TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,480
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Post by TC on Apr 27, 2011 22:50:09 GMT -5
But we saw him score over a 6'5" guy from Loyola!
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GPHoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by GPHoya on Apr 28, 2011 8:08:37 GMT -5
Yeah and I saw him at 11 am mass in Dahlgren after the Syracuse game and he is really big and seemed quite reverent. He left carrying books and headed towards the library so I believe he is also very scholarly. Makes me worry that he may not be mean enough, but perhaps I have too few data points to make a final judgment. It is enough to make me root for his success as a player and a person. Of course, I do that for everyone who puts on the jersey.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
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Post by chep3 on Apr 28, 2011 9:12:01 GMT -5
Reasons why people are excited about Moses:
-- JTII said he was the best shot blocker he'd seen since Ewing
-- Several other high majors were after him
-- The kid is huge
I'm not saying that's enough to predict future stardom, but it's something to go on. Henry got more time than him in his sophomore year on a better team and a team with more inside support. Even in the approximately 12 minutes he played all season, he's looked more comfortable than Henry ever did in his sophomore year.
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Apr 28, 2011 9:40:45 GMT -5
The consensus always seems to be that Moses has such tremendous potential, but I'm not sure what anybody has seen to think that other than the most superficial thing--he's big and passes "the look test". I'm not saying that he necessarily doesn't have potential, just that I'm really not sure what anybody has seen in him to be so certain of it. People seem to think that because he is 6'8.5 and Nigerian, we're clearly sitting on a gold mine. Truth is, there are hundreds of kids across the country every year who are 6'8-6'9, and a lot of them stink. Again this is not to say that Moses stinks, but just that I don't think there's anything about him that ensures us that he's this great untapped potential. Having a good body does not make you a good basketball player, and there are a million examples through the years to prove it. Blind comparison, ready? Player A: 6'8.5 Center, born in Africa and came to the game a little bit later in life. Averaged 15 pts, 16 boards and 11 blocks a game in high school. Saw only garbage minutes as a freshman at Georgetown, despite playing in a frontcourt that was not exactly deep. Player B: 6'9 Center, born in Africa and came to the game a little bit later in life. Averaged 21 points, 15 boards and 9 blocks a game in high school. Saw only garbage minutes as a freshman at Georgetown, despite playing in a frontcourt that was not exactly deep. Player A is Moses Ayegba. Player B is Cornelio Guibunda. After leaving GU, Guibunda was an ok reserve bigman at AU. However, would it have been at all appropriate to say that he had great potential as a freshman at GU? He couldn't beat out Amadou (or Sead, even) and Moses as a freshman couldn't beat out Sims or Benimon. Now, I am NOT saying that Moses will be Guibunda, however, their resumes through the end of their freshman years are more or less identical (Moses has a little more bulk to him, but that's about all). I don't think that Moses has demonstrated much of anything for now. I think it's silly for people to say things like "III needs to just play him, he just needs time out there." Or, "Moses could be a star, he just needs the lights to go on." Did Cornelio just need the playing time, or the lights to go on? Maybe Moses is different and better, and I hope he is. Only time will tell. But for now, his "potential" is nowhere near the sure thing that some have painted it to be. He could grow into a stud, or he could end up on the end of the bench for some low major. Until he can surpass the Jerelle Benimon's of the world, I am not counting on him for anything. If he finds his way into the rotation next year and provides anything, I'd be thrilled, but until I see it I'm not counting on it. He's already surpassed Jerelle lol in the little time he has gotten...as I stated earlier I've seen this kid in high school and the Kenner and a few moments this past season...Believe me take my word for it...I know the facts... |
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Apr 28, 2011 9:45:22 GMT -5
Yeah and I saw him at 11 am mass in Dahlgren after the Syracuse game and he is really big and seemed quite reverent. He left carrying books and headed towards the library so I believe he is also very scholarly. Makes me worry that he may not be mean enough, but perhaps I have too few data points to make a final judgment. It is enough to make me root for his success as a player and a person. Of course, I do that for everyone who puts on the jersey. Duhhhh if you saw him at mass this means that his belief in the Lord is strong, so he is strong! You mean to tell me if he believes in his faith he is weak? I'm asking, and not assuming. I hope your not thinking this because if you are if you have no faith base makes me wonder just how weak you are lol... |
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Apr 28, 2011 9:45:58 GMT -5
Reasons why people are excited about Moses: -- JTII said he was the best shot blocker he'd seen since Ewing -- Several other high majors were after him -- The kid is huge I'm not saying that's enough to predict future stardom, but it's something to go on. Henry got more time than him in his sophomore year on a better team and a team with more inside support. Even in the approximately 12 minutes he played all season, he's looked more comfortable than Henry ever did in his sophomore year. Thank you Chep! |
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rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,595
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Post by rosslynhoya on Apr 28, 2011 9:46:22 GMT -5
