Soft team under Thompson

[seaweed]

hardy is a top scorer in the league, leads his team - it is a wonder his coach wanted to ball in his hands. you should be a coach

you are unique and nobody understands the game as you do. please, tell us more. more about the shortcomings of the teenagers who play for us. more about the coach who runs a program we all respect. tell us how better the world would be if only you were in charge. i am now more than ever convinced that you are a troglodyte who bets too much on sports

[RDF]

Jan 5, 2011 12:22:33 GMT -5 seaweed said:

hardy is a top scorer in the league, leads his team - it is a wonder his coach wanted to ball in his hands. you should be a coach

you are unique and nobody understands the game as you do. please, tell us more. more about the shortcomings of the teenagers who play for us. more about the coach who runs a program we all respect. tell us how better the world would be if only you were in charge. i am now more than ever convinced that you are a troglodyte who bets too much on sports

The wreak of desperation is upon us. I stated what Lavin said-yes we all know that about Hardy--so isn't that indictive of a poor coaching decision by III? More you respond--more you make my points for me--please keep it up. Other night it was "please provide time of game where Jason Clark got beat on defense" and now it's "I'm being too mean" for saying Clark can't play defense. It was "Clark is great defender because III puts him on best offensive player"-but then it's "We all know Hardy is doing this"-well how did it turn out? You guys out of Georgetown yet and into the real world? END RESULT MATTERS--not the formula. Again--what is the end result? Of the game other night? Of Clark's defense for 2 1/2 seasons? Of team's record since this group has played? Of team since III has utilized small ball approach?

Since you guys get on me for repeating things--how about this one aspect you won't address---where have I been proven wrong? Please share it. I've read frustration from you that has resorted into personal attacks--and from several--so what's your answer? What would you do? Why isn't the coach getting the results? I defended the players the other night--they only do what they are told/play because they are in the game. They are trying-and against SJU they played hard--but that doesn't absolve coach for putting people in wrong position?

So now the rules of messageboard or being a "fan" are to not discuss any shortcomings of a player or discuss what is/isn't happening? See how long this place exists with that type of approach and I know DFW/Dan and company have no issue with program being discussed as long as it follows guidelines. For all the crap I deserve/earned from you guys--this is an odd time to go on the warpath. Especially Seaweed--seriously--you don't answer anything--you respond with nothing but an attack and have nothing to back it up but "Jason's great because coach is playing him".

Maybe I should be thankful I didn't attend Georgetown--because it seems many who did--seem to support doing things that don't work but in theory sound good because the boss says so. Who cares if the team is losing--III sees the game this way and lord knows--only a coach knows best. Sometimes a coach can be too close to things--and it's on his assistants to step up and say "This is not working". It hasnt/isn't/won't. If that means I'm undeducated or not intelligent--then I'm a proud member of DUMBASS HOYA FANS R US--because I'd rather be dumb and see team win then be "smart" and lose.

[williambraskyiii]

Jan 5, 2011 12:57:45 GMT -5 RDF said:

Jan 5, 2011 12:22:33 GMT -5 seaweed said:

hardy is a top scorer in the league, leads his team - it is a wonder his coach wanted to ball in his hands. you should be a coach

you are unique and nobody understands the game as you do. please, tell us more. more about the shortcomings of the teenagers who play for us. more about the coach who runs a program we all respect. tell us how better the world would be if only you were in charge. i am now more than ever convinced that you are a troglodyte who bets too much on sports

The wreak of desperation is upon us. I stated what Lavin said-yes we all know that about Hardy--so isn't that indictive of a poor coaching decision by III? More you respond--more you make my points for me--please keep it up. Other night it was "please provide time of game where Jason Clark got beat on defense" and now it's "I'm being too mean" for saying Clark can't play defense. It was "Clark is great defender because III puts him on best offensive player"-but then it's "We all know Hardy is doing this"-well how did it turn out? You guys out of Georgetown yet and into the real world? END RESULT MATTERS--not the formula. Again--what is the end result? Of the game other night? Of Clark's defense for 2 1/2 seasons? Of team's record since this group has played? Of team since III has utilized small ball approach?

Since you guys get on me for repeating things--how about this one aspect you won't address---where have I been proven wrong? Please share it. I've read frustration from you that has resorted into personal attacks--and from several--so what's your answer? What would you do? Why isn't the coach getting the results? I defended the players the other night--they only do what they are told/play because they are in the game. They are trying-and against SJU they played hard--but that doesn't absolve coach for putting people in wrong position?

So now the rules of messageboard or being a "fan" are to not discuss any shortcomings of a player or discuss what is/isn't happening? See how long this place exists with that type of approach and I know DFW/Dan and company have no issue with program being discussed as long as it follows guidelines. For all the crap I deserve/earned from you guys--this is an odd time to go on the warpath. Especially Seaweed--seriously--you don't answer anything--you respond with nothing but an attack and have nothing to back it up but "Jason's great because coach is playing him".

