JT III

[sleepy]

I really hate to jump on the kid becuse i lke him alot, but the telling quote on Austin was made last year by III. talking about the big leap in Austins game last year, that basketball suddenly was important to him. I don't know the kid or how hard he works, for all i know its as much physical as menta.l He is not close to the same player that he was in mid february last year.

[RDF]

Mar 19, 2011 11:00:06 GMT -5 hoyas big supporter said:

Mar 19, 2011 10:44:22 GMT -5 RDF said:

Freeman wasn't shooting well prior to injuring his ankle. He had a lot of time to recover--the team played 3 games in 18 days or something like that? How much recovery time do you need? If you are on the court--you are capable and if you aren't--it's up to him to step aside and tell coach he can't go and give someone else the chance to play.

You don't improve by quitting--and you don't improve by hoping it'll get better with more tenure either. You get better when you sit and watch the flaws---address that change in the philosophy on offense/defense is needed and most importantly you get better players. Thing is-to get better players--you've got to allow them to play on instinct and talent and then adapt to what they do well in terms of how to put together an offensive/defensive system. From there--seeing who your opponent are/what they do well/poorly--you gameplan. Then according to how a game is being played--you adapt/make adjustments.

Sports are about adjustments. Nobody is perfect and nobody is as awful/great as they seem. The teams that win understand basic principles-players with talent are not just needed--but they need to be allowed to play off talent/instinct and each season and each team you have over course of career is different. I think it's biggest issue with program right now--they don't adapt/adjust and expect results to change. Look at VCU comments about "kept waiting for them to adjust and didn't happen....." and how sad is it when an opposing player mentions "they played harder at the end of the game...."--interesting--who was in the game when that took place/who wasn't?

You can be same person--but that means you better recruit people who are self motivated, and if you can't motivate/get messages across-get coaches to help you that can or find players that are motivated by suiting up.

Either adapt/change or keep suffering same fate.

Your assessment of Austin's struggle is just stupid, but I'll just leave it at that for now since you are clearly still writing off of emotion.

Was Freeman shooting well prior to his injury?

Did he not have a long layoff between his last regular season game, his last BET game, and his last NCAA game? That's 3 games in 19 days. Chris Wright made it back from broken hand to play--Freeman was moving well enough to compete--if you are on the court--it's up to you to perform. Feel badly that Austin had shooting slump at wrong time of year--but it happens. That's basketball. How that applies to being a complete defensive liability I'll never know-but that can't be taught in 1 month and if you are allowed to get away with bad habits for 3 3/4 seasons--why would it change?

Freeman's a nice kid and was a fine offensive player. Wish he'd have gotten to enjoy more team success--but he will get his degree and play ball somewhere--be it in North America or Europe--so wish him best.

[SDHoya]

We have been beaten down the stretch the last few years by undermanned, undersized teams that quite frankly want it more. If you can't blame that on the coaching, I don't know what you can. Look, JTIII has his style, and it gets us some big wins mid season every year. Witness high rankings every January/Febrauary. But CBB is played in March. And if you can't prepare your team to go in mentally tough, fight through slumps and play with pride, then you don't belong on the sideline.

I like JTIII. I don't think it makes sense to fire him right now. But, if you don't think these are fair criticisms that he and his staff need to address, then you need to take the rose-colored glasses off.

[adlai]

Mar 19, 2011 10:44:22 GMT -5 RDF said:

Mar 19, 2011 10:29:24 GMT -5 lurkerhoya said:

I think people are underestimating the extent of Freeman's injury in all of this discussion as well. He clearly hasn't been right since the MU game, at least offensively. Between him and Chris that's our two best players basically lost in the middle of February. We knew going into the season we weren't particularly deep, and if you want to hang that on recruiting that's fine, but it boggles my mind that anyone thinks there is some coach out there that we could hire tomorrow or in a week who could have done more with this situation.

As for long term, JT3 has flaws, but NCHoya is spot on here. I'll take these losses if down the road it means winning 2 titles in 3 years (Williams) or even 20 years like Magoo. I hate to speculate, and I'm not, but maybe there was just something about this group that never quite clicked. I have no idea. But this was basically JT3's second recruiting class even though he's been here 7 years so I'm not quite ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Freeman wasn't shooting well prior to injuring his ankle. He had a lot of time to recover--the team played 3 games in 18 days or something like that? How much recovery time do you need? If you are on the court--you are capable and if you aren't--it's up to him to step aside and tell coach he can't go and give someone else the chance to play.