The consensus always seems to be that Moses has such tremendous potential, but I'm not sure what anybody has seen to think that other than the most superficial thing--he's big and passes "the look test". I'm not saying that he necessarily doesn't have potential, just that I'm really not sure what anybody has seen in him to be so certain of it. People seem to think that because he is 6'8.5 and Nigerian, we're clearly sitting on a gold mine. Truth is, there are hundreds of kids across the country every year who are 6'8-6'9, and a lot of them stink. Again this is not to say that Moses stinks, but just that I don't think there's anything about him that ensures us that he's this great untapped potential. Having a good body does not make you a good basketball player, and there are a million examples through the years to prove it. Blind comparison, ready? Player A: 6'8.5 Center, born in Africa and came to the game a little bit later in life. Averaged 15 pts, 16 boards and 11 blocks a game in high school. Saw only garbage minutes as a freshman at Georgetown, despite playing in a frontcourt that was not exactly deep. Player B: 6'9 Center, born in Africa and came to the game a little bit later in life. Averaged 21 points, 15 boards and 9 blocks a game in high school. Saw only garbage minutes as a freshman at Georgetown, despite playing in a frontcourt that was not exactly deep. Player A is Moses Ayegba. Player B is Cornelio Guibunda. After leaving GU, Guibunda was an ok reserve bigman at AU. However, would it have been at all appropriate to say that he had great potential as a freshman at GU? He couldn't beat out Amadou (or Sead, even) and Moses as a freshman couldn't beat out Sims or Benimon. Now, I am NOT saying that Moses will be Guibunda, however, their resumes through the end of their freshman years are more or less identical (Moses has a little more bulk to him, but that's about all). I don't think that Moses has demonstrated much of anything for now. I think it's silly for people to say things like "III needs to just play him, he just needs time out there." Or, "Moses could be a star, he just needs the lights to go on." Did Cornelio just need the playing time, or the lights to go on? Maybe Moses is different and better, and I hope he is. Only time will tell. But for now, his "potential" is nowhere near the sure thing that some have painted it to be. He could grow into a stud, or he could end up on the end of the bench for some low major. Until he can surpass the Jerelle Benimon's of the world, I am not counting on him for anything. If he finds his way into the rotation next year and provides anything, I'd be thrilled, but until I see it I'm not counting on it. He's already surpassed Jerelle lol in the little time he has gotten...as I stated earlier I've seen this kid in high school and the Kenner and a few moments this past season...Believe me take my word for it...I know the facts... Facts. You (and bronxie) keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. |
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Apr 28, 2011 9:49:07 GMT -5
He's already surpassed Jerelle lol in the little time he has gotten...as I stated earlier I've seen this kid in high school and the Kenner and a few moments this past season...Believe me take my word for it...I know the facts... Facts. You (and bronxie) keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.      |
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Apr 28, 2011 9:50:05 GMT -5
Moses is like Field of Dreams - Play him and he will bring it!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 28, 2011 9:59:16 GMT -5
We do Moses Ayegba a disservice to portray him as the next Dikembe Mutombo, when it is more likely he is a four year player that is still developing his game. After all, Ayegba had all of 26 points and three rebounds for the season, narrowly trailing Aaron Bowen's 24 points and seven rebounds...yet no one (yet) is promoting Bowen as the next David Wingate. There have been roughly two dozen big men in the Big East era for Georgetown. Ayegba is neither at the front of the list (Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, Harrington, Hibbert), nor the end (Fleury, Guibunda, Shamel Jones, Gillery, Mateen). The coaches have seen exponentially more of Ayegba than fans have and they'll be the ones to best judge his development, which could be significantly helped by the China trip. Moses had 10 ponts this season and Aaron had 7; the 26 and 24 may be minutes. But your point is certainly valid - Moses has potential to be a very solid big, needs to keep working and developing just as we all figured when we signed him. I expect to see much more of him next year, especially early on to see where he stands. |
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Apr 28, 2011 10:09:10 GMT -5
We do Moses Ayegba a disservice to portray him as the next Dikembe Mutombo, when it is more likely he is a four year player that is still developing his game. After all, Ayegba had all of 26 points and three rebounds for the season, narrowly trailing Aaron Bowen's 24 points and seven rebounds...yet no one (yet) is promoting Bowen as the next David Wingate. There have been roughly two dozen big men in the Big East era for Georgetown. Ayegba is neither at the front of the list (Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, Harrington, Hibbert), nor the end (Fleury, Guibunda, Shamel Jones, Gillery, Mateen). The coaches have seen exponentially more of Ayegba than fans have and they'll be the ones to best judge his development, which could be significantly helped by the China trip. Moses had 10 ponts this season and Aaron had 7; the 26 and 24 may be minutes. But your point is certainly valid - Moses has potential to be a very solid big, needs to keep working and developing just as we all figured when we signed him. I expect to see much more of him next year, especially early on to see where he stands. Yessir! |
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Post by x-centercourt400s on Apr 28, 2011 14:01:28 GMT -5
Facts. You (and bronxie) keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. But they know something that you don't know... Moses is not left-handed! |
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Apr 28, 2011 14:32:37 GMT -5
RBHoya broke it down.
Funny thing about Guibunda is that I think he was ranked a higher prospect than Hibbert and Jeff.
