nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
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Post by nychoya3 on Oct 12, 2011 11:00:35 GMT -5
Point is - they are loaded with talent (I just named two guys on their roster...there are others) AND they're ALWAYS loaded with talent. Pays to build bridges with schools like that, and JT3 getting a shoutout from the coach on Twitter should earn him a pat on the back rather than people calling him an idiot because they don't love one of the guys he was watching.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 12, 2011 11:44:18 GMT -5
Point is - they are loaded with talent (I just named two guys on their roster...there are others) AND they're ALWAYS loaded with talent. Pays to build bridges with schools like that, and JT3 getting a shoutout from the coach on Twitter should earn him a pat on the back rather than people calling him an idiot because they don't love one of the guys he was watching. Good point. If Jankovic signs up, then we can complain. At this point, I suggest we give it a rest.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Oct 12, 2011 11:58:52 GMT -5
Or maybe with Othella on board and with Broadus back in the fold the staff feels that motivation of players isn't the concern it once was. Or maybe they feel that Jabril won't let any player not give 100%. Who knows.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,926
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 12, 2011 12:37:35 GMT -5
Point is - they are loaded with talent (I just named two guys on their roster...there are others) AND they're ALWAYS loaded with talent. Pays to build bridges with schools like that, and JT3 getting a shoutout from the coach on Twitter should earn him a pat on the back rather than people calling him an idiot because they don't love one of the guys he was watching. Yessir!!! Very good post NYC
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Post by gtowndynasty on Oct 12, 2011 13:05:46 GMT -5
Or maybe with Othella on board and with Broadus back in the fold the staff feels that motivation of players isn't the concern it once was. Or maybe they feel that Jabril won't let any player not give 100%. Who knows. I think people here invest a little too much faith in Jabril. He is not a leader on this team, and while I will agree with you that his effort may be infectious, by all accounts he is not a leader and falls in line behind the incumbent leaders. But the idea that he is whipping players in line as Kobe might, as a frosh who has NEVER played a collegiate game, well that is just not the way it works. He can become that, but the reigns are not handed to a player who has yet to do anything (with few exceptions like some #1 overall recruits). Maybe the frosh look at him that way but the returners certainly do not. And Im not trying to single you out or diminish the overall quality of your post HSB, but I have seen that notion advanced more than a few times and find it laughable every time, though some may be speaking in jest..
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 12, 2011 13:43:40 GMT -5
"He is not a leader on this team, and while I will agree with you that his effort may be infectious, by all accounts he is not a leader and falls in line behind the incumbent leaders."
This statement is false. There are plenty of accounts that paint him as a leader. Time in position is not what solely determines a leader.
Jabril is obviously a take charge type of guy. He's got a leadership style and he's going to assert it. To expect him to "whip everyone into shape" or that they even all need whipping is silly, I agree, but to say that just because he is a freshman he will have no impact is ridiculous.
And to say "by all account he is not a leader" is simply wrong.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Oct 12, 2011 14:04:55 GMT -5
SF-respectfully disagree. Im totally lost when you assert that I said he will have no impact. perhaps you should re-read my post if that is what you took from it. I even said that his effort may be inspiring. I said that he may have more influence among the frosh. Nowhere in my post is it remotely conceivable that you can interpret me as saying he would have no impact. I havent seen as blatant a misquote since I watched the last GOP debate, last night.
Let me try to be more clear. I have seen it written here that Jabril will not settle for this, will not settle for that. This is not Jabril's team and he does not have that type of influence yet. Greg wasnt the leader as a frosh, nor was Chris, Austin, or Dajuan. Jabril does not have any experience and he is not that vocal behind closed doors. He was leading his peers this summer, all frosh, so Im assuming that is where this notion derives, but is altogether different when you are in practice and there are experienced guys around.
Lastly, your concluding sentence is another blatant misinterpretation. I said he has the characteristics to perhaps be the leader of this team one day, but today is not that day. Hope this helps your interpretation, which was wildly off.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Oct 12, 2011 14:11:58 GMT -5
And let me add this. Your definition of what a leader is may be different from mine. So let me give you examples of players who are leaders of their respective teams that I think we would all agree with.
Kobe is a leader of the Lakers Kemba was the leader of the Huskies Rose is the leader of Chi Chris was the leader of the Hoyas
And you think a frosh who has never played a game will lead the Hoyas...laughable. Again, he has characteristics of leaders, but he has to earn the trust of his teammates to be the leader, which cannot be done in Kenner or China.
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Oh My!
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Oh My! on Oct 12, 2011 14:29:19 GMT -5
During their respective times on the Hilltop, both Patrick Ewing, Jr. and Tyler Crawford were both *VERY MUCH* leaders of the Hoyas. Neither of them was an "incumbent leader" when named as co-captains (Tyler twice).
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Oh My!