Maybe I should be thankful I didn't attend Georgetown--because it seems many who did--seem to support doing things that don't work but in theory sound good because the boss says so. Who cares if the team is losing--III sees the game this way and lord knows--only a coach knows best. Sometimes a coach can be too close to things--and it's on his assistants to step up and say "This is not working". It hasnt/isn't/won't. If that means I'm undeducated or not intelligent--then I'm a proud member of DUMBASS HOYA FANS R US--because I'd rather be dumb and see team win then be "smart" and lose.

Once a poster defaults to "at least our coach runs a clean program" you have officially entered Esherickian Twilight Zone.

[staggerlee]

I agree with a lot of RDF's opinion. For example, Coach used Rivers effectively, as described. Not using Vee on Hardy in a similar fashion was a bad move. I haven't gone back to the tape, but I recall thinking that Vee was much more effective in that position while I watched the game.

[upstatehoya]

Jan 5, 2011 13:07:45 GMT -5 williambraskyiii said:

Once a poster defaults to "at least our coach runs a clean program" you have officially entered Esherickian Twilight Zone.

Love this. I think III runs a good program, I think that when we have athletes with skill and size, a system that has us playing smarter than everyone else makes our team look really good. We just have a few glaring offensive issues at the moment, and I'm not sure how III is to blame/fixes them:

1. CW's shot looks awful right now. No rotation on the ball, no arc -- and he's missing left/right (as opposed to long/short), which is the mark of someone who just doesn't have his shot down. Sometimes he rushes, sometimes he passes up open looks, I just don't know what's going on here or how to fix it short of shooting drills all day. But it leads to problem #2.

2. Our dribble penetration is pretty weak. When we spread out, and the defense follows, we can attack the rim -- witness JC's and-1 at the end of the SJU game. We just don't do that a lot -- we have a bunch of offensive sets where we have a lot of hand-offs around the perimeter and don't attack the space this creates in the paint. When we do attack, Austin's pretty good at it, and he can finish in traffic. Hollis doesn't drive as much as he probably should, but it's probably a confidence issue and he'll get there. CW's problem is that he's about five inches too short to attack the rim when it's defended. Thus, when his shot's not falling, he presses and tries to take it to the rack but has a hard time finishing. As a team, we have to figure out how to use his penetration (and the kid's jet-engine fast, he can blow by his man with ease) to set up open mid-ranges or follow-on layups by our bigger guys. Maybe this is where III can shift how we're playing this year.

3. The offensive sets. When you have skilled big men, the other team expends defensive energy keeping them out of the paint. It opens lanes for cutters and easy buckets. Monroe was a master of this, as was Roy before him. When the passing sets up easy buckets, you have to collapse the D to contain the cutting lanes, which frees perimeter shooters for open looks. We have JV, who has really worked his butt off to improve his offensive game...but who needs more practice with passing/ball protection. Once he gets that, he'll be a featured weapon that opens the game up for everyone.

If we can fix the offense to the point that we're an efficient scoring team, I think our defense is competent enough to win a lot of games for us.

[Bando]

Jesus, people, this thread is six pages. Really? The rule still applies: don't feed the trolls.

[JohnnyJones]

Jan 5, 2011 12:22:05 GMT -5 RDF said:

I'll also admit when I'm wrong/or commend the players/team for playing well. Anyone with a history here--like me or not--will vouch for that. I'll eat crow ... and I'll be first to start a thread/admit I was wrong. Being critical isn't being a "bad" fan. It's sharing frustration on a messageboard outlet to discuss the team. If anyone is a Hoya fan-they want them to win. I'd rather be wrong/see team win/succeed then watch a game and see the same things discussed here play out in another painful loss.

I have also been on since the old Board and I will vouch for all of what I quoted above 100%. While I don't always agree with RDF, I almost always enjoy reading his posts and am interested in his perspective. I am not an Xs/Os fan, so I am not sure whether he knows what he is talking about, but my gut tells me he knows the game. Having said that, I have chosen to trust III. My hope/expectation is that if our current problems can be fixed by the coaching staff, III will figure it out and do what needs to be done.

I am not sure how the archive function works on the site, but I wish I could find RDF's post from many years ago about Jay Bilas (before JB fell in love with GU and GU fans fell in love with him). Funny stuff. Keep posting RDF.

[Boz]

Jan 5, 2011 13:39:11 GMT -5 Bando said:

Jesus, people, this thread is six pages. Really? The rule still applies: don't feed the trolls.

As usual, on any topic that is NOT religion or politics, Bando and I are in 100% agreement.

[biggmanu]

This thread has gone overboard. We were winning with 19 seconds left about to steal a road win in the big east and it just barely slipped away. A soft team doesn't have the opportunity to win a close game. Get over yourselves. Clark could have been a hero if his foot didn't come down out of bounds.

