Some one finally Gets it Re: The Split

[hoyarooter]

I think leaving 5 teams home is a political non-starter. What you would have is

Tuesday
8-17
9-16
10-15
11-14
12-13

Wednesday
8-17/9-16 winners
10-15 winner vs. 7
11-14 winner vs. 6
12-13 winner vs. 5

1-4 get a double bye to Thursday.

It might be possible to leave the last place team home so as to avoid the 5 games in a day scenario, but my guess is, that would be the only omission considered.

[RBHoya]

Yea, it seems like at this point leaving anybody home is probably not going to work with the coaches, so they'll find some way to squeeze in 17, but it's ugly. I actually think leaving 5 home is better than leaving 1 home. Because if there's just 1 team that doesn't make it, unless maybe that coach is in his first year, he's getting fired. If 5 teams stay home, that's more than 25% of the league that doesn't get to go, so it's not as much of an insult.

But yea, I think the coaches are going to make sure nobody gets left out. The coaches at the traditionally weaker schools like PC, SHU, USF etc are all going to support a 17 team tournament because it gives their squads a chance and "We didn't even make the BE Tournament!" can't be used against them. Then the Calhouns and the Boeheims of the world support a 17 team tournament because they don't want the coaches at the bottom of the league to get fired either. They want the crappy teams to continue sucking, rather than firing an ineffective head coach and bringing in somebody who can turn it around (example St. Johns).

[HoyaSinceBirth]

www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/15250032/when-it-comes-to-big-east-expansion-less-is-more

eye-on-college-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/30152572

[hoyasaxa2003]

HoyaSinceBirth, those are interesting links. Here is the list of Big East basketball profit by team. As you'll see, Georgetown's overall profit puts them at 6 of 16, which actually better than I might have guessed.

Here is how the basketball profits line up in the Big East teams:

Louisville: $16,800,234
Syracuse: $10,223,094
Pittsburgh: $7,071,125
West Virginia: $6,928,893
Marquette: $5,692,445
Georgetown: $2,681,384
Providence: $1,763,976
Villanova: $1,535,449
USF: $1,373,203
Cincinnati: $1,173,694
Connecticut: $804,242
Rutgers: $138,879
Depaul: $0
Seton Hall: $0
St. John's: $0
Notre Dame: -$9,097

[HometownHoya]

Interesting list there hoyasaxa2003. How is it that Louisvile was able to make so much? Crazy how much the drop is from 5. Marquette to us, then from us to 7. Providence.

[SFHoya99]

Louisville - 20,000-person brand new stadium that they charge a lot for and sell out constantly? It's not hard when you're the only game in town in a basketball-mad state.

[RBHoya]

They also had to sell their souls and play in a building called "The KFC Yum Center".

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jun 21, 2011 10:58:11 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Louisville - 20,000-person brand new stadium that they charge a lot for and sell out constantly? It's not hard when you're the only game in town in a basketball-mad state.

SFHoya 99, the statistics above are for the 2009-2010 season, so these numbers actually pre-date Louisville's new arena.

To put this into perspective, one can look at revenues and expenses too. Here is where we rank on both revenues and expenses.

Team / Revenue / Expenses

Louisville: $25,890,003 / $9,089,769
Syracuse: $18,309,470 / $15,300,740
Marquette: $13,877,475 / $8,185,030
West Virginia: $13,306,654 / $6,377,761
Pittsburgh: $13,117,849 / $6,046,724
Georgetown: $10,074,618 / $7,393,234
Connecticut: $7,745,145 / $6,940,903
Villanova: $7,652,470 / $6,117,021
St. John's: $6,741,298 / $6,741,298
DePaul: $6,528,661 / $6,528,661
Providence: $6,460,838 / $4,696,862
Seton Hall: $6,215,923 / $6,215,923
Cincinnati: $4,927,771 / $3,754,077
Rutgers: $4,634,026 / $4,495,147
USF: $4,588,627 / $3,215,424
Notre Dame: $4,051,468 / $4,060,565

There are some interesting things here. First, I am not sure how these figures were tabulated. My guess is that some of these programs (especially the state schools) may receive some revenue from the university system itself. Secondly, I am guessing that some programs have their expenses paid by the university to prevent "losses" (which is why DePaul, Seton Hall and Rutgers broke exactly even).