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 938
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Post by Oh My! on Oct 12, 2011 14:31:03 GMT -5
During their respective times on the Hilltop, both Patrick Ewing, Jr. and Tyler Crawford were both *VERY MUCH* leaders of the Hoyas. Neither of them was an "incumbent leader" when named as co-captains (Tyler twice). & By NO MEANS do I insinuate that being a captain makes one a leader. My point is that both PEJr & TY were leaders *BEFORE* being named captains. Jabril (& Otto for that matter) can surely be regarded in a similar vein. We will all surely see.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Oct 12, 2011 14:32:14 GMT -5
Trawick is the leader of the FR class by a large margin, and that is the core of the team that will decide it's fate. He's got leadership ability-which isn't assigned by tenure-it's by personality. Only thing worse then no leadership is phony leadership--when someone tries to be something he's not and Hank Sims and Jason Clark couldn't lead a drunk to a Free Happy Hour.
Chris Wright was the team's MVP, leader?? Leaders make sure guys are paying attention to detail and doing what they should be doing inseason/offseason. Austin Freeman look like he listened to Chris or anyone for that matter? The 20-25 extra lbs he carried his entire career should be example A that this team needs NEW LEADERSHIP and if that means Trawick as a FR, I'm all for it.
As for the "ties" to Huntington Prep, fine--but the guys you would want there have less interest in Georgetown, then I do in seeing small ball again. Andrew Wiggins has ZERO interest in Hoyas. Guys like him (unfortunately) despise the system that Georgetown is perceived to utilize and I stress perceive--because anyone who follows Georgetown knows it's not the way the negative recruiting goes.
Bhullar and Jankovic aren't great fits for direction the program is moving--at least with the more versatile/athletic FR class, but that's just my opinion--and really don't understand a lot of the recruiting "conflict" you see right now with Hoyas. Like an inner struggle of one side wanting more athletic players and another (guess who they are) identifying skilled, unathletic guys. 1 way worked/other didn't. Hope the approach that netted last year's class wins out.
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by nychoya3 on Oct 12, 2011 14:42:31 GMT -5
1) You have to SEE players to evaluate them. While some members of this board can magically project any prospect via a 20 second grainy cellphone video (not you, RDF), it's appropriate for the staff to do their own evaluations in person.
2) As for your overall points about the type of player you want the staff to recruit, I agree that we have been too small and too slow in the back court the last couple years. It has particularly manifested itself on defense. That said - there is a happy medium to these things. Not to say Jankovic is this guy, but do I think there is a role for a marksman on this squad? Even if he's not going to be anything better than okay on defense? Yeah, I do think that. Four good defensive players and one guy who is trying hard but doesn't have great natural ability is still a good defensive team.
If we could recruit perfect players at every spot, I'd be all for it. But really, every team has specialists to one degree or another. Would I recruit Austin Freeman again? In a heartbeat. But I'd want to pair him with some better perimeter defenders and some big guys who can protect the rim.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Oct 12, 2011 14:46:18 GMT -5
Everyone who has seen Jankovic live has all came to the same conclusion: soft. I've seen national guys talk about him actually use that word, and for that to happen with guys who try to politically right and 'nice', says quite a a bit.
Jankovic's youtube videos actually look nice, he is athletic, has good size and can shoot. But if you do SEE him for more than that, you see that he makes Henry Sims look like Dennis Rodman.
If we were going the specialist route..how bout a lock-down defender? An elite rebounder? Something that a player can bring that III has proven to not be that great of a coach/teacher at? Why more finesse one way players? What's that accomplish?
I think he addressed a lot of problems with the '11 class and a guy like Moses is somebody worth rolling the dice on. He has the potential to add dimensions that past teams didn't have. But going after a kid like DSR and if he chooses to pursue Jankovic is taking a step backwards.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Oct 12, 2011 14:56:11 GMT -5
1) You have to SEE players to evaluate them. While some members of this board can magically project any prospect via a 20 second grainy cellphone video (not you, RDF), it's appropriate for the staff to do their own evaluations in person. 2) As for your overall points about the type of player you want the staff to recruit, I agree that we have been too small and too slow in the back court the last couple years. It has particularly manifested itself on defense. That said - there is a happy medium to these things. Not to say Jankovic is this guy, but do I think there is a role for a marksman on this squad? Even if he's not going to be anything better than okay on defense? Yeah, I do think that. Four good defensive players and one guy who is trying hard but doesn't have great natural ability is still a good defensive team. If we could recruit perfect players at every spot, I'd be all for it. But really, every team has specialists to one degree or another. Would I recruit Austin Freeman again? In a heartbeat. But I'd want to pair him with some better perimeter defenders and some big guys who can protect the rim. Some good points and fair. Recruiting isn't easy--it's like going out on a weekend and seeing beautiful women everywhere and trying to decide which ones to talk to--you have to observe them and see how they are in relation to your preferences/personality. Thing I do think a lot of Hoya fans agree upon or could--III's biggest weakness is that he doesn't pull the trigger. He is the guy waiting to make his decision and often scratching his head why these women who showed interest, gave him their number went home with others. Would I want Freeman again? No. I don't want people who aren't motivated to be the best they can be and don't play hard on both ends of the court. For all the crap I got/get about getting on guys about conditioning, wasn't it a complete slap in the face of the program that Freeman got into great shape 2 months AFTER his college career concluded? What kind of message does that send? It's either a player who ignored instruction and was allowed to play no matter what, or he wasn't instructed to get into shape and program doesn't place an emphasis on it, which means you better recruit self motivated guys--which Freeman wasn't. So that's my reasoning why I'd pass on guys like him--despite thinking he's a very talented offensive player.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Oct 12, 2011 15:10:11 GMT -5
Hopkins got the "soft" label a lot in high school (and the dreaded "passive" too and even "disinterested" if I remember correctly). Seems like early reports from the China trip indicate that said label may not have been completely accurate...at least we can hope.
