RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Mar 9, 2012 17:05:15 GMT -5
So you disagree with my analysis of the situation? If you hate me/what I say--that ignore button works fine. Just find it hilarious how many people get that upset at me but enjoy reading it so they can come at me/insult me. It's truly fun. I enjoy stirring it up and being the irritant for some of you guys and it's so EASY to upset you too. ;D For the record, RDF, this is the direct quote that led you to call me an old bastard. You: Loved Don Reid as well but for those old enough to remember--he would pick up fouls faster then I p-i-s-s people off. Me: Don't exaggerate." If that make you go off like you did, maybe you need to hit the ignore button. For the record, I do not dislike you. In fact I read what you say because you are very informed. You have a great deal to offer to this board. What I don't like is your seeming belief that you know more than anyone else (including the coaching staff) and anyone who does not agree with you does not know basketball. Ed--why do you think I put a smiley face at end of that? It was a joke.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 9, 2012 20:17:24 GMT -5
For the record, RDF, this is the direct quote that led you to call me an old bastard. You: Loved Don Reid as well but for those old enough to remember--he would pick up fouls faster then I p-i-s-s people off. Me: Don't exaggerate." If that make you go off like you did, maybe you need to hit the ignore button. For the record, I do not dislike you. In fact I read what you say because you are very informed. You have a great deal to offer to this board. What I don't like is your seeming belief that you know more than anyone else (including the coaching staff) and anyone who does not agree with you does not know basketball. Ed--why do you think I put a smiley face at end of that? It was a joke. Did you put a smiley face on the post when you called me an old bastard?
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,215
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 9, 2012 20:23:59 GMT -5
Actually, he did.
How about a truce?
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 9, 2012 20:29:49 GMT -5
I've got the fouling propensity of a young Don Reid--except all of my fouls are flagrant and with bounty intent. ;D Well played.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 9, 2012 20:39:31 GMT -5
So you disagree with my analysis of the situation? If you hate me/what I say--that ignore button works fine. Just find it hilarious how many people get that upset at me but enjoy reading it so they can come at me/insult me. It's truly fun. I enjoy stirring it up and being the irritant for some of you guys and it's so EASY to upset you too. ;D For the record, RDF, this is the direct quote that led you to call me an old bastard. You: Loved Don Reid as well but for those old enough to remember--he would pick up fouls faster then I p-i-s-s people off. Me: Don't exaggerate." If that make you go off like you did, maybe you need to hit the ignore button. For the record, I do not dislike you. In fact I read what you say because you are very informed. You have a great deal to offer to this board. What I don't like is your seeming belief that you know more than anyone else ( including especially the coaching staff) and anyone who does not agree with you does not know basketball. There. Fixed that for ya.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Mar 10, 2012 1:28:59 GMT -5
Chris Wright was an elite point guard recruit. He was a straight-ahead guy and not an ankle-breaker, and he was better at creating for himself than for his teammates, but he still was an elite pg recruit so it isn't true that the system scares away point guards.
I agree with the point that this team, like most every other basketball team, needs one or two quick ballhandlers who are hard for defenders to stay in front of. I disagree with the notion that guys like that would not fit or flourish in the offense or wouldn't be willing to play in it.
In the first place, the offense is designed for players who can make defenses help, double, and overplay, and then pass to the open man. Second, JTIII and the offense are very flexible to fit the personnel - inside, outside, dribble penetration, are emphasized as fits the skills of the players. Third, this offense is a great preparation for guards who want to play in the NBA and/or top European leagues. Read the critique of Ben Hansborough that I linked in the Hoyas in Europe thread. The German coach said BH only knew how to play with the ball driving off ball screens and never learned how to play off the ball. So they dumped him and kept Jon Wallace who knows how to play basketball with and without the ball.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Mar 10, 2012 11:32:41 GMT -5
Chris Wright was an elite point guard recruit. He was a straight-ahead guy and not an ankle-breaker, and he was better at creating for himself than for his teammates, but he still was an elite pg recruit so it isn't true that the system scares away point guards. I agree with the point that this team, like most every other basketball team, needs one or two quick ballhandlers who are hard for defenders to stay in front of. I disagree with the notion that guys like that would not fit or flourish in the offense or wouldn't be willing to play in it. In the first place, the offense is designed for players who can make defenses help, double, and overplay, and then pass to the open man. Second, JTIII and the offense are very flexible to fit the personnel - inside, outside, dribble penetration, are emphasized as fits the skills of the players. Third, this offense is a great preparation for guards who want to play in the NBA and/or top European leagues. Read the critique of Ben Hansborough that I linked in the Hoyas in Europe thread. The German coach said BH only knew how to play with the ball driving off ball screens and never learned how to play off the ball. So they dumped him and kept Jon Wallace who knows how to play basketball with and without the ball. Where is the dribble penetration in this offense? Who does it? Rarely do you see any Hoya guard drive and kick. If guards drive-it's almost always to attempt to score. It's not consistent either. You have better chance of seeing a Center like Henry do the guard duties then the actual guards. Which is great for bigs/frontcourt recruiting. I'm not understanding your point about Hansbrough/Wallace? Guard recruits dont' care about European Basketball-they know that if they want to continue playing ball--several avenues are there no matter how they play in college. They want to be able to know that your program produces guys who get looks/shots in NBA. Brandon Jennings didn't play much when he was in Europe and in NBA he's considered a good player and he dominates the ball. Wright wanted to go to Duke. He didn't fit their style of player--was too focused on getting his own and not running a team and wasn't a guy who was talented enough as a scorer to be a Jason Williams-last combo they had at PG. So he chose NCSU who ran Princeton. Then he chose Georgetown because they were winning and ran same system. I think he became a better player-but does he make an impression with any HS kids? Does his development help Hoyas with anyone? No--because he didn't get drafted. (I don't think that's correct way of thinking either, I think Wright improved as a player and improved in becoming a very solid PG). Perception is all that matters in recruiting--fair or not. If players think your offense isn't PG friendly--it's going to take someone coming in and being a surprise--and getting taken in NBA Draft, while winning games in March. That happens and guards will come--but to have that happen, III has to give in and let guards play with a bit more freedom and not be so set in type of guards he recruits. Nothing wrong with a guy who can handle the ball, is quick/fast/athletic, and might be a less appealing shooter.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 10, 2012 11:43:12 GMT -5
