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Post by williambraskyiii on Jun 6, 2014 8:45:12 GMT -5
Funny, not having read these posts yesterday, I had a conversation with a very knowledgable hoya fan independently regarding Cameron. His take is that Cameron will be a very good hoya when all is said and done and we both believe that he will benefit as much as anyone by having other offensive weapons on the floor with him. LY we were essentially playing 3 on 5 on offense and defenses cheated. He's going to get many more open looks this year and will be an important weapon for us. Defensively, I have a feeling we will be playing a lot of zone this year with both white and copeland anchoring it. I don't see too many scenarios where Reggie and Josh share the floor, bit if they do it's likely when we are in a zone and not playing man to man. I'm driving the Reggie Cameron bandwagon. Plenty of room for those that want to hop aboard. Kid is a pure shooter and is 6'7. We'll figure out a way to compensate for his relative lack of lateral quicks on D. He's going to see plenty of minutes in this upcoming season. Mark it down.
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Post by matersammich on Jun 6, 2014 8:54:13 GMT -5
Funny, not having read these posts yesterday, I had a conversation with a very knowledgable hoya fan independently regarding Cameron. His take is that Cameron will be a very good hoya when all is said and done and we both believe that he will benefit as much as anyone by having other offensive weapons on the floor with him. LY we were essentially playing 3 on 5 on offense and defenses cheated. He's going to get many more open looks this year and will be an important weapon for us. Defensively, I have a feeling we will be playing a lot of zone this year with both white and copeland anchoring it. I don't see too many scenarios where Reggie and Josh share the floor, bit if they do it's likely when we are in a zone and not playing man to man. I'm driving the Reggie Cameron bandwagon. Plenty of room for those that want to hop aboard. Kid is a pure shooter and is 6'7. We'll figure out a way to compensate for his relative lack of lateral quicks on D. He's going to see plenty of minutes in this upcoming season. Mark it down. I'm on board. I think he's going to turn into an incredibly valuable 6th man.
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rpn6
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Post by rpn6 on Jun 6, 2014 9:05:25 GMT -5
I heard that LJ Peak guy is pretty good at basketball.....
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jun 6, 2014 9:09:57 GMT -5
I'm driving the Reggie Cameron bandwagon. Plenty of room for those that want to hop aboard. Kid is a pure shooter and is 6'7. We'll figure out a way to compensate for his relative lack of lateral quicks on D. He's going to see plenty of minutes in this upcoming season. Mark it down. I'm on board. I think he's going to turn into an incredibly valuable 6th man. I'm thinking he's going to turn into our version of Luke Hancock from L'Ville. Really excited to have a knock down 6'7 shooter on the team
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 6, 2014 9:32:09 GMT -5
Bottom line is that defenses will have to step out and guard Cameron ...creating space for our bigs down low and driving lanes for peak and bowan. More over, Cameron along with paul white will be our best players at making the entry pass into the post....something we haven't been great at in recent years. With the weapons we now have on the arsenal, we will have multiple options on offense and defense...but let's not start discounting what Cameron can add to the team.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jun 6, 2014 10:37:26 GMT -5
I heard that LJ Peak guy is pretty good at basketball..... Been getting scrimmage reports???