FWIW, Austin was shooting around 43% on the season from three before he turned his ankle and around 14% afterward. It could also have been a general slump unrelated to his ankle or his changing role with CW's injury, but he was simply not the same shooter down the stretch he was before the injury and he had been throughout his career.

[skkhoya07]

(I watched the game with some friends around VCU and they were more surprised than I was with the lack of adjustments after halftime)

At this point at the end of the season, it is difficult to blame players who have not been given the opportunity to play any soft of significant minutes.

Regardless of our player personnel and development, our team was extremely competitive all season even with our ridiculously hard schedule.

The problem seems to be that all of the good coaches from opposing teams have successfully studied our offensive movements (the same in every game for the past 7 years, honestly pick up any game tape regardless of the starting 5).

As the coach from VCU implied, it was not difficult for them (and temple before) to scout our offense and make the adjustments (clogging the middle to prevent back door cuts and staying off our 4 and 5 players who cannot and will not shoot)

I was surprised that III did not make any adjustments at halftime...but this off season will give him a chance to REACT how opposing coaches have defended his system.

[FrazierFanatic]

Coach is still learning. He is actually still relatively young for a major conference coach. What we see from the team, and from the staff, over the next 2-3 years will be very telling. It appears that the recent recruiting indicates that Coach knows that we need to get players who are more athletic and more versatile, who have length and, most importantly, have an inner fire that does not have to be constantly stoked by the coaches. I have high hopes that we will begin to climb back toward the top of the conference on a consistent basis, and will be a stronger program that does not get blown out by a midmajor team that just wants it more. No guarantees, but hopes.

[the_way]

We need better talent.

And we need an offensive scheme.

I keep hearing about the Princeton offense.

I haven't really seen it since Hibbert and crew left. And the recruits after them were supposedly better fits for the Princeton than Hibbert's crew.

I've seen us hit a lot shots and go on good shooting streaks in games over the years, but haven't seen the Princeton.

i also don't see guys with much basketball skill in the frontcourt. we have bodies with fouls to give, but its basically 4 on 5 when they are in the game.

i don't see athleticism. i don't see quickness.

everything is dependent on if we shoot the ball well or not. well, in basketball, you aren't going to shoot over 50% from 3 every night. But if you play defense, have good ball movement to create opportunities for two-point shots (a foreign concept for us it seems as of late), you can still win games.

We need a change. Its on JTIII.

In his own words, he has to "fix it". And its a lot to fix.

Its his mess. Can't blame Esh anymore. And can't use Esh's lack of success as a cushion for bad performances in the NCAA's.

Its time to step up and get this program to where it should be.

[professorhoya]

Mar 18, 2011 22:51:23 GMT -5 BeantownHoya said:

I am not pleading for his dismissal by any means but I think its fair to question if he is the right coach for this team and if he has this team moving in the right direction.

LOL. I am not trying to remove him but I think it's a fair question whether he should be removed from the team.

The low basketball IQ of the haters rears it's ugly head once again.

[harlemhoya]

Or use Esh recruits.

[SDHoya]

@frazier

JTIII - 1966

Cronin - 1971
Dixon - 1965
Wright - 1961
Buzz - 1972
Lavin - 1964

Painter - 1970
Frank Martin - 1966
Sean Miller - 1968
Billy Donovan - 1965
Self - 1962

Etc.

JTIII may be on the younger side of coaches, but he's not that young...

[FrazierFanatic]

Mar 19, 2011 12:12:09 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

@frazier

JTIII - 1966

Cronin - 1971
Dixon - 1965
Wright - 1961
Buzz - 1972
Lavin - 1964

Painter - 1970
Frank Martin - 1966
Sean Miller - 1968
Billy Donovan - 1965
Self - 1962

Etc.

JTIII may be on the younger side of coaches, but he's not that young...

I never said that he was "that young", only that he was relatively young ofr a major conference coach. I think guys like Miller, Cronin, Painter, Buzz, even Dixon are still considered relatively young coaches. JTIII has alot to learn, and still has time to learn it. Whether he does will be the key to our future.

[RBHoya]

Mar 19, 2011 7:52:02 GMT -5 calhoya said:

No interest in changing coaches, but very interested in the coach changing.

...

Stay at the school and honor it with your intelligence, class and commitment to doing things the right way. But, it is time to acknowledge that the program is stagnating and needs a tune-up. Players are expected to develop. So too, should coaches.

