EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 21, 2011 9:35:09 GMT -5
With all the outrage being expressed about the abuse of young people at Penn State and, perhaps, Syracuse, I’m going to offer a future prediction and that is that, in the lifetime of at least some of the younger HoyaTalk members, sex between youth and adults will be seen as just another acceptable lifestyle.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Nov 21, 2011 9:38:50 GMT -5
I see what you're doing here. Clever.
Except your analogy is inapposite. Child abuse is like rape. It's never consensual on one side. That's what makes it so abhorrent.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 21, 2011 10:29:17 GMT -5
I see what you're doing here. Clever. Except your analogy is inapposite. Child abuse is like rape. It's never consensual on one side. That's what makes it so abhorrent. Doug Hutchinson would disagree.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Nov 21, 2011 11:05:03 GMT -5
I'm sure you do think this. Now that we're a little further down the slippery slope of two consenting adults who love one another being able to enjoy the legal privileges enjoyed by other consenting adults, rampant child sex abuse is inevitable.
Can you point to a single instance where the legal response to instances of pedophilia has been remotely lessened? The penalties and enforcement have been getting stronger for years. And the moral outrage whenever these things happen is as loud as ever. At least outside the catholic church.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 21, 2011 11:28:57 GMT -5
Can you point to a single instance where the legal response to instances of pedophilia has been remotely lessened? The penalties and enforcement have been getting stronger for years. And the moral outrage whenever these things happen is as loud as ever. At least outside the catholic church. This. If anything EasyEd's generation was the generation that was willing to look past horrible cases of child abuse in every case to protect themselves or an institution, whether it be the Church or Penn State.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Nov 21, 2011 12:58:25 GMT -5
Can you point to a single instance where the legal response to instances of pedophilia has been remotely lessened? The penalties and enforcement have been getting stronger for years. And the moral outrage whenever these things happen is as loud as ever. At least outside the catholic church. This. If anything EasyEd's generation was the generation that was willing to look past horrible cases of child abuse in every case to protect themselves or an institution, whether it be the Church or Penn State. Can't even remotely agree with what Ed is saying / trying to say with that post, but your response is equally idiotic. So we have gone from the Greatest Generation to the Enabling Child Abuse Generation. Way to indict a generation. Genius.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 21, 2011 13:03:05 GMT -5
Can you point to a single instance where the legal response to instances of pedophilia has been remotely lessened? The penalties and enforcement have been getting stronger for years. And the moral outrage whenever these things happen is as loud as ever. At least outside the catholic church. This. If anything EasyEd's generation was the generation that was willing to look past horrible cases of child abuse in every case to protect themselves or an institution, whether it be the Church or Penn State. My generation is more than willing to castrate these offenders.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 21, 2011 13:10:30 GMT -5
[peeks inside thread to see what is being discussed]
"Oh, boy. Uh-uh. No freakin' way."
[runssprints away]
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 21, 2011 13:14:15 GMT -5
Can't even remotely agree with what Ed is saying / trying to say with that post, but your response is equally idiotic. So we have gone from the Greatest Generation to the Enabling Child Abuse Generation. Way to indict a generation. Genius. I'll split the difference with you - how about the Greatest Enabling Child Abuse Generation?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 21, 2011 13:15:54 GMT -5
Can't even remotely agree with what Ed is saying / trying to say with that post, but your response is equally idiotic. So we have gone from the Greatest Generation to the Enabling Child Abuse Generation. Way to indict a generation. Genius. I'll split the difference with you - how about the Greatest Enabling Child Abuse Generation? Do you think that child abuse was better (for lack of more good term) before that generation? I'd submit that it was probably always bad/horrible/awful and only now coming to light and being exposed.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 21, 2011 13:22:58 GMT -5
Do you think that child abuse was better (for lack of more good term) before that generation? I'd submit that it was probably always bad/horrible/awful and only now coming to light and being exposed. If it's unclear, I'll get back to Tom Brokaw and let him know that we need to do a bit more branding work with it before his next book comes out of stealth mode.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Nov 21, 2011 13:45:02 GMT -5
I'll split the difference with you - how about the Greatest Enabling Child Abuse Generation? Do you think that child abuse was better (for lack of more good term) before that generation? I'd submit that it was probably always bad/horrible/awful and only now coming to light and being exposed. Yeah, but is's only being exposed now because of the heroic younger generation. Don't you know that an entire generation just sat back and watched abuse happen out of abject self-interest? They can't die off soon enough.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 21, 2011 14:26:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but is's only being exposed now because of the heroic younger generation. Don't you know that an entire generation just sat back and watched abuse happen out of abject self-interest? They can't die off soon enough. In all seriousness, you don't see any amount of generational change in the willingness to believe a victim over a person in a position of leadership? For instance, I cannot see a letter like this written today : www.bishop-accountability.org/ma-boston/archives/PatternAndPractice/0320-1979-08-17-Delaney.pdf
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 21, 2011 15:30:02 GMT -5
This has to be a joke, right?