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 6, 2014 10:58:13 GMT -5
LOL, thank you Tashoya. I am not saying that Rock should have his head examined or anything like that since I do not know him personally. However, basketball-wise and Hoya-wise, he needs to have his basketball head examined. Josh and Reggie as the main combo on the floor defensively in a game is a recipe for disaster. Reggie, defensively, has been somewhat of a disappointment as far as I am concerned. As far as his heralded 3 point shooting goes, he needs to build up his confidence so that he can be more consistent. The stroke is there, hopefully, the follow-through will come this year. Love Reggie, though! Just can't wait for him to put it all together. As far as our boy, Josh--well, let's just say that Josh is not the most agile center in the world. With Josh out there we better pray the opposing team does not go to a small line up; that would leave Josh flat footed and frustrated, even at 300 pounds. Rock, you are a good trooper. It's time to raise the white flag, buddy. MGS, I don't disagree with anything you said. However, imagine if rock ends up being right and Josh and Cameron both improve THAT much that they can be a viable option on the floor? I have zero expectation of that being the case but, if it were, that would mean that this squad is really, really good. EDIT: MGS, I was wrong.... I do disagree on one thing. Josh was really surprisingly agile at 350 (whatever his real weight was... 350 seemed a little low early and a little high late). I can't judge his quickness at all until I see him at fighting weight. At 300, he could surprise me as much with his speed as he did with his agility at 350. I only hope we all get to find out. If he comes in at 280, I'm throwing a party for any and all that want to come. Much respect to all! I truly believe that what undergirds all of our strongly worded opinions that decorate this board is a strong desire to see the team do well year in and year out. Just one last point, Tashoya, if Josh comes in at 280, I will come to your party right after I finish dancing on the ceiling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 11:10:55 GMT -5
LOL, thank you Tashoya. I am not saying that Rock should have his head examined or anything like that since I do not know him personally. However, basketball-wise and Hoya-wise, he needs to have his basketball head examined. Josh and Reggie as the main combo on the floor defensively in a game is a recipe for disaster. Reggie, defensively, has been somewhat of a disappointment as far as I am concerned. As far as his heralded 3 point shooting goes, he needs to build up his confidence so that he can be more consistent. The stroke is there, hopefully, the follow-through will come this year. Love Reggie, though! Just can't wait for him to put it all together. As far as our boy, Josh--well, let's just say that Josh is not the most agile center in the world. With Josh out there we better pray the opposing team does not go to a small line up; that would leave Josh flat footed and frustrated, even at 300 pounds. Rock, you are a good trooper. It's time to raise the white flag, buddy. I don't really care what you guys think, tbh. And I don't mean that from a rude place, but there are a large amount of fair weathers on this board that like to highlight deficiencies and criticize as many parts of a players game as possible, then when they start putting it together they act like they've been fans all along. To say Reggie was pretty bad at shooting is a bit much, you have to look at his shooting performances in context, and then if you're evaluating his potential impact next year based of his first year you have to take Into consideration the amount of minutes he actually played that season (not many) and realize how in-game reps can affect your development as a player. There's a bigger picture. Sorry I'm not sorry to want and write off two players after barely playing a year in our system, but everyone chooses to ignore the fact that players improve. Then the same group of posters rave about how good our player development can be....smh. And it's not like it's some big secret Josh has been slimming down, he has. God forbid I actually put my faith into III's plans to have him back over some random poster who doesn't know the difference between pure vert and leaping ability, or the poster that pretends to know what a player/person is capable of. I'd rather give our Hoyas the benefit of the doubt. Not every player is going to come out the gates hot, and it's okay if they don't. One year does not make a basketball career. Who wrote any of those guys off? I think both are important pieces. Again you continue to draw a lot of conclusions from 1-2 sentences about lineups… As for what we’ve seen not being indicative of the future? Trajectories can change of course but when I wrote on Reggie in HS I said great shooter, don’t know who he’ll guard. III said before the season “Great shooter don’t know who he’ll guard”. It’s not him understanding our "defensive scheme” it’s him not having the foot speed and athleticism to stay in front. Does not mean he is not an asset especially considering he has a plus skill “shooting” that we need. Howland said the same thing about Kyle Anderson and he’s a 1st rounder
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 6, 2014 11:25:49 GMT -5