Folks get too caught up in physical measurements and hype.
When JTIII totally errs on playing time when it comes to 1 player while he has coached here at G-town, then I will start to 2nd-guess him.
But up to this point he has not erred in his distribution of minutes. If a guy isn't playing much , then that player isn't ready to contribute at that point in time.
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Apr 28, 2011 15:33:23 GMT -5
Did he not make a mistake with Macklin? RBHoya broke it down. Funny thing about Guibunda is that I think he was ranked a higher prospect than Hibbert and Jeff. Folks get too caught up in physical measurements and hype. When JTIII totally errs on playing time when it comes to 1 player while he has coached here at G-town, then I will start to 2nd-guess him. But up to this point he has not erred in his distribution of minutes. If a guy isn't playing much , then that player isn't ready to contribute at that point in time. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 28, 2011 15:43:00 GMT -5
Did he not make a mistake with Macklin? RBHoya broke it down. Funny thing about Guibunda is that I think he was ranked a higher prospect than Hibbert and Jeff. Folks get too caught up in physical measurements and hype. When JTIII totally errs on playing time when it comes to 1 player while he has coached here at G-town, then I will start to 2nd-guess him. But up to this point he has not erred in his distribution of minutes. If a guy isn't playing much , then that player isn't ready to contribute at that point in time. It is hard to argue that he did when Vernon himself admitted that he did not work hard enough while at GU. |
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,480
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Post by TC on Apr 28, 2011 16:09:44 GMT -5
There have been roughly two dozen big men in the Big East era for Georgetown. Ayegba is neither at the front of the list (Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, Harrington, Hibbert), nor the end (Fleury, Guibunda, Shamel Jones, Gillery, Mateen). I'd love to see this list ranked out. If we're judging on talent - where Ayegba is somewhere in the middle - here's no way that guys like Jones and Mateen that went on to decent careers at major conference schools rank lower than players that never cracked a rotation anywhere (Owinje, Bosanac, etc). |
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
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Post by chep3 on Apr 28, 2011 16:11:27 GMT -5
But up to this point he has not erred in his distribution of minutes. If a guy isn't playing much , then that player isn't ready to contribute at that point in time. How does one disprove that exactly? My guess is either you can transfer and turn into a productive player, a la Macklin, or you can produce in the brief time that you get but still not play more, a la Vee. Would you not count either of those guys? |
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Post by wahoohoya on Apr 28, 2011 16:37:27 GMT -5
But up to this point he has not erred in his distribution of minutes. If a guy isn't playing much , then that player isn't ready to contribute at that point in time. How does one disprove that exactly? My guess is either you can transfer and turn into a productive player, a la Macklin, or you can produce in the brief time that you get but still not play more, a la Vee. Would you not count either of those guys? I have to give the_way credit - at least he is consistent with his argument that III is flawless in how he doles out minutes and that players only develop in practice and not in games. If you start with those core assumptions, the rest of this discussion stuff is pointless. |
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 28, 2011 17:12:58 GMT -5
But up to this point he has not erred in his distribution of minutes. If a guy isn't playing much , then that player isn't ready to contribute at that point in time. How does one disprove that exactly? My guess is either you can transfer and turn into a productive player, a la Macklin, or you can produce in the brief time that you get but still not play more, a la Vee. Would you not count either of those guys? You disprove by showing what you can do when you get playing time and the times in practice. Or you transfer and blow up at another major conference school. As noted above, Vernon did not work hard while he was here. And when he went to Florida he initially started those bad habits again. The coaching staff at Florida were asking him to do the same things G-town's staff asked him to do. It finally sunk in for him and he started working hard there. Vee really didn't show much during his time here. The times he was in the game, he showed why he was not much of an option at the 1 and he also showed why he wasn't a solid alternative to Jason Clark at the 2. IF kids transfer to lower schools, its usually an indication that maybe the level play at this level is too overwhelming for them to contribute the significant minutes they desire. Again, I go back to Nate Lubick. What is the difference between Nate Lubick, Henry Sims, Benimon, and Moses? (besides skin color....  ) Nate came in, and was not starting. But showed well in practice and the times he got into the game, he earn more playing time with his play and eventually became a starter. That is what it takes. Apparently Moses is not there yet. Henry has not arrived at that stage. Benimon is a role player off the bench. Its not rocket science. JTIII is a smart guy. He can see who can play and who can't during the practices. Now, if you want to gripe about why he is bringing in guys that can't play at this level or are very slow to develop, then that is something different |
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Post by wahoohoya on Apr 28, 2011 18:10:50 GMT -5
I certainly agree that JTIII is a smart guy and I'm sure he mostly does get it right. But it's still ridiculous to say he has never made a mistake in his distribution of minutes. We'll never know if changing things slightly over the past couple of seasons could have resulted in a more reliable bench and better team chemistry - which in turn could have taken some of the pressure off the starters and possibly helped avoid late season slumps.
You could be 100% correct - III might have made all the right moves and switching up the minutes here and there might not have made any difference. But no coach is perfect - it's a delicate balance in terms of playing guys who are ready and developing the bench.
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