RDF
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Post by RDF on May 25, 2011 13:32:19 GMT -5
RDF: we get that you don't like the player Jeff Green is now and that you alone have the answer(s) to solving the problem(s) you see. Thanks for taking the bait though. The point was, that just like he would not have propelled the Celtics to the Finals, Perkins won't propel OKC to the Finals. Actually you are on some mission to act like that trade didn't ruin the Celtics season. It did. Doc Rivers even said the timing of trade was poor and wish they did it after the season. We all know your man love for Doc, so the best part of moving on is acceptance Dan. Perkins has played in Postseason, did Shaq? With Perkins, the Thunder won 2 playoff Series and with Green they didn't win any. Perkins is signed for the future and can be a valuable part as his health improves (you always defend the trade by saying Perkins was hurt, etc......but deny the reality of they got a solid big man who is playing hurt, yet take shots at his production-Perkins hurt has been more aggressive/tougher then a healthy Kristic/Green) Hoya or Not--that trade sucked for Boston and helped the Thunder.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on May 25, 2011 13:37:29 GMT -5
RDF: we get that you don't like the player Jeff Green is now and that you alone have the answer(s) to solving the problem(s) you see. Thanks for taking the bait though. The point was, that just like he would not have propelled the Celtics to the Finals, Perkins won't propel OKC to the Finals. Dan, he can't make/force Jeff to become the player he needs to/wants to/should be -- player has to that on his own. Thing is -- it takes work/practice. He doesn't live in a world/universe/jurisdiction where a player can just snap his fingers/wish on star and become an all star. Thing is -- it's up to him. It's about work/getting better. Also, the Celtics should think about upgrading their coaching staff. He sees lots of strength/muscle/nutritional issues. Nice sarcasm Guru. If you aren't physical enough to play PF, and don't show the skills of a SF, you are worth keeping because....?? Green can continue on his path to being a role player or he can improve his ball handling/mid range game. He has none. He can't take bigs off the dribble, and he's a less effective rebounder then Rondo right now. So what does he bring to the table? Team that traded him improved without him. Team that received him got worse. You can place "bait" out there all you want but Green right now is a mediocre player.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 25, 2011 13:41:41 GMT -5
I don't want to see the Bulls in the Finals until they add on another scorer. I dislike teams that can't score and I don't care how hard those teams play either. Those great squds in the 80s could score. If it wasn't for Rose's highlights these Bulls would be as much of a snooze fest as the Pistons that won it all last decade. I could respect that Detroit team but at times it was a bit of an eye sore. Didn't hurt the Pistons when the Lakers made the finals b/c Cassell was hurt and then Malone didn't play in the finals b/c he was hurt. Bulls aren't going to get that lucky
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 25, 2011 13:51:17 GMT -5
I don't want to see the Bulls in the Finals until they add on another scorer. I dislike teams that can't score and I don't care how hard those teams play either. Those great squds in the 80s could score. If it wasn't for Rose's highlights these Bulls would be as much of a snooze fest as the Pistons that won it all last decade. I could respect that Detroit team but at times it was a bit of an eye sore. Didn't hurt the Pistons when the Lakers made the finals b/c Cassell was hurt and then Malone didn't play in the finals b/c he was hurt. Bulls aren't going to get that lucky Larry Brown was the one coach who knew how to attack the Lakers with Shaq--play him man up/take away Kobe and run them off the court. Brown's strengths as a coach were always on display against the Lakers/Jackson. Even in that defeat in '01, Sixers were only team to play Lakers competitively and took only game off them in postseason.
