The Dark Knight Rises

[jgalt]

Jul 21, 2012 14:21:49 GMT -5 kchoya said:

Jul 21, 2012 13:55:58 GMT -5 jgalt said:

Can we please not turn this into a discussion on gun laws? Make a new thread if you want to do that

Has anyone seen the movie?

Yeah I saw it last night. I loved The Dark Knight, but this film was not successful, in my opinion. The plot was...off? It just felt like a mess. The script and the action were not as tight as The Dark Knight. It was 2 hrs and 45mins so in that time you would expect a pretty deep involved, well developed plot, but that didnt materialize.

I am only familiar with Banes role in the batman comics (well in this thread of comics that the movies were based on), from what I have read on sites like Kotaku when it was first announced that bane was going to be the vilan. I thought he was a great foil for the Batman created in the Dark Knight, but I dont think he was used in the best way possible.

I could site specific examples of my problems with it, but I dont want to give it away for anyone who hasnt seen it. I would say, if you have been thinking of seeing it, see it. You may like it, I was disappointed.

[TBird41]

I'm going to post Spoilers










I liked DKR. I thought it wrapped up a lot of themes from the past two movies well. I liked the contrast between Bane and Batman, with one being the mirror of the other. The two fight scenes were ridiculously epic. Hardy was a complete bad-ass--his strut, his absolute confidence were absolutely perfect. He inhabited the character like Ledger did, only I think Bane is a more understated villain (personality wise, obviously he's huge), so he doesn't jump out at you like the Joker did. The walk up to the football field was sublime. And he did losing control really well also (punching the pillars at the end).

I'm not sure I liked the twist with Tate, but I also knew it was coming. I felt it diminished Bane, though if you look at them as partners rather than Bane as the second, that helps, I think. Additionally it was probably a little too much to have Bane actually break Batman's back and then have it heal in 5 months.

There were some things Nolan overlooked / some coincidences like in TDK (I'm still having a hard time accepting the Joker could pull off having the guy with the bomb in his stomach for example). Gordon-Levitt was really good as well. I'd go see movies with him as Batman (and I liked how they mixed Tim Drake and Jason Todd to get his character). Hathaway was good as Catwoman as well.

Finally, I think the TDKR really paid off the first two movies. It closed the loop on the League of Shadows. It showed how symbols can be used, both good and bad. It paid of the idea of "why do we fall" so well. From Modine to Batman to the police and Gordan-Levitt at the end, there was a lot of falling, but a lot of people getting back up again. And I liked how the movie finished the story of Bruce Wayne, giving him the ending he deserved and letting him earn passing the cowl. Though it would have been the greatest drop the mic moment ever if Nolan hadn't gone that way. Oh, you want to make another Batman movie? You can't. Boom.

[AustinHoya03]

**SPOILERS**

Jul 22, 2012 9:30:39 GMT -5 TBird41 said:

I'm not sure I liked the twist with Tate, but I also knew it was coming.

I didn't see the twist coming at all. My theory was that the detonation device had somehow been planted on Bruce Wayne, so that when he came back to save Gotham he would actually be ensuring its destruction.

I thought the movie was excellent, by the way. I did end up seeing it in IMAX, which was worth the extra cash.

[TBird41]

Jul 23, 2012 8:53:55 GMT -5 AustinHoya03 said:

**SPOILERS**

Jul 22, 2012 9:30:39 GMT -5 TBird41 said:

I'm not sure I liked the twist with Tate, but I also knew it was coming.

I didn't see the twist coming at all. My theory was that the detonation device had somehow been planted on Bruce Wayne, so that when he came back to save Gotham he would actually be ensuring its destruction.

I thought the movie was excellent, by the way. I did end up seeing it in IMAX, which was worth the extra cash.

Just to make myself clear, I knew it was coming because I had had it spoiled, not because I'm some kind of genius detective.

[SFHoya99]

***SPOILERS***





I liked TDKR quite a bit and was well worth the money, especially in an IMAX theater.

However, it ranks well behind the TDK for me and I really can't get behind those who feel it is something more than a superhero movie. I admire Nolan to attempting to take it elsewhere, but at the end, unlike something like Watchmen, he doesn't follow through and so the whole thing rings hollow for me.

