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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 12, 2011 12:52:54 GMT -5
Whatever Sarah Palin is, two words cannot be used to describe her statement, political identity and rhetoric - classy and Christian.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 12, 2011 13:07:37 GMT -5
Whatever Sarah Palin is, two words cannot be used to describe her statement, political identity and rhetoric - classy and Christian. See she does have something in common with Barry O. Neither can be described as classy or Christian. Nice of Barry to describe how France is our closest ally. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 12, 2011 13:12:24 GMT -5
Whatever Sarah Palin is, two words cannot be used to describe her statement, political identity and rhetoric - classy and Christian. Those adjectives describe about 1% of the professional left during this entire tragedy. Criticize her all you want. At least she was responding to untrue and unfair accusations leveled against her, not inventing them. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 12, 2011 13:41:32 GMT -5
I have not read much of what has been said by elected officials on the left, but I am unaware of anyone, except Ed (presumably satire), who claimed that she caused the violence. That is a straw man that the professional right continues to put out there.
What the left has said and will say is that rhetoric has consequences. An Arizona Republican resigned today apparently due to the tone of rhetoric and threats against him, whoever is responsible. He seemed perfectly rational in doing so. Sarah Palin seemed opposed to the rhetoric of the Ground Zero mosque and the "message" it would purportedly send to terrorists but only became opposed to rhetoric when she would not benefit politically.
Perhaps this is why she gave up the farm in her statement. The key words were not blood libel, but, rather, "serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn." So, journalists and pundits can inflame hatred and violence through words, but magic Palin cannot?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 12, 2011 13:51:54 GMT -5
I did not claim "elected officials," I claimed professional left. But I'd cite Bernie Sanders and the Puma County Sheriff as just a couple who have gone somewhat beyond the pale. Dick Durbin has also not really acquitted himself very well.
I'd also remind you that Sarah Palin is not an elected official either.
Finally, let's stop playing games. When you say "rhetoric has consequences" when speaking in the context of this incident, you are making an implicit connection - a fictional one, but a connection nevertheless - and you know it.
To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best. Outright blinded by partisanship or completely cynical at worst.
FWIW, I actually expect the President to deliver an exceptional speech today. I think he will rightly ignore those on his side of the aisle who might encourage him to make any political points in his address. And I will have no problems with applauding him for a job well done in that case.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 12, 2011 13:59:11 GMT -5
I am not, Boz, so stop trying to create the straw man. The one person to make that connection in this thread was Ed, presumably a satirist. For someone so concerned about not making connections in rhetoric, on this point, you seem to be drawing connections wildly.
My statement was that I would not trust someone like Loughner with a Palin target map. Who would? Would you? It is a rather simple question, and I think most of us would agree, including Sarah Palin by her statement. You can bet that if someone tried to mail the map to Loughner right now, the jail officials would not let it through - all for good reason. (And ditto on the DLC map or whatever it was.)
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 12, 2011 14:32:09 GMT -5
You shouldn't use that word, kc. Have you learned nothing? I actually thought about using a different word, but left it in there to see if anyone would say anything. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 12, 2011 14:39:31 GMT -5
At this point, I'm pretty sick of the rhetoric (rep) about the rhetoric (dem) about the rhetoric (rep) that likely didn't have any impact on this shooting.
And now you can be sick of my rhetoric, too. Can we just let people grieve and stop talking about it period? Both sides are awful.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 12, 2011 14:58:40 GMT -5
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 12, 2011 21:41:32 GMT -5
Remarkably, even the mastermind of the most partisan and divisive TV network in American History can see what the right wing posters on the B&G board refuse to acknowledge. I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually. You don't have to do it with bombast.Roger Ailes, President, Fox "News"
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 12, 2011 23:50:43 GMT -5
Remarkably, even the mastermind of the most partisan and divisive TV network in American History can see what the right wing posters on the B&G board refuse to acknowledge. I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually. You don't have to do it with bombast.Roger Ailes, President, Fox "News"
"If this tragedy prompts reflection and debate, as it should, let’s make sure it’s worthy of those we have lost. Let’s make sure it’s not on the usual plane of politics and point scoring and pettiness that drifts away with the next news cycle." |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 13, 2011 1:23:17 GMT -5
I was struck by the grace shown by the First Lady all night, particularly with the Congresswoman's husband and the student who sat between the President and former Justice O'Connor.
