your eligibility. That’s a huge loss,” said an implicated student who knows many athletes facing that dilemma. “On the other hand, you don’t want to miss a season [if you don’t have to]."

[bmartin]

Harvard also requires that students have only 8 semesters on campus to complete their degrees so it is not an option to stay in school and wait to see how the matter will be resolved. It has become common for injured players to withdraw for a year rather than lose a year of athletic eligibility. The NCAA gives 5 years to play 4 but Harvard (and Princeton and Yale) do not allow students to spend 5 years on campus.

[Problem of Dog]

Sept 12, 2012 13:48:17 GMT -5 bmartin said:

Harvard also requires that students have only 8 semesters on campus to complete their degrees so it is not an option to stay in school and wait to see how the matter will be resolved. It has become common for injured players to withdraw for a year rather than lose a year of athletic eligibility. The NCAA gives 5 years to play 4 but Harvard (and Princeton and Yale) do not allow students to spend 5 years on campus.

Harvard has had football players withdraw for the spring semester in order to get their fifth year of football.

[CTHoya08]

Sept 12, 2012 13:52:10 GMT -5 Problem of Dog said:

Sept 12, 2012 13:48:17 GMT -5 bmartin said:

Harvard also requires that students have only 8 semesters on campus to complete their degrees so it is not an option to stay in school and wait to see how the matter will be resolved. It has become common for injured players to withdraw for a year rather than lose a year of athletic eligibility. The NCAA gives 5 years to play 4 but Harvard (and Princeton and Yale) do not allow students to spend 5 years on campus.

Harvard has had football players withdraw for the spring semester in order to get their fifth year of football.

Yale has done the same, or at least did with QB Alvin Cowan a few years ago.