Things I liked:

• The discussion of whether Batman is really needed. This is where I thought the story was going and it could be incredibly interesting. It ends up taking an easy way out to my point of view and attempting to dialogue an answer -- in the end we need Batman because of supernatural-esque enemies, so yeah, that's not real applicable to the real world, and no quick discussion of symbols can change that. However, until then, the discussions of heroes and their necessity is not one we see often -- we have a discussion of heroes in Watchmen but it's on different terms.
  
  
• Catwoman. An incredibly cheesy character was done very, very well. Kudos to the Nolans and Anne Hathaway.
  
  
• Integration with Batman Begins. As much as I think that movie is overrated, it was really nice to see come full circle and gave some depth to Batman as a character rather than just an archtype.
  
  
• Pacing and fillmaking. The movie never dragged for me and was really well done -- not sure when people thought it did as I've heard this criticism a lot.
  
  
• Gary Oldman, Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Both very good and some of the best parts of the movie.
  

Things that were, eh:

• Bane. Hey, he's big and strong and oh, yeah.
  
  
• The Miranda Tate thing. It was incredibly obvious to me (simply because she had no other role), but honestly, the parent revenge thing was whatever as a motivation and the execution was simply lame. Could have been executed better.
  
  
• Too much punching. TBird, you liked the fights, but I found them tedious. Lots of punching. Even worse, putting it on physical strength -- where it was obvious Bane was somehow supernaturally enhanced from their first fight -- made Batman lose his everymanness. Which again undermined the point.
  
  
• I think the ending of needing Batman as a superhero was a copout to the discussion. Or maybe a rather stupid ending if you are trying to have real-world applicability.
  [/list[
  
  I suspect that the end-ending could have killed Bruce Wayne -- the next Batman will like not be Christian Bale and they could continue in this universe with a replacement. But it might have been annoying in its attempt to be bittersweet.

[SFHoya99]

I also find it interesting that the fanboys of Alien tore apart the massive plot holes in Prometheus but the fanboys of Batman ignore them here.

I mean, really, a fusion bomb has been around since the 50s, but there's only one Russian scientist who knows how to make one?

[SDHoya]

I agree SF. I mean, Hines Ward returning a kick off for a TD? Ridiculous.

[jgalt]

Jul 23, 2012 11:18:38 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

I also find it interesting that the fanboys of Alien tore apart the massive plot holes in Prometheus but the fanboys of Batman ignore them here.

I mean, really, a fusion bomb has been around since the 50s, but there's only one Russian scientist who knows how to make one?

Man that bothered me so much.

I agree with the Prometheus stuff too. That plot was a total mess.

Someone above me said this already, but DKR felt like any other superhero movie.

[strummer8526]

I agree it felt like a superhero movie...just a really, really good one. And that's what I wanted. Frankly, I didn't want it to transcend the genre. I wanted it to be a great Batman movie, and it was. I'm not sure when the bar got moved and people decided it needed to be something more.

[Boz]

Went to see it last night. My thoughts: (yes, SPOILERS!)

• First of all, this probably goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway. Make sure you see this in IMAX or at the very least, in a new movie theater. I made the mistake of seeing this at The Uptown because all of the IMAX shows were sold out. I wanted to wait, but my friends had their heart set on going last night, so I went along, against my better judgment.
  
  Don't make my mistake. The Uptown is a beautiful theater, but I am not sure they have upgraded their sound system in the last 20 years. The picture was fine, even in non IMAX, but the sound was horrible. It was uneven throughout, and it made dialogue very difficult at times. This is not usually a problem when you can watch characters' mouths moving, but ummm...that doesn't really work with Bane.
  
  Anyway, I still enjoyed it very much, but I was distracted throughout the movie thinking how much more I would be enjoying it in an IMAX theater or even just a theater with an adequate sound system.
  
  What I didn't like (just to get these out of the way):
  
• OK, this movie was too long. Sorry, it just was. I know there have been comments about pacing above, but IMO, the entire "Batman in Exile/Gotham as Escape From New York Redux" segment dragged on way too long. I think the movie easily could have been cut by 20 minutes without losing anything.
  
  
• Matthew Modine: he's just plain horrible. Always has been. Always will be. Go wrestle Shute and get out of my movie.
  
  
• Having to look at Maggie Gyllenhall's face again. What, you couldn't find a photo of Katie Holmes anywhere?
  