Very well-said. I love JTIII, he is a great guy and represents the school well. But at this point you have to think that the "strong early in the year, flame out down the stretch" thing that we seem to do annually is not just coincidence, but a trend. And since the regular season games are largely inconsequential and March is what counts, it's totally fair to look at his job performance.

It's not time for a change, for now. III is competitive and represents the school well. The team's off-the-court record is immaculate in his tenure, not 1 arrest or major incident. How many other Big East teams can say that? That carries a lot of weight with the administration. Not to mention that Pops is still essentially running the basketball program.

If we removed III, who are the other options? IMO when you look at the guys we'd consider, very few of them seem like sure bets to surpass what III's been able to do. The guy from Richmond, the guy from ODU, guy from Mason, guy from Temple, whoever is the best coach in the ivy league at the time (presently either Tommy Amaker who sucked in the BE or a III disciple in Johnson)... these are the types of guys we'd be looking at if we replaced III, and while some are good coaches, I don't really believe that any would thrive in the BE more than III has. Though I will say that if any Georgetown fan was watching last night's game and not looking at the guy running the other squad and wondering if he might be better for us, you're not paying enough attention. But he'll be off to a bigger gig in short order I'm sure.... And I'm just not sold on most of these other guys.

Recruit better. More athletic and BIGGER. Find us some athletic big guys who can play both ways. The frontline we ran out there this year was an embarrassment for "Big Man U". Find some perimeter players who can find other ways to score when their shots aren't falling, and who can play BOTH ENDS of the court. And find a way to fire these guys up. Every team in the country gets pumped up to play in the tourney except us, who are just out there "running our stuff". I used to think it was a bunch of garbage when people would say that our teams were at a disadvantage because they weren't outward with their emotions. I am now fully converted on that. You need to play with emotion and not try to do this "calm, cool and collected and just running our plays" stuff. Teams feed off the emotion and the adrenaline and play better, except for us. Stop worrying about trying to be the opposite of your dad (he even says this in his commercial!) or other coaches who are animated on the sidelines, and worry about lighting a fire under your players. Coach with passion, play with passion, don't worry about what anybody thinks.

There are more things to re-evaluate, but I do think III basically needs to go back to the drawing board. The last few years have all been flame outs. Re-evaluate, fix what is broken rather than paying lip service to that, and give us a stronger team.

[TBird41]

JTIII compares favorably with all of these coaches. He is, I think, making the adjustments that need to happen w/ regard to recruiting and assistants and, there were some hints he's starting to make the adjustments necessary with regard to game strategy/tactics.

Honestly, the only two coaches in his age group that have definitely out performed JT3 are Donovan and Self, and both have had underachieving teams recently.


JTIII - 1966: 7 years, 5 NCAAs, 1 Final Four, 1 BET, 2 BE Regular Season titles, 1 Sweet 16.

Cronin - 1971: 5 years, 1 NCAA

Dixon - 1965: 8 years, 8 NCAAs, 1 Elite 8, 2 Sweet 16s, 2 Regular season titles, 1 BET title, 3 BET Finals

Wright - 1961: 9 years, 6 NCAAs, 1 Final Four, 1 Elite 8, 2 Sweet 16s, 1 BE regular season title, no BET final appearance, 1 phone card abuse scandal

Buzz - 1972: 3 years, 3 NCAAs

Lavin - 1964: 8 years, 7 NCAAs 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16s, 1 PAC-10 regular season title

Painter - 1970: 6 years, 4 NCAAs, 2 Sweet 16s, 1 Big 10 Tournament title, 1 Big 10 regular season title

Frank Martin - 1966: 4 years, 3 NCAAs, 1 Elite 8

Sean Miller - 1968: 7 years (5 w/ Xavier), 5 NCAAs, 1 Elite 8, 1 Sweet 16, 1 PAC 10 regular season title, 3 A-10 regular season titles, 1 A-10 Tournament title

Billy Donovan - 1965: 15 years, 11 NCAAs, 2 NCAA Titles, 1 NCAA runner up, 1 NCAA Sweet 16, 3 SEC Tournament Titles, 4 SEC regular season titles

Self - 1962: 11 years, 11 NCAAs, 1 NCAA title, 3 Elite 8s, 2 Sweet 16s, 6 Conference Tournament titles, 9 regular season titles

[Filo]

Mar 19, 2011 11:28:24 GMT -5 adlai said:

Mar 19, 2011 10:44:22 GMT -5 RDF said:

Freeman wasn't shooting well prior to injuring his ankle. He had a lot of time to recover--the team played 3 games in 18 days or something like that? How much recovery time do you need? If you are on the court--you are capable and if you aren't--it's up to him to step aside and tell coach he can't go and give someone else the chance to play.