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on May 25, 2011 14:18:56 GMT -5
RDF: we get that you don't like the player Jeff Green is now and that you alone have the answer(s) to solving the problem(s) you see. Thanks for taking the bait though. The point was, that just like he would not have propelled the Celtics to the Finals, Perkins won't propel OKC to the Finals. Actually you are on some mission to act like that trade didn't ruin the Celtics season. It did. Doc Rivers even said the timing of trade was poor and wish they did it after the season. We all know your man love for Doc, so the best part of moving on is acceptance Dan. Perkins has played in Postseason, did Shaq? With Perkins, the Thunder won 2 playoff Series and with Green they didn't win any. Perkins is signed for the future and can be a valuable part as his health improves (you always defend the trade by saying Perkins was hurt, etc......but deny the reality of they got a solid big man who is playing hurt, yet take shots at his production-Perkins hurt has been more aggressive/tougher then a healthy Kristic/Green) Hoya or Not--that trade sucked for Boston and helped the Thunder. The Celtics lost because their Big 3 wore down late in the season (not surprising considering their age) and Rondo got hurt. Wade and LeBron were the best players on the court, and they simply outplayed them. Everything else is a peripheral issue.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 25, 2011 14:19:08 GMT -5
Didn't hurt the Pistons when the Lakers made the finals b/c Cassell was hurt and then Malone didn't play in the finals b/c he was hurt. Bulls aren't going to get that lucky Larry Brown was the one coach who knew how to attack the Lakers with Shaq--play him man up/take away Kobe and run them off the court. Brown's strengths as a coach were always on display against the Lakers/Jackson. Even in that defeat in '01, Sixers were only team to play Lakers competitively and took only game off them in postseason. That's true. I'm just being bitter about the T-Wolves missing out on their best/only chance to win a title b/c they lost their PG & 2nd best player for a series against a team that couldn't stop PGs.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 25, 2011 14:50:05 GMT -5
Actually you are on some mission to act like that trade didn't ruin the Celtics season. It did. Doc Rivers even said the timing of trade was poor and wish they did it after the season. We all know your man love for Doc, so the best part of moving on is acceptance Dan. Perkins has played in Postseason, did Shaq? With Perkins, the Thunder won 2 playoff Series and with Green they didn't win any. Perkins is signed for the future and can be a valuable part as his health improves (you always defend the trade by saying Perkins was hurt, etc......but deny the reality of they got a solid big man who is playing hurt, yet take shots at his production-Perkins hurt has been more aggressive/tougher then a healthy Kristic/Green) Hoya or Not--that trade sucked for Boston and helped the Thunder. The Celtics lost because their Big 3 wore down late in the season (not surprising considering their age) and Rondo got hurt. Wade and LeBron were the best players on the court, and they simply outplayed them. Everything else is a peripheral issue. Give you Rondo injury but he stunk prior to getting hurt in Games 1 and 2, , but why did the "Big 3" wear down? Had to play more because the trade that was made didn't work and the bench was so bad--including Glen Davis--holdover player but his role increased/changed, and their reliance on a corpse (Shaq) to be healthy/effective was misplaced. What I love about Celtics fans is how they want to forget that their own coach/GM/team stated how important: 1. Starting lineup was--(Rivers battle cry of we've never lost a playoff series with starting 5--well you still haven't Doc) 2. Homecourt--all offseason/during the season, it was "we'd have won Game 7 last year if it was in Boston and not LA,...need to have homecourt......" and then trade is made and they not only lose homecourt/#1 seed, they drop below Heat. In a game that mattered for homecourt with the post trade lineup they got whacked. So can't say that game didn't mean anything. 3. Talk of unbuntu and use of it as a "stick together" rallying cry and then you blow up a successful team. If you are going to talk about those things, then why make moves that go completely against your own beliefs? Why would players believe in what you are doing-which was obvious the vets didn't. I know, I know, Perkins sucks, he's awful and Celtics would've lost to Knicks in opening round with him, and he's the sole reason OKC didn't make postseason or win a series again. In fact, I believe I saw him kill a puppy, he's cause of NFL/NBA lockout, economic problems, etc...but when he was a Celtic, it was key to them not winning last year.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 25, 2011 15:01:24 GMT -5
Perkins is overrated as a defender because he got to play alongside Garnett and in comparison to undersized backups like Big Baby.
Garnett is one of the best team and pick and roll defenders in basketball history and Perkins complemented him nicely as a guy who could be tall and defend the rim. Garnett and the rest of the team -- running a defense by one of the best defensive minds in basketball -- could deal with more agile players.
Which is fine; I don't disagree that the trade didn't make a huge amount of sense. But Perkins hasn't been good in KC either -- and he didn't really help them against Memphis. And it's partially because he needs to be in a limited role to excel (like 90% of the NBA).