  
• Major plot hole: tunnels. Yes, the bridges were all cut off and the one that wasn't was constantly monitored, but as Catwoman showed us at the end, no one was really watching the tunnels (and there had to be more than one if I am expected to believe that Gotham is modeled after NYC). I find it hard to believe that Seal Team 6 could not infiltrate Gotham via the tunnels (or hey! maybe even underwater, since they are uhhh, Seals after all) to try to re-take the city.
  
  If the movie addressed this in one of the scenes that was inaudible in The Uptown, I will happily stand corrected.
  
  
• Bruce Wayne's happy ending. It simply did not fit with the narrative. Not only of this movie, but of all three together. It was nice to see Alfred's dream come true, sure, but not at the expense of everything else that preceded the ending. I am really wondering if this was Nolan's idea, or whether he was pressured into not having Bruce Wayne die.
  
  
• As others have mentioned, the nuclear device circumstances were pretty suspect.
  
  Having said all of that, you might think I did not enjoy the movie. On the contrary, overall I thought is was very, very good. I just didn't like everything about it
  
  So here are some of the things I really did like:
  
  
• As others have mentioned, Nolan did a great job of tying together all of the movies, to make this a genuine trilogy, instead of just Batman, Batman II: Electric Boogaloo, and Batman III: Back To The Minors. The inclusion of Cillian Murphy verged on cheesy, but I think it contributed to the overall connection.
  
  
• While the Tate payoff was kind of hamhanded as far as twists go, I still liked it.
  
  
• The performance of pretty much every actor not named Matthew Modine. Even some of the minor characters, like Bane's 50-caliber wearing deputy (I forget his name); Franco from Rescue Me as ill-fated special forces Captain Jones; and Bruce Wayne's fellow prisoners; I thought they all did great jobs. And I am no Anne Hathaway fan, but she was very good as well.
  
  
• Most of the action scenes were very well done, either fighting, gun fighting or vehicle chases. In every action scene, you always have one or two "Really?" moments, but I thought they were few and far between here. (I kind of got upset that Batman didn't go on a couple of strafing runs in the Bat which would have bought him some time and saved countless police officers, but yes, I know, I know...he doesn't kill and doesn't use guns. Thought Anne Hathaway did a pretty good job of blowing that one up...pun intended).
  
  
• I know I mentioned the actors already, but I think special credit is due to Tom Hardy. He had the unenviable task of following what many considered to be the greatest performance ever by a Batman villain -- hell, any villain in any movie -- and he not only pulled it off, he may have equaled or even surpassed Ledger's Joker in some ways. Add to that the challenge of doing this while only being able to convey minimal facial expressions and I think it was simply an amazing performance.
  
  

Anyway, like I said, very good movie, but I think I'd like to see it again in a better theater. I know there were a few things I missed with the lousy sound.

[Boz]

Not to distract from any discussion of the movie itself, but I think Christian Bale should get some credit for doing a very, very good thing.

He could've very easily done nothing or just issued a statement or something like that.

I am not in the habit of holding up actors, musicians or athletes as role models for anything other than their skill at their profession.

But Bale sure seems like a pretty good guy in addition to his talent.

(Even the one time, during Terminator filming, he made news for acting like the stereotypical Hollywood jerk, he called himself out on it and issued a real and direct apology, not one of those "if I offended anyone" fake apologies).

[BubbleVisionBiff]

Jul 25, 2012 10:17:06 GMT -5 Boz said:

Not to distract from any discussion of the movie itself, but I think Christian Bale should get some credit for doing a very, very good thing.

He could've very easily done nothing or just issued a statement or something like that.

I am not in the habit of holding up actors, musicians or athletes as role models for anything other than their skill at their profession.

But Bale sure seems like a pretty good guy in addition to his talent.

(Even the one time, during Terminator filming, he made news for acting like the stereotypical Hollywood jerk, he called himself out on it and issued a real and direct apology, not one of those "if I offended anyone" fake apologies).

+1.

Also, a good friend is a First Asst. Director on a recently-finished TV show, and said that the cinematographer in the Terminator situation was out of line, for what it's worth.

[jgalt]

Here is a question that has a huge spoiler:





Did Bane die? I think he lives in the comics, right? But is he dead in the movie? I cant remember if they showed him actually dead after he was shot.