Not saying Jankovic will be good, but things like "soft" can have a snowball effect and be based on incomplete information (he was Editeded at the coach. He was playing sick, etc.) that may or may not be predictive of success in college.
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turbohoya
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Post by turbohoya on Oct 12, 2011 15:34:00 GMT -5
IF JT3 could get more comfortable with zone defenses, I would MUCH rather take an unatheltic 6'10" 3 point shooter than an uber athletic DOMINATE THE RIM type guy who will never get a real chance at that kind of game with us. Our offense NEEDS shooters, our defense needs better athleticism... Give me 15 minutes of solid 2-3 zone and Jankovic could be a nice addition (if his shooting is what people say it is)
just a thought
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 12, 2011 15:44:32 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but III is an idiot. Seriously?
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by alleninxis on Oct 12, 2011 16:23:32 GMT -5
you did see what I wrote after idiot, right? For tracking THIS kid. It is not the direction he needs to go in at all. This wasn't the first time he visited him this fall and it's a waste of time.
You want to send one of the two inept assistants to watch him, go for it. But his presence is needed elsewhere.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 12, 2011 18:45:56 GMT -5
SF-respectfully disagree. Im totally lost when you assert that I said he will have no impact. perhaps you should re-read my post if that is what you took from it. I even said that his effort may be inspiring. I said that he may have more influence among the frosh. Nowhere in my post is it remotely conceivable that you can interpret me as saying he would have no impact. I havent seen as blatant a misquote since I watched the last GOP debate, last night. Let me try to be more clear. I have seen it written here that Jabril will not settle for this, will not settle for that. This is not Jabril's team and he does not have that type of influence yet. Greg wasnt the leader as a frosh, nor was Chris, Austin, or Dajuan. Jabril does not have any experience and he is not that vocal behind closed doors. He was leading his peers this summer, all frosh, so Im assuming that is where this notion derives, but is altogether different when you are in practice and there are experienced guys around. Lastly, your concluding sentence is another blatant misinterpretation. I said he has the characteristics to perhaps be the leader of this team one day, but today is not that day. Hope this helps your interpretation, which was wildly off. The point I think is factually wrong is this: "By all accounts, he is not a leader"? This is factually wrong. I have talked to several people and read many things that seem to point to leadership exhibited by him and there's certainly a lot of evidence that the team is reacting to him. So, no, not by all accounts. You're overstating the consensus on idea (in fact, oddly, stating that everyone agrees with you when refuting a commonly held opinion you are trying to refute is pretty much guarantee to not work). Okay, semantics aside... I also disagree with is that he is not a leader, and cannot be a leader, seemingly, if I read you right, simply because he is a freshman. Is he walking around screaming at people to play D? No idea, and no idea if it would work if he did. But you even admit in the same post that his effort may be inspiring. That fits into my definition of leadership. I suppose we could simply be arguing about the definition of leadership, but I'd posit that your definition is too restrictive if it is limited to people yelling at other people. But even THAT aside, I suspect Jabril is going to get on people, and I bet they react positively. Plenty of freshmen have been leaders; is there any doubt that Wallace, Green & Co were not leaders on the first Thompson teams? Was Tim Tebow not a leader on his first Florida team? People love to use the phrase "somebody's" team. It doesn't always apply. Even on a small roster like a basketball team, there's not always (rarely?) one person who leads. Work Ethic is one of those contagious things, and Jabril seems to have it. Distillation of that is one of the key things a leader can do. I think Jabril will make some level of impact here.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 12, 2011 18:46:56 GMT -5
I am pleased to see you have been put in charge of Georgetown recruiting. Yes, I did read what you wrote after it. You're free to have an opinion, but I take issue with you calling the coach an idiot in this forum. Read the rules.
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