I like Ibaka a lot, but now that he's getting more time, you see a lot more articles detailing his failings as well.
Frankly, Collison has outplayed all three players above in the postseason from what I've seen.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 25, 2011 15:04:06 GMT -5
Actually you are on some mission to act like that trade didn't ruin the Celtics season. It did. Not my mission: my mission is to wind you up. ;D The other thing Grousbeck said on the radio this morning was that they decided to trade Perkins because (and I paraphrase) he'd rejected the Celtics offer already and would have been gone through free agency, that their assessment was that Perkins would neither start nor finish the games because they'd been going with Shaq and then Glen Davis in those roles, and that the downfall of their trade was that Shaq couldn't play. If you ask me, the other downfall was depending on Davis. If their gamble on Shaq and Davis had paid off we wouldn't be having this discussion. Your Green hating is another topic entirely.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 25, 2011 15:04:57 GMT -5
Wow, how lucky is Mike Brown? He absolutely wasted LeBron James' youngest years and now he gets to destroy any last chance Kobe Bryant's last years of being the best player on a title contender?
Seriously, what in Cleveland makes anyone think this is a good idea?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 25, 2011 15:11:01 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 25, 2011 15:15:21 GMT -5
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on May 25, 2011 15:33:34 GMT -5
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on May 25, 2011 17:15:24 GMT -5
The Celtics lost because their Big 3 wore down late in the season (not surprising considering their age) and Rondo got hurt. Wade and LeBron were the best players on the court, and they simply outplayed them. Everything else is a peripheral issue. Give you Rondo injury but he stunk prior to getting hurt in Games 1 and 2, , but why did the "Big 3" wear down? Had to play more because the trade that was made didn't work and the bench was so bad--including Glen Davis--holdover player but his role increased/changed, and their reliance on a corpse (Shaq) to be healthy/effective was misplaced. What I love about Celtics fans is how they want to forget that their own coach/GM/team stated how important: 1. Starting lineup was--(Rivers battle cry of we've never lost a playoff series with starting 5--well you still haven't Doc) 2. Homecourt--all offseason/during the season, it was "we'd have won Game 7 last year if it was in Boston and not LA,...need to have homecourt......" and then trade is made and they not only lose homecourt/#1 seed, they drop below Heat. In a game that mattered for homecourt with the post trade lineup they got whacked. So can't say that game didn't mean anything. 3. Talk of unbuntu and use of it as a "stick together" rallying cry and then you blow up a successful team. If you are going to talk about those things, then why make moves that go completely against your own beliefs? Why would players believe in what you are doing-which was obvious the vets didn't. I know, I know, Perkins sucks, he's awful and Celtics would've lost to Knicks in opening round with him, and he's the sole reason OKC didn't make postseason or win a series again. In fact, I believe I saw him kill a puppy, he's cause of NFL/NBA lockout, economic problems, etc...but when he was a Celtic, it was key to them not winning last year. Check the numbers. The Big 3 had no spike in minutes down the stretch. They wore down this year and really wore down in the second half of last year. The Celtics took a gamble that Shaq could give them quality minutes, and that blew up on them. It hurt, but not nearly as much as it would have if they had played Dwight Howard or the Lakers. I don't like the Heat either, and I hope Dallas beats them. But as they get better playing with each other, they are getting harder and harder to beat. They were just better than the Celtics. LeBron won some of those games with ridiculous, unguardable shots. Time to give credit where its due. The Heat are really good.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on May 25, 2011 18:22:19 GMT -5
Kendrick Perkins would not have taken any minutes away from the Old 3. Jeff Green subbed for all 3 at different times. Our man Jeff may not have been the best player Ainge could have gotten in return for Perkins, but he certainly filled a large need once Marquis Daniels went out for the season. Funny thing, the guy the Celtics really could have used was the much-maligned Tony Allen - if they held onto him, they don't need to make the trade for Green in the first place, and he played great defense for Memphis in their postseason run.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 25, 2011 21:47:32 GMT -5
Kendrick Perkins would not have taken any minutes away from the Old 3. Jeff Green subbed for all 3 at different times. Our man Jeff may not have been the best player Ainge could have gotten in return for Perkins, but he certainly filled a large need once Marquis Daniels went out for the season. Funny thing, the guy the Celtics really could have used was the much-maligned Tony Allen - if they held onto him, they don't need to make the trade for Green in the first place, and he played great defense for Memphis in their postseason run. Strange but true. I don't know what to make of the Mike Brown hiring. I know Brown takes a lot of heat for not having much of an offense in Cleveland, but who did he ever have to go with LeBron that was half decent other than Williams? I'm willing to wait and see how this plays out. My biggest fear is that Kobe will completely ignore him.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 25, 2011 22:44:16 GMT -5
Second year in a row that OKC season ends b/c of a failure to get a rebound. I thought Perkins was going to solve that problem ;D
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 25, 2011 23:59:20 GMT -5
Kevin Durant has chance to get a rebound on last possession and he tries to draw a foul with a flop. Of course he'll get no criticism whatsover because it's Westbrook's fault. Durant is a very nice kid, but this protection of him is amazing. Missing uncontested dunks, not getting boards with game on line, and yet it's always someone else's fault. Scott Brooks gone after next year???
