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Post by michaeldm9 on Feb 1, 2011 11:07:19 GMT -5
For the life of me I cannot understand the commitment to Vee's development via playing time. 90 % of the time Vee has played, he has been contributor and made an impact to Gtown wins. Vee 3pt buckets before half is the difference in the Villanova game. Also take a look at his performance in the pre-season. Now when I look at Jerrelle he has made numerous bone head mental mistakes. There has not been one game I can say I am glad he played and he made a difference in the game. Last night he she have passed the ball on the break. He has made numerous bad passes and drops where it seems he is not mentally concentrating. He is not a monster on the boards nor defense. What does he bring to the table. Getting to the point. Why is Jerrelle receiving playing time and Vee does not. I don't get it. Vee should eat up all of Jerrelle playing time. I am a huge GTown fan and a JTIII supporter. But I love Gtown does not jade my eyes to see that there is an inequity going on with Vee. I know I am not privy to practice to know what's going on there, but Vee has been a contributor to the GTown success during game. Vee needs more playing time to increase his confidence so when tournament time comes he is ready. I just hope we are not looking at another transfer at the end of the season. If I was his parents I would not like what I am seeing. MOD NOTE: please read the board rules - transfer speculation and rumors about player status are discouraged here.
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superan
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Post by superan on Feb 1, 2011 11:12:21 GMT -5
Welcome to the board, you will find virtually everyone agreeing with you on this topic.
I do want to say though that JB played great defense yesterday (as did everyone). He made bad decisions on the offensive end but let's not trash his play completely.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 1, 2011 11:13:00 GMT -5
Well, for one thing, they play different positions. JB spells the 4 for the most part. And second, may I suggest you kill the transfer speculation?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 1, 2011 11:13:31 GMT -5
Jerelle is a big man. We don't have a lot of really talented big men. So there are available minutes / minutes that he is needed. He is competing with Vaughn, Sims, Lubick and Hollis for minutes at power forward. Good players, but not able to play 35+ minutes due to conditioning/fouls/injuries/being undersized, etc.
Vee is a (shooting) guard and he doesn't have good enough of a handle right now to be the primary ball hander. We have a TON of really talented guards. There are very, very few minutes available at the 2 and the 3. He is competing with Austin Freeman (BE Preseason POY), Chris Wright, Jason Clark and Hollis Thompson. There's a lot more talent there, and the players aren't particularly foul prone and have the ability to play the entire game. There just aren't minutes available.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 1, 2011 11:14:20 GMT -5
To put it another way, why does Nate Lubick get minutes while Vee doesn't?
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 1, 2011 11:16:00 GMT -5
Because we are deeper at the guard spot then then the frontcourt.
As everyone knows, I'm one of the biggest Jerrelle "haters" but he does have a role on this team. And that is to give a breather to Nate Lubick. There is no way Nate could be playing as much as would be required if it was only him and Hollis playing the 4. The main reason why Jerelle gets these "breather" minutes aren't his skills (basktball or dancing) but because he does fight while he is out there.
As HSB said in another thread, there has to have been an injury/sickness the last couple of games when he got no PT since we are seeing his PT return closer to his preBE numbers.
Please don't transfer Vee, BE 6th Man of the Year next year then BE POY you're SR year...you can do it!!!
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Feb 1, 2011 11:19:01 GMT -5
Plus Markel, who the program is pretty much all in on. That's really where his minutes are going. I wouldn't be too concerned about Vee going anywhere, he'll have every chance to earn 20+ minutes a game next season.
Pure conjecture, but it's possible that JT3 feels Vee's development has hit a ceiling with respect to the playing time he can give him. As in, Markel needs those minutes more right now to be what we need him to be next year. Coach may be very comfortable with where Vee is for what he needs to be next year.
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ScreamingHoya
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Post by ScreamingHoya on Feb 1, 2011 11:21:15 GMT -5
I'm sick and tired of Julian starting over Vee. Yeah, I think this is about the hundredth thread on the board regarding Vee not getting enough playing time, and I agree- with Jason having an off night last night, I was hoping to see him on the court more. But Jerrelle and Vee are apples and oranges.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 1, 2011 11:23:30 GMT -5
Vee's time will come. he's in a spot where he's behind 2 of the better guards GU has ever had and a 3rd who's pretty good as well. factor in Hollis getting more minutes at the 3 and the need to develop next years PG, he kind of is squeezed out.
unless we want to see heavy doses of Hollis at the 4, Jerrelle is going to get his 5 or so minutes a game.
yes, his play can be cringe worthy at time. Probably part of the reason he has seen his playing time decreased the past month. but for those 5-10 minutes, it's not the end of the world. He is at least capable of bringing good defense.
That said, I would like more Vee, be it just 5 minutes a game. Or when Jason has an off night. I don't think anyone would say Vee hasn't earned more time. It's just probably not going to happen.
(no need for people to bring up the thoughts of a transfer with him every time his name is mentioned. His HS coach said when he committed that he'll have a role, and he'll do whatever the staff needs. let's put some faith in that. all he has to do is look at Henry to see if he keeps at it, he'll be rewarded)
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 1, 2011 11:27:05 GMT -5
Similar Threads from the Past:
Macklin v. Jeremiah
Wesley v. Trenton
Boubacar v. Jameel
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Feb 1, 2011 11:31:04 GMT -5
Yeah I don't think many on this board disagree that Vee does more out there than Jerrelle. But right now, we've played a whole lot better going big than going small, so Jerrelle needs to be in for Nate to catch a breather. Hollis can't be the sole backup 4.