[chep3]

Jan 5, 2011 12:07:33 GMT -5 RDF said:

Sometimes guys get assignments because they are better then other poor options. Defensively--that sums up this group. My issue--like others--why doesn't he at least use his bench in a manner that creates roles? For instance--he did this with Rivers. Jeremiah wasn't one of his best players--but when it came time to get a stop--he'd put him out there. Why isn't that happening now? His best on ball defender in the backcourt is Vee Sanford. Sanford provides length and more importantly an understanding of how to play defense. He doesn't crowd guys who will take him off the dribble, he gives space, he doesn't lay off shooters--he crowds them. He has good technique--which means good balance and moves his feet well. He also shades-which allows him to recover well--Jason came right at Hardy--which is awful--he was off balance and minute Hardy went left--Jason's feet were screwed up/off balance.

Skipping the entire Editeding match that inevitably dominated this thread, but I just wanted to quote the part I saw that I agreed with. To me, RDF is dead on with this: this has to happen. Jason has shown himself over the past 2 years to not be quick enough to check other teams scorers. Vee hasn't proven himself to be a lockdown defender, but what he's shown so far indicates that he has that potential and that he's certainly the best we got on the roster. I don't see why Vee can't go out there at least situationally like Rivers did to see what he can give us. He moves his feet much bigger, uses his length, and sticks with guys enough to contest shots. Go back to the ND game and see how much trouble he was giving Hansbrough whereas Hansbrough was turning the corner on Jason and Chris much more easily. And the thing about Vee is, unlike Rivers, we're not playing 4 on 5 on offense when he's out there. I'm not saying he should be starting or getting more minutes than Jason. Jason is still the superior offensive player (this slump notwithstanding), but there is room for more Vee in our diet just like there was room for Rivers back in the day. I'm as staunch a JTIII defender as anyone on this board, but he's getting this one wrong. You can't keep riding a guy and expecting him to do things he's not capable of.

In fact, now that I like our PG depth (Markel and Vee), out of our starting lineup, I think Chris should draw the other team's best scorer. He's not a great defender and he has no length, but Jason's not using his length either by playing too close to the ballhandler instead of giving him space and letting his long arms make up the ground when he contests. Chris might give up more outside shots, but at this point I'll take our chances.

[calhoya]

None of this should be an issue. If you recruit quality and want to continue to recruit quality, then you have to find PT for the bench. This team should consider that it has 6 perimeter players ready and able to contribute--counting Hollis. We have at least 3 posts (not counting Hollis), with more limited contributions coming from Jerelle and possibly Moses. The "system" whatever the hell that means anymore should use them all. Not equal time for everyone, but recognition that we have more athletes right now than last yeaer and can afford to go harder and longer on defense than in the past. Full court pressure will wear down our players--let's give some of that back with our defense.

[bronxhoya87]

Jan 5, 2011 13:39:11 GMT -5 Bando said:

Jesus, people, this thread is six pages. Really? The rule still applies: don't feed the trolls.

Way to contribute.....on to 7 pages with your help.

Trolls...care to explain. If people do not agree with you they are trolls? Just how long have you been a fan young man?

[HometownHoya]

[Bando]

You know, Bronxie, if I were self-aware enough to realize that my opinions swung wildly between every win or loss, I would view it as a character flaw to be corrected, rather than an opportunity to once again cause a storm on the board.

Furthermore, saying the team is "soft" or lacks "heart" are bull critiques. It's the easiest thing in the world to frame your griping in the form of immeasurable intangibles. It's much harder to actually analyze what's going on, which is why the Hoya Prospectus guys are great, and you're a troll.

[bronxhoya87]

Jan 6, 2011 13:03:10 GMT -5 Bando said:

You know, Bronxie, if I were self-aware enough to realize that my opinions swung wildly between every win or loss, I would view it as a character flaw to be corrected, rather than an opportunity to once again cause a Editedstorm on the board.

Furthermore, saying the team is "soft" or lacks "heart" are bullEdited critiques. It's the easiest thing in the world to frame your griping in the form of immeasurable intangibles. It's much harder to actually analyze what's going on, which is why the Hoya Prospectus guys are great, and you're a troll.

You foolish mortal you cannot debate what Bronxie says so you call Bronxie names. Typical of foolish surface dwellers.

[superan]

Bronxie's post count is 666 right now.

Nothing to see here folks. Just walk away from the temptation.

[chep3]

Cmon, bronxie deserves some props for "you foolish mortal." That had me chuckling at my desk.

[FrazierFanatic]

Jan 6, 2011 15:51:10 GMT -5 superan said:

Bronxie's post count is 666 right now.

Nothing to see here folks. Just walk away from the temptation.

We are all condemned to the 7th circle of Bronxie! repent!

[bronxhoya87]

If you cant defensive rebound every year you are soft. Bronxie plays ball...the only thing that will start fights (verbal and otherwise) between teammates is not defensive rebounding. You cant guard someone...... cool, switch......but defensive rebounding is akin to a running game in football. Running at your opponent is all about manhood and will.

[FrazierFanatic]

Bronxie - we outrebounded STJ - and Depaul - and Memphis, Missouri, Temple. ND outrebounded us by 2. Does the rebounding angle play as well this year as in the past?