I don't really care what you guys think, tbh. And I don't mean that from a rude place, but there are a large amount of fair weathers on this board that like to highlight deficiencies and criticize as many parts of a players game as possible, then when they start putting it together they act like they've been fans all along. To say Reggie was pretty bad at shooting is a bit much, you have to look at his shooting performances in context, and then if you're evaluating his potential impact next year based of his first year you have to take Into consideration the amount of minutes he actually played that season (not many) and realize how in-game reps can affect your development as a player. There's a bigger picture. Sorry I'm not sorry to want and write off two players after barely playing a year in our system, but everyone chooses to ignore the fact that players improve. Then the same group of posters rave about how good our player development can be....smh. And it's not like it's some big secret Josh has been slimming down, he has. God forbid I actually put my faith into III's plans to have him back over some random poster who doesn't know the difference between pure vert and leaping ability, or the poster that pretends to know what a player/person is capable of. I'd rather give our Hoyas the benefit of the doubt. Not every player is going to come out the gates hot, and it's okay if they don't. One year does not make a basketball career. Who wrote any of those guys off? I think both are important pieces. Again you continue to draw a lot of conclusions from 1-2 sentences about lineups… So you're saying that you think we can have effective lineups with both Reggie and Josh on the floor? You see, you keep deflecting to semantics instead of adding to the basketball discussion. I offered up my opinion and supporting thoughts for why I thought your reasoning was faulty. See the bigger picture.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 11:30:26 GMT -5
Who wrote any of those guys off? I think both are important pieces. Again you continue to draw a lot of conclusions from 1-2 sentences about lineups… So you're saying that you think we can have effective lineups with both Reggie and Josh on the floor? You see, you keep deflecting to semantics instead of adding to the basketball discussion. I offered up my opinion and supporting thoughts for why I thought your reasoning was faulty. See the bigger picture. When did I say they couldn’t? I said “Limit” So yes of course they can be effective in spurts but a smart coach would limit that… Again not a foreign concept and not hard to do.. Coaches at this level are smart enough to exploit any weakness and if you have two slow footed players get them on the perimeter isolate them on one side and PNR to death.. You can play zone to minimize but eventually as III says it comes down to guarding the guy in front of you.. BOTH have really struggled in this area
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 6, 2014 11:37:38 GMT -5
So you're saying that you think we can have effective lineups with both Reggie and Josh on the floor? You see, you keep deflecting to semantics instead of adding to the basketball discussion. I offered up my opinion and supporting thoughts for why I thought your reasoning was faulty. See the bigger picture. When did I say they couldn’t I said “Limit” So yes of course they can be effective in spurts but a smart coach would limit that… Again not a foreign concept and not hard to do.. Coaches at this level are smart enough to exploit any weakness and if you have two slow footed players on the perimeter isolate them on one side and PNR to death.. You can play zone to minimize but eventually as III says it comes down to guarding the guy in front of you.. BOTH have really struggled in this area I just think you're selling them short, that's all. But that's just what I think, don't get mad at me for disagreeing with you. You still continue to (conveniently?) ignore all the other variables in the equation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 11:44:35 GMT -5
When did I say they couldn’t I said “Limit” So yes of course they can be effective in spurts but a smart coach would limit that… Again not a foreign concept and not hard to do.. Coaches at this level are smart enough to exploit any weakness and if you have two slow footed players on the perimeter isolate them on one side and PNR to death.. You can play zone to minimize but eventually as III says it comes down to guarding the guy in front of you.. BOTH have really struggled in this area I just think you're selling them short, that's all. But that's just what I think, don't get mad at me for disagreeing with you. You still continue to (conveniently?) ignore all the other variables in the equation. Mad? Not even bro.. You might be right I might be right matters little to me. I just don’t appreciate being told to shut up. Feel free to disagree with me whenever you want after all it’s a message board. As for the other parts of your argument. No I’m not, but it doesn’t matter if you score on one end if you give it right back on the other…. Putting Reggie in the game doesn’t stop teams from doubling off Mikael or Tray as they did last year and it totally ignores the fact that IKE and Paul are both good enough shooters to keep teams honest.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 6, 2014 11:56:30 GMT -5