Vee is just a gamer. It always impresses me how he makes something good happen no matter how long he's out there for. Cannot wait to see him 20 minutes a game next year. He's going to infuriate opponents.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 1, 2011 11:33:39 GMT -5
If Vee is patient and smart, his time to shine here will come. It's simply a matter of being stuck behind better players right now.
I love the kid and wouldn't object to him getting more playing time, but I have to say I'm more than a little over the repetitive posts of his supporters - especially those who have recently joined the board with the sole intention of pushing this fairly irrelevant topic.
The team is ROLLING right now. There's no reason to change things up dramatically at the moment.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Feb 1, 2011 11:43:26 GMT -5
Player development is a driver of which subs get how much time. The bigger driver is winning games. And quite frankly, I'm not sure how much more time would possibly have been available in the backcourt for Vee even if Coach wanted him in for more time, Clark, Free, and Hollis pretty much have the 2-3 spots on lockdown in the new big lineup. FWIW, Vee has already eclipsed his minutes (138) and points (59) versus last year (130 and 33), in 12 fewer team games so far. He is also outperforming last year's rates in almost all other statistical categories. So he is playing a bigger role for the team, even if the increased playing time is coming in fits and starts, and not as fast as many on the board would like to see.
I am very excited to see what next season's Vee brings to the table from the sixth man position, and I am okay with getting glimpses of it this season, if it means more time from our All-BIG EAST guards in the meantime.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 1, 2011 11:43:56 GMT -5
I'm just surprised the Mods have not edited or deleted the transfer speculation part of the post, parents and all...
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 1, 2011 11:46:06 GMT -5
How can anyone make this comparison? Jerrelle and Vee play completely different positions.
I think this topic about Vee's playing time has been overdone on this board. No one dislikes the Vee, but the guy is stuck behind too much talent. He is not a PG so he does not get the same opportunity as Markel. I am sure Vee understands this situation. It really is not as complicated as everyone wants it to be and Vee signed with GU with his eyes wide open.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 1, 2011 11:47:24 GMT -5
What I don't understand is how people can't understand. I get that you might disagree. I get the play Vee more argument (Heck, I've made it, even at PF). I get the frustration with Jerelle (I spent most of last year disagreeing with his cult). I don't get that you don't understand.What I'm fairly sure is running through Coach Thompson's mind as relevant points: - We're going to win or lose this year with our upperclassmen. They need to be on the floor. And three of them are guards.
- Vee is currently fifth in the guard rotation. He's good, but he's behind the upperclassmen and Markel, who is playing PG for the next three years.
- We've been playing too small -- I need to get Hollis more at the 3 and some size down low. That's more minutes for Nate and some minutes for Jerelle as his backup.
- I want to reward hardworking players who play strong D and do the dirty work.
- Jerelle is a good defender.
Now, you can certainly come up with counterpoints to these (Vee is an excellent defender; Jerelle's offense negates his D; the big three could use more rest; Vee is better than Markel right now) and all those are legit, too. I'm not saying Coach is right. But it's completely understandable. This isn't inexplicable.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Feb 1, 2011 11:49:06 GMT -5
I'll be play devil's advocate briefly: I believe playing Starks over Vee makes sense as the first G off the bench and not only to help the future hoyas once Chris + Austin graduate.
While Vee does GREAT things for the team with his limited minutes, he also is the most likely player on the team to freelance. More often than not, that's worked for him and produced good things. But for the team to gel and maximize, players need to do the right thing well, not just a thing well.
When Vee does what he's supposed to--and last night was a great example of that--I wish he'd get more minutes. In large part so that he can see that playing in the system helps his case + the team's case the most.
For example, a hypothetical that I've seen happen but can't put to a specific situation: fans see Vee get a steal off of his quick hands. What the coaches might see is Vee leaving his man--a dead eye 3 point shooter--wide open to go for the steal. It's like coach said about Chris's ridiculous shot last night: it's a "no no no no no...YES!" moment. A coach will accept those from seniors + stars more than from bench players.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Feb 1, 2011 11:56:37 GMT -5
Vee is very productive in his limited time now, but we should be happy we're seeing him on the floor at all at this point. When else has JTIII ever had a true 10 man rotation?
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Feb 1, 2011 12:02:59 GMT -5
I am the biggest Vee supporter on the board, but it's apples and steak, no comparision. If you are going to pick on JB, we should ask why not Moese? Perhaps Moses isn't ready, if he were, he would get PT.
Love VEE, would love to see more PT, but III has him as the fifth guard or maybe sixth, now that Hollis is playing a lot of the three time. Vee is a much smaller, quicker version of Hollis.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 1, 2011 12:05:06 GMT -5
Again there could be many reasons for vee's lack of playing time @ rutgers and @ seton hall: injury, sickness, discipline, poor showing in practice. He's played every other game besides ODU where it came out he was sick. He's been playing, maybe not as much time as some would like, but he's getting into games.
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