Harden is killing Dallas, and they go away from him, go away from Westbrook, go away from Durant, it's Eric Maynor time! Dallas goes Big, and Brooks answers by going small and low and behold, they give up 5 key points on offensive rebounds in last minute.
Dallas will be the new favorite over the Heat, and it's an awful matchup for them. They can't defend players who drive to the basket and James/Wade are best in league doing that--but they'll finish/get calls. I'm a ABM guy although I don't mind Lebron, other then total disappointment in the celebration of his signing that he actually took part in. Heat winning would be a nice bouquet deleted -Bosh, Miller, so it's a nice PR move for Stern to get about 1-5 new fans of the league.
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Post by badgerhoya on May 26, 2011 9:21:57 GMT -5
Dallas will be the new favorite over the Heat, and it's an awful matchup for them. They can't defend players who drive to the basket and James/Wade are best in league doing that--but they'll finish/get calls. I'm a ABM guy although I don't mind Lebron, other then total disappointment in the celebration of his signing that he actually took part in. Heat winning would be a nice bouquet deleted -Bosh, Miller, so it's a nice PR move for Stern to get about 1-5 new fans of the league. Totally agree with this -- but I also have a funny feeling that more referee shenanigans are in play for the Finals if it's Heat / Mavs. Whether it's payback for 2006, or payback for The Decision, or part of the CBA narrative about supporting small-market teams who would lose their stars to teams like the Heat/Knicks/etc., I can see at least 1 (if not more) games to funny refereeing.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on May 26, 2011 11:21:09 GMT -5
Dallas will be the new favorite over the Heat, and it's an awful matchup for them. They can't defend players who drive to the basket and James/Wade are best in league doing that--but they'll finish/get calls. I'm a ABM guy although I don't mind Lebron, other then total disappointment in the celebration of his signing that he actually took part in. Heat winning would be a nice bouquet deleted -Bosh, Miller, so it's a nice PR move for Stern to get about 1-5 new fans of the league. I'm not so sure. If the Heat advance they will cause matchup problems for Dallas. If the Mavs have such difficulty with Harden's drives and Westbrrok's predictable ventures into the lane (he is only looking to score each time), then Wade and LeBron will give them all sorts of fits. And in that series the Mavs will not have the best player on the floor as they did when they squared off against the Thunder. In fact the best two players could be on Miami's side because LeBron and Wade play great on both ends of the floor and both are also better at creating for others than Dirk. Miami can't shoot the three that well but the Thunder were competitive with the Mavs even though they could never find the stroke from long range. Dallas knocking off the Lakers was BIG TIME. But the Heat having to go through the Celtics and the Bulls could be even more impressive (if the Heat get past Chicago that is). Whatever defense Dallas presents against Miami will seem second rate compared to what the Heat have seen against the Celtics and the Bulls. And outside of Dirk Dallas' big men aren't any more formidable than Chicago's frontline. It should make for an interesting series. I like Dallas' depth; I like the age of the Heat.
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