I just think you're selling them short, that's all. But that's just what I think, don't get mad at me for disagreeing with you. You still continue to (conveniently?) ignore all the other variables in the equation. Mad? Not even bro.. You might be right I might be right matters little to me. I just don’t appreciate being told to shut up. Feel free to disagree with me whenever you want after all it’s a message board. As for the other parts of your argument. No I’m not, but it doesn’t matter if you score on one end if you give it right back on the other…. Putting Reggie in the game doesn’t stop teams from doubling off Mikael or Tray as they did last year and it totally ignores the fact that IKE and Paul are both good enough shooters to keep teams honest. Fair...I was being reactionary and didn't realize I was being so rude. I just thought it was an argument that needed a little more support. But I wasn't referring strictly to the offense-defense trade offs, there's more to it than just that. Slow-footed ness doesn't automatically mean bad defender, though it usually does. Also, it may not be the reason for a player's defensive deficiencies, there are many more factors to take into account for being a good defender. Communication, understanding schemes, understanding angles, not using your hands (looking at you Jabril), using your weight, understanding mismatches and where the help is, knowing leverages, etc. just wanted to make the point that they are smart basketball players that have had to play with physical limitations for a while, I'm confident they'll figure it out. If they don't they simply won't play as much, but that doesn't mean that they can't see the floor together for long stretches. As much as Josh struggles defensively with his conditioning, it's tiring for a post player to have to battle him on every possession on either end of the court. Reggie can use some of his length to compensate for his lack of lateral quickness. By the way, does anyone know where I can find individual defensive efficiency ratings? Can't seem to locate the link
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rpn6
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Post by rpn6 on Jun 6, 2014 12:20:35 GMT -5
I heard that LJ Peak guy is pretty good at basketball..... Been getting scrimmage reports??? No just tired of coming to recruiting board to read arguments over things not related to that player
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 6, 2014 12:35:21 GMT -5
Been getting scrimmage reports??? No just tired of coming to recruiting board to read arguments over things not related to that player ^^well to actually add to the discussion I think Peak will be a very valuable addition to our guard depth because he knows he'll have to complete on defense to earn himself minutes over Jabril or Aaron. He's already more offensively advanced than both of them and lucky for him he also has a college ready body. He also has got vision and knows how to be unselfish. If he can play good defensive without fouling it will be hard for III to keep him from being a 20-25 min guy for long. Taking into account what III has shown he values, in the past, I wouldn't be surprised to see a starting day lineup of DSR, Jabril, Aaron, Mikael, and Josh with White, Peak, and Reggie as the first off the bench. I'm confident one or possibly two of the freshman can crack the starting rotation by conference play, but in the end it doesn't really matter who starts. We have A LOT of talented pieces that can be Mixed and matched in many different ways. I expect practice to be very competitive this fall.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 17:46:50 GMT -5
Mad? Not even bro.. You might be right I might be right matters little to me. I just don’t appreciate being told to shut up. Feel free to disagree with me whenever you want after all it’s a message board. As for the other parts of your argument. No I’m not, but it doesn’t matter if you score on one end if you give it right back on the other…. Putting Reggie in the game doesn’t stop teams from doubling off Mikael or Tray as they did last year and it totally ignores the fact that IKE and Paul are both good enough shooters to keep teams honest. Fair...I was being reactionary and didn't realize I was being so rude. I just thought it was an argument that needed a little more support. But I wasn't referring strictly to the offense-defense trade offs, there's more to it than just that. Slow-footed ness doesn't automatically mean bad defender, though it usually does. Also, it may not be the reason for a player's defensive deficiencies, there are many more factors to take into account for being a good defender. Communication, understanding schemes, understanding angles, not using your hands (looking at you Jabril), using your weight, understanding mismatches and where the help is, knowing leverages, etc. just wanted to make the point that they are smart basketball players that have had to play with physical limitations for a while, I'm confident they'll figure it out. If they don't they simply won't play as much, but that doesn't mean that they can't see the floor together for long stretches. As much as Josh struggles defensively with his conditioning, it's tiring for a post player to have to battle him on every possession on either end of the court. Reggie can use some of his length to compensate for his lack of lateral quickness. By the way, does anyone know where I can find individual defensive efficiency ratings? Can't seem to locate the link Think you can look on Statsheet for those ratings… I agree with a lot of that and have said as much in the past but sometimes it does come down to taking on the challenge guarding the guy in front of you.