Georgetown ranks 6th in revenue and 4th in expenses. The only way to increase profits is to increase revenue or decrease expenses. My guess is that it would be tough to decrease expenses. The two largest expenses are probably John Thompson III's salary and playing at the Verizon Center. If we played on campus, we might be a more profitable program (which is another argument in favor of a facility, but not one that will be persuasive to Georgetown's administration, surely). That said, if an on campus facility meant fewer tickets and smaller attendance, that might not be true.

I find it amazing that Louisville has $25 million of revenue. Syracuse's revenue is high, too, though their expenses were high (is this because of their new practice facility?). It isn't surprising to me that the state schools have more revenue, but it is disappointing to see Marquette's revenue so much higher. I wonder how they manage to bring in $3 million more than Georgetown in revenue.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jun 21, 2011 13:01:24 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

They also had to sell their souls and play in a building called "The KFC Yum Center".

If the choice was between having no facility and having a corporate sponsored one, I would take the corporate sponsored one any day.

[FrazierFanatic]

Jun 21, 2011 10:58:11 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Louisville - 20,000-person brand new stadium that they charge a lot for and sell out constantly? It's not hard when you're the only game in town in a basketball-mad state.

They also are not required to include any "hush money" Ricky P has to pay to keep the ladies of Louisville quiet.

[DFW HOYA]

Jun 21, 2011 14:48:52 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I find it amazing that Louisville has $25 million of revenue. Syracuse's revenue is high, too, though their expenses were high (is this because of their new practice facility?). It isn't surprising to me that the state schools have more revenue, but it is disappointing to see Marquette's revenue so much higher. I wonder how they manage to bring in $3 million more than Georgetown in revenue.

Those numbers are based on UofL's last year at Freedom Hall. Wait until the numbers for 2010-11 come in at KFC.

Marquette has higher numbers because they draw more than Georgetown. (It also doesn't hurt that they pay next to nothing in rent.)

Of greater concern to Georgetown is whether it is, for lack of a better term, approaching peak revenue in basketball from a ticketing standpoint. Can Georgetown realistically average more than 13,000 a game given its scheduling limitations at Verizon Center, lack of regional rivals, and a softer ticket base than places like Louisville and Syracuse? If not, where does the money come from?

[hoyasaxa2003]

My other question is whether these revenue figures include donations specifically earmarked for basketball. I would think the answer is yes. If so, then one way to increase revenue is to increase alumni revenue, but I think that is probably hard to do in this economy. Of course, winning a national championship or making another Final Four would help in that category.

[Hoyaholic]

Jun 21, 2011 15:26:27 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jun 21, 2011 14:48:52 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Of greater concern to Georgetown is whether it is, for lack of a better term, approaching peak revenue in basketball from a ticketing standpoint. Can Georgetown realistically average more than 13,000 a game given its scheduling limitations at Verizon Center, lack of regional rivals, and a softer ticket base than places like Louisville and Syracuse? If not, where does the money come from?

Not to beat a dead horse, but we don't lack regional rivals. We just don't play them.

[jgalt]

Even when Louisville was in Freedom Hall front row seats could only be had for an around 100k donation (i don't have a source, i just remember hearing that on the ESPN broadcast during the white suit game). So that helps quite a bit.

All things considered, Gtown fairs extremely well in my opinion. The media in the area is dominated by a different team and every year there seems to be a mid-major in the area that becomes the media darling (vcu, au, odu, etc). On top of that is the situation with Verizon.

As for L'ville "selling their soul" umm, Gtown plays in the Verizon center and doesnt even get the money from that sponsorship- better to sell your soul that to give it away

[nashvillehoyas]

I have been a Hoya Hoop Club member for several years. Attend as many games as possible...@ Louisville, @cincinnati and @memphis (when on schedule) and other games close to Nashville. I am surprise that Georgetown does not sell more away tickets. Kim Franks always made it possible for me to have reasonable good seats. Does not away game tickets count as revenue? How much of ticket sales come from students and alums? What percentage of home tickets are purchased by side walk fans?....Over 50% of Louisville fans are non-students and alums. Probably close to 75% of Kentucky fans are not students or alums.

[DanMcQ]

To answer why Georgetown doesn't sell more tickets to away games: Georgetown is limited in the number of tickets they are allotted to away games. For instance, I believe they only get 200-300 tickets to the UConn games in Hartford. Steve's group does a great job of finding alternate sources where available, but in the places most people would want to go (UConn, Louisville, etc) there aren't that many out there that aren't going through 3rd party channels.

[nashvillehoyas]

@moderator: Thanks very much for info. I appreciate the ticket office for providing me tickets for games close to Nashville.