FWIW, Austin was shooting around 43% on the season from three before he turned his ankle and around 14% afterward. It could also have been a general slump unrelated to his ankle or his changing role with CW's injury, but he was simply not the same shooter down the stretch he was before the injury and he had been throughout his career.

You know, I wasn't buying the injury thing and have felt that AF just lost his stroke. I checked the numbers in BE play, though, and it is eye-opening:

3-pt shooting before Marquette: 25 of 65 for 38.5%
Marquette and after: 7 of 48 for 14.6%.

Wow. It may not have been injury-related; who knows? But, wow.

[wrestlemania]

Last night reminded me a lot of his father's post- Alonzo, non- Iverson teams - just too small and physically underdeveloped to hang with the big boys, and zero offensive game from the few bigs they have (in the end, there was not much difference between JV and Rhese Gibson). Sure, this team had more raw talent in the backcourt, but I would have taken Victor over Austin last night.

People need to stop acting as if last night was an anomaly. On average, a first round knockout is essentially what this team has been since Reggie left 25 years ago. Which suggests that if there's an issue here, it is really an institutional one.

GU has always had a tinge of ambivalence about its basketball program. If you think otherwise, ask yourself how the university managed to rebuild the whole damn campus without providing a decent practice facility that everyone acknowledges is very long overdue.

[SDHoya]

@frazier and TBird

My point was not that JTIII isn't young, nor that he doesn't compare with the others in his age group. A good coach is constantly learning, and constantly changing to meet the conditions. In theory, a younger coach should be more able to do that by bringing new eyes and new ideas to the game. So I really don't buy the argument that JTIII is young, so he still has a lot to learn. This next season will be telling though, can he demonstrate the flexibility of a good young coach? Or is he a one trick pony who did great with Esh's recruits, but now can't adjust?

[rammajamma]

Mar 19, 2011 11:27:54 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

We have been beaten down the stretch the last few years by undermanned, undersized teams that quite frankly want it more. If you can't blame that on the coaching, I don't know what you can. Look, JTIII has his style, and it gets us some big wins mid season every year. Witness high rankings every January/Febrauary. But CBB is played in March. And if you can't prepare your team to go in mentally tough, fight through slumps and play with pride, then you don't belong on the sideline.

I like JTIII. I don't think it makes sense to fire him right now. But, if you don't think these are fair criticisms that he and his staff need to address, then you need to take the rose-colored glasses off.

2x

[rammajamma]

adlai - clearly whatever is said will not change your mind, and, in all fairness there probably is not a right answer to any of this vs. a series of opinions.

My main point remains, however, that JTIII is the leader and is therefore accountable for the team's performance. His Big East record since 2006 is as follows:

2011 10-8
2010 10-8
2009 7-11
2008 15-3
2007 13-3
2006 10-6

He is 27-27 the last three seasons. I think that performance warrants review and accountability. To quote an earlier post, I am no advocating changing the coach, but the coach needs to change.

Peace be with you.

[whipple]

Can we talk about scheduling? Strength of Schedule only matters for bubble teams. I see that our ooc-opponents may not be doing great in the tourney, but why force your team to show your cards so early?
Why play Temple? Fran Dunphy has nothing to lose by exposing the weaknesses in the gtown/Princeton offense through experimentation and physical defense. When we first took down Duke with all those back-cuts it was a surprise. No longer is that the case. Us running the ball is the surprise. The 5 making a post move is a surprise. Any adjustment at half is the surprise. (sorry, that was emotion talking)

I'm all for scheduling some tough opponents early, but wouldn't that be a great time to get some good bench playing time and experiment with defenses? The season is long enough for college kids, don't make it drag on with all these mentally and physically draining games all winter.

There is no need to hand over our game plan by December and even less reason to believe that we can get away with our offense after everyone and his mother has the blueprints (and grayprints).

Oh and WAG shirts need to eliminate the III . . .

[skyhoya]

SD, one trick pony, time for the administration to talk to the Thompsons about stepping it up to play i n the BE