The moment when it was announced that the Congresswoman opened her eyes was moving and genuine more than anything said or done during the day. Even better that people were there to witness the miracle, and I believe that the timing and who was in the room was no coincidence. What a remarkable story when, I think, most people thought she would die - I am still stunned by this.
If there's a moment that will be replayed again and again, it will be the eyes opening moment. If eyes can be opened for the need to change tone and reflect, great, but that in many ways is a tougher problem than that facing the Congresswoman right now, and the path to change tone is much longer, and actual, sincere reflection will be required.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 13, 2011 10:19:15 GMT -5
Jusr curious here. When the President states "now is not the time to point fingers", does he not imply that there are in fact fingers to be pointed?
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 13, 2011 10:22:29 GMT -5
Jusr curious here. When the President states "now is not the time to point fingers", does he not imply that there are in fact fingers to be pointed? No, he implies that fingers are presently being pointed (e.g. "Sarah Palin has blood on her hands!" or Virginia Foxx's "Loughner was the liberal of all liberals", blood libel, etc etc). Great speech last night - he managed to keep it all about the victims while simultaneously making the point of the larger message. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 13, 2011 10:30:47 GMT -5
Thank you for clearing that up. I didn't think he would stoop so low. now had it been our best ally Sarkozy, maybe another story.
What by the way was the "larger message"? There is nothing larger than human life.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 13, 2011 10:47:20 GMT -5
I think Obama did a fine job.
Like some others today, I found the atmosphere to be rather peculiar and, at times, perhaps inappropriate (t-shirts? really? this isn't Midnight Madness). However, none of that is a reflection on the President, IMO. I don't think he did anything to try to encourage that and, instead, gave a very good address.
And kudos to Michelle Obama as well...for wearing sleeves.
(Oh, calm down. Just joking. She served very well also in sitting with Gabby's husband.)
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 13, 2011 10:50:39 GMT -5
I think Obama did a fine job. Like some others today, I found the atmosphere to be rather peculiar and, at times, perhaps inappropriate (t-shirts? really? this isn't Midnight Madness). However, none of that is a reflection on the President, IMO. I don't think he did anything to try to encourage that and, instead, gave a very good address. And kudos to Michelle Obama as well...for wearing sleeves. (Oh, calm down. Just joking. She served very well also in sitting with Gabby's husband.) Is the bar for Barry and Michelle really this low? She sat next to the husband. Yippee!! Is there any First Lady who would not have? It boggles my mind that she is being credited for essentially showing up and doing nothing stupid. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 13, 2011 11:03:28 GMT -5
Oh, I don't want to make this about her. I was just making a joke.
(Actually I think it is very difficult to know the best way to act around people who are grieving, so I do give her credit. But yes, as a politician's wife, I'm sure she is very well versed in that type of situation).
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 13, 2011 11:24:58 GMT -5
I did not watch the speech so I can't comment on the President's delivery, the t-shirts or the First Lady's sleeves. But, I just read the entire speech and, in one word, outstanding.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 13, 2011 11:44:08 GMT -5
I was struck by the grace shown by the First Lady all night, particularly with the Congresswoman's husband and the student who sat between the President and former Justice O'Connor. The moment when it was announced that the Congresswoman opened her eyes was moving and genuine more than anything said or done during the day. Even better that people were there to witness the miracle, and I believe that the timing and who was in the room was no coincidence. What a remarkable story when, I think, most people thought she would die - I am still stunned by this. If there's a moment that will be replayed again and again, it will be the eyes opening moment. If eyes can be opened for the need to change tone and reflect, great, but that in many ways is a tougher problem than that facing the Congresswoman right now, and the path to change tone is much longer, and actual, sincere reflection will be required. So you're saying Obama has miraculous healing powers and it's no surprise that after he blessed the congresswoman with his presence, she opened her eyes? Or is Pelosi the one with the divine touch? I'm going to go with Pelosi because I think she's now physically incapable of actually closing her eyes. |
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