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Nov 21, 2011 15:54:41 GMT -5
Yeah, but is's only being exposed now because of the heroic younger generation. Don't you know that an entire generation just sat back and watched abuse happen out of abject self-interest? They can't die off soon enough. In all seriousness, you don't see any amount of generational change in the willingness to believe a victim over a person in a position of leadership? For instance, I cannot see a letter like this written today : www.bishop-accountability.org/ma-boston/archives/PatternAndPractice/0320-1979-08-17-Delaney.pdfWell, it might be written, but now the letter would somehow make it out to the public and the writer would be justifiably excoriated. But I don’t see what that has to do with your original post. Besides, your original post wasn’t just about a willingness to believe a victim over a person in a position of leadership, it was about an entire generation being willing to look past horrible cases of child abuse in every case to protect themselves or an institution.Sure, people nowadays are more willing to challenge authority for any number of reasons (and, fortunately, a by-product of that is that cases of abuse are no longer able to remain secret and compartmentalized). But, unlike you, I don’t think one of the reasons is because an entire generation was less interested in protecting innocent children and was willing to look away to protect themselves or an institution. So what’s the cut-off? I guess if you were in the WWII Generation or the Boomer Generation you were morally bankrupt and OK with the abuse of children, but all of a sudden, this great tide of morality washed across the earth and the later generations were chastened, becoming less self-interested and ready to stand up for innocent children?
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 21, 2011 16:34:54 GMT -5
So what’s the cut-off? I guess if you were in the WWII Generation or the Boomer Generation you were morally bankrupt and OK with the abuse of children, but all of a sudden, this great tide of morality washed across the earth and the later generations were chastened, becoming less self-interested and ready to stand up for innocent children? My point originally was that Paterno, the Catholic Bishops, and most of the bad actors in these scandals were of Ed's generation or the boomers - meanwhile he's arguing for an apocalyptic future of NAMBLA acceptance because of support for marriage equality among Gen-X and the millenials. Then you called my point idiotic, so I just went with your hyperbole about the generational relabeling. Sorry that that got confused.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Nov 21, 2011 17:26:48 GMT -5
With all the outrage being expressed about the abuse of young people at Penn State and, perhaps, Syracuse, I’m going to offer a future prediction and that is that, in the lifetime of at least some of the younger HoyaTalk members, sex between youth and adults will be seen as just another acceptable lifestyle. Shorter Ed: I can't boot stomp faggots anymore. This is the fault of you damn kids!
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 21, 2011 19:51:44 GMT -5
This has to be a joke, right? At the time I entered Georgetown, had someone said that, in my lifetime, shacking up and gay marriages would be accepted as only alternate lifestyles and abortion would have been considered to be a right guaranteed by the Constitution, that generation would have shouted "this has to be a joke, right?" All it took was an advocacy, aided by support from the media and politicians, to bring about these changes. We have the beginnings of such an advocacy in the North American Man/Love Association (currently a fringe group) and we have a children's rights group in the Children's Defense Fund (of which Hillary Clinton was a key player). All you would need is smartly to pool these together in the future, calling for an end to discrimination against children in their "right" to engage in sex activity of their choice. Many will say this is far-fetched. My generation would have said the same thing, only to be proven wrong. It's impossible for you to predict what the generation after you will do but one thing is certain: you will be surprised.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Nov 21, 2011 20:40:53 GMT -5
Interesting you make these generationally critical posts on the same day one of America's all-time child rape enablers and a man two months younger than you was back in the news for still being in a position of power within the Church.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 21, 2011 20:56:19 GMT -5
I see what ed's doing here, but that doesn't mean his prediction is all the crazy. The idea of age of consent being late teens is fairly new in the US and it is still early teens in several industrialized countries. That it could snap back the other way here when we seek everything from voting rights to the death penalty for 12-13 year olds and will sue a first grader for sexual harrasment for kissing a girl on the cheek isn't that nuts.
So I get that ed is making an argument about moral leniency and I don't necessarily agree in the argument for the "good old days" but that doesn't really mean that at a fundamental level, ed's prediction can be completely dismissed.
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