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Talos
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Post by Talos on Jun 7, 2014 11:00:09 GMT -5
Not sure why posters are jumping on Yaboy for making a simple observation about Cameron. I didn't think he was discounting or downplaying Cameron's ability to contribute, just being honest about his serious limitations on the defensive end. Even watching through blue and gray colored glasses, most fans can see that Cameron is very slow and unathletic, and couldn't stay in front of anyone on defense. Having watched a couple of his HS games, he had the same defensive problems in HS. Even JTIII has publicly commented on his defensive struggles. That being said, I love having a 6'7" three point shooter on the team and think he's going to be a very valuable 4 year contributor. I think he will be most effective if he's surrounded by 4 other long athletic players on the court.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 7, 2014 11:30:36 GMT -5
Not sure why posters are jumping on Yaboy for making a simple observation about Cameron. I didn't think he was discounting or downplaying Cameron's ability to contribute, just being honest about his serious limitations on the defensive end. Even watching through blue and gray colored glasses, most fans can see that Cameron is very slow and unathletic, and couldn't stay in front of anyone on defense. Having watched a couple of his HS games, he had the same defensive problems in HS. Even JTIII has publicly commented on his defensive struggles. That being said, I love having a 6'7" three point shooter on the team and think he's going to be a very valuable 4 year contributor. I think he will be most effective if he's surrounded by 4 other long athletic players on the court. I agree, but "being honest" is subjective. It's not necessarily an absolute truth, that's why it's a topic that could be open to further analysis.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 7, 2014 19:29:32 GMT -5
Not sure why posters are jumping on Yaboy for making a simple observation about Cameron. I didn't think he was discounting or downplaying Cameron's ability to contribute, just being honest about his serious limitations on the defensive end. Even watching through blue and gray colored glasses, most fans can see that Cameron is very slow and unathletic, and couldn't stay in front of anyone on defense. Having watched a couple of his HS games, he had the same defensive problems in HS. Even JTIII has publicly commented on his defensive struggles. That being said, I love having a 6'7" three point shooter on the team and think he's going to be a very valuable 4 year contributor. I think he will be most effective if he's surrounded by 4 other long athletic players on the court. No one was writing off Cameron and no one said he couldn't improve. They were being honest about his limitations that were on display last year and that isn't all that subjective. We can differ in opinions on how he'll progress. Though, again, no one said they didn't expect him to improve or even be a really important part of the team. But what we've seen is in the can and he was below average on defense and he didn't shoot as well as he was billed to be able to shoot. That's done. Over. It's also not really debatable that last year's version of Josh and Reggie on the floor is not an ideal mix. That's not to say that that can't change. That's another area where Josh being ineligible really hurts... his development in games with all of the other guys and different lineups. Guys make jumps and hopefully that's the case with all of the guys. Not just Reggie and Josh. Every bit helps and we all want to see this group win. We all want them to be successful. Saying that a guy has areas to improve isn't ripping the kid. It's just an evaluation. Behind that, from a fan's perspective, is always the hope that the guys do improve and progress. In any event, I'm always excited to see all of the guys come back and to see how they've changed and improved. Hopefully Reggie has found his confidence and his stroke. That's something this team, or any team, could always use. A 6'7" knockdown shooter? YES, PLEASE!
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 7, 2014 21:54:13 GMT -5
Not sure why posters are jumping on Yaboy for making a simple observation about Cameron. I didn't think he was discounting or downplaying Cameron's ability to contribute, just being honest about his serious limitations on the defensive end. Even watching through blue and gray colored glasses, most fans can see that Cameron is very slow and unathletic, and couldn't stay in front of anyone on defense. Having watched a couple of his HS games, he had the same defensive problems in HS. Even JTIII has publicly commented on his defensive struggles. That being said, I love having a 6'7" three point shooter on the team and think he's going to be a very valuable 4 year contributor. I think he will be most effective if he's surrounded by 4 other long athletic players on the court. No one was writing off Cameron and no one said he couldn't improve. They were being honest about his limitations that were on display last year and that isn't all that subjective. We can differ in opinions on how he'll progress. Though, again, no one said they didn't expect him to improve or even be a really important part of the team. But what we've seen is in the can and he was below average on defense and he didn't shoot as well as he was billed to be able to shoot. That's done. Over. It's also not really debatable that last year's version of Josh and Reggie on the floor is not an ideal mix. That's not to say that that can't change. That's another area where Josh being ineligible really hurts... his development in games with all of the other guys and different lineups. Guys make jumps and hopefully that's the case with all of the guys. Not just Reggie and Josh. Every bit helps and we all want to see this group win. We all want them to be successful. Saying that a guy has areas to improve isn't ripping the kid. It's just an evaluation. Behind that, from a fan's perspective, is always the hope that the guys do improve and progress. In any event, I'm always excited to see all of the guys come back and to see how they've changed and improved. Hopefully Reggie has found his confidence and his stroke. That's something this team, or any team, could always use. A 6'7" knockdown shooter? YES, PLEASE! AMEN!
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