Also let me add that Wright ultimately ended up choosing Gtown when III''s run at Gtown was at its beginning stages. In other words recruits and coaches did not have as clear a view of the style of play the coach preferred. For all they knew back then III was playing the Princeton offense because it was not only what he knew but because the type of players he had were not highly regarded coming out of high school. But years later, after III has gotten McDAAs and yet still played the same style, recruits and coaches have formed a perception of they style they think III prefers. Recall all those recruits that chose III/Gu who claimed they liked to run? Not sure if III could get those dudes now because his teams, after 8 years, don't seem interested in running. And everyone knows that now.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Mar 10, 2012 12:26:54 GMT -5
Brandon Jennings is the kind of point guard who has a career putting up big numbers on losing teams. He has to have the ball all the time and he makes highlight plays but he doesn't make his team or his teammates better and other players who want the ball don't want to be on his team. I hate offenses where one player has the ball most of the time and everyone else's role is to set screens for him or clear out for him or rebound his misses.
Ashanti Cook would penetrate and pass. Jessie Sapp did. When opponents played man defense, driving to draw the defense and then passing to the open man has been a go-to play. It's why most teams zone.
The other point is that with Wright or with another fast ballhandler the team runs. There were some high scoring games in the past few years but to run you need to get stops and rebounds and that was a big problem last year.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Mar 10, 2012 12:57:54 GMT -5
Brandon Jennings is the kind of point guard who has a career putting up big numbers on losing teams. He has to have the ball all the time and he makes highlight plays but he doesn't make his team or his teammates better and other players who want the ball don't want to be on his team. I hate offenses where one player has the ball most of the time and everyone else's role is to set screens for him or clear out for him or rebound his misses. Ashanti Cook would penetrate and pass. Jessie Sapp did. When opponents played man defense, driving to draw the defense and then passing to the open man has been a go-to play. It's why most teams zone. The other point is that with Wright or with another fast ballhandler the team runs. There were some high scoring games in the past few years but to run you need to get stops and rebounds and that was a big problem last year. Completely agree with you about Jennings--you're preaching to choir here--just saying that a player like that holds more weight then Jon Wallace getting to play in Europe--and perception matters with these guys more then reality. Problem is--Hoyas reality is that they keep helping the perception as MCI pointed out. Again we agree about the team running (which was my argument about how they should play being a smaller team and instead Hoyas got caught with tweener roster--not big enough to do what III prefers, and played too slow to fit the smaller team they had, so halfcourt ball with small team) more with Wright but the problem was--III often let that happen when he had to--because they would be behind. I'd argue the best wins in III's tenure were when he allowed the team to play faster/with more tempo. Question I have-why don't they play with that urgency/tempo majority of the time? Not saying to run/fastbreak--talking about the urgency/pace and movement? Its when the sport in any offense is played best--when players make decisions and play--not when they are thinking about where to be on the court and running pattern. Sapp and Cook would at times--but was that staple of their game and would any HS point guard even know who they are? Think we agree a lot more then you think, but as MCI pointed out--you can't tell kids one thing, not do it--and I feel he was let down by his staff at time--Dave Cox was a disaster--and roster didn't fit what he preferred. It's his 8th year and to me it's obvious III prefers to operate with a system over being adaptable. He's recruited to his system (which they weren't with small ball) and gotten bigger players. The weakness is at the backcourt--being on defensive end/ballhandling and that's where he's got to be more flexible and not so rigid in who he targets and not afraid to pull trigger on guys (Christon) who aren't his preferred type of guard.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 10, 2012 13:12:53 GMT -5
For clarification, didn't Christon pop while we were still actively in the competition for Kyle Anderson? And Kyle didn't want to play with a PG, he wanted to be a team's PG. The idea that JT3 didn't recruit him or was "afraid to pull the trigger" seems to be writing the most negative history possible. JT3 *might* have been perfectly happy to have Semaj on the team but was unwilling to give him a 2012 scholarship till KA decided. If that's the case, that's a risk that may end up burning the team, but it also is a reasonable one to take and one that proves that Christon's ending up at Xavier is not conclusive proof that JT3 will not target or trigger athletic slashing guards.
I mean, Trawick's far more of a driver than a shooter and is a defensive presence. Jeremiah Rivers was supposed to be the defensive stopper.
i still hate this thread.
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KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
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Post by KirbyKeger on Mar 10, 2012 13:15:38 GMT -5
I think III will begin making the adjustment in the next few years. Last year, a glaring issue with our roster was its defense as a result of the small ball approach. So what did III do? He went out and recruited length like crazy. This year, our defense is among the best in the nation. Now, we have had serious issues in ballhandling against pressure and turning the ball over. I think we'll see III go after some more traditional point guards who truly value the ball. Will he be successful? Maybe, maybe not. I just don't think its fair to say that he doesn't adapt when it comes to recruiting.
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