OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 10, 2011 11:31:20 GMT -5
Earlier in the year Adrian Branch commented that last year even with the 6'11" Monroe the Hoyas were not considered to be intimidating. In other words "soft" in the middle. Teams have figured out that if you clog the middle and stay close to guy trying to cut backdoor, seem to eventually give the hard cuts to the basket and just mill around on the perimeter looking for the 3 pointer. I remember last year many commentators talking about how late in the backdoor cut the Hoya passers would make pass. This required a hard cut all the way to the basket and then back again with same intensity. Right now you don't see that hard cut all the way to the other side of the floor and setting pick on other side and hard cut back the other way. In other words continuous movement. I know spacing and floor balance has to be done, but it seems to me the big forward or center making that back door pass never follows that pass to the basket in case the cutter misses shot. He knows pass is going to be made so he can get to basket before the rest of the team. This is where I disagree with the notion that big 3 have to be on the floor all the time. If they are not continuously moving like the system requires then they are not creating the openings the system is suppose to create, therefore others should be given chance to show that they can make these movements. Remember this system was designed to be run by players who were not All Americans, who did not have the handle to beat their man off the dribble. It was designed for the backcut to replace the dribble drive as method to get layup. It requires contiuos movement though and a commitment to hard cuts allthe way to other side not hard first 4 steps then a jog if cut does not create immediate opening.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2011 12:27:23 GMT -5
OldHoya, we have convinced ourselves that we are a perimeter shooting team and will rise and fall on our 3's. We need to change our mindset, make the hard cuts and THEN continue out to the 3-point line to either make the defender follow and clear out the middle for the next cutter or come open for the 3. The cuts can even work against a zone IF they are hard enough, since the cutter then draws one and often two defenders, opening the floor for passes and outside shots.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,007
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 10, 2011 12:31:56 GMT -5
OldHoya, we have convinced ourselves that we are a perimeter shooting team and will rise and fall on our 3's. We need to change our mindset, make the hard cuts and THEN continue out to the 3-point line to either make the defender follow and clear out the middle for the next cutter or come open for the 3. The cuts can even work against a zone IF they are hard enough, since the cutter then draws one and often two defenders, opening the floor for passes and outside shots. I re-watched part of this last game and there were almost no hard cuts on the backdoors. We basically gave up on them. Lots of jogging, and one or two turnovers early where the passer threw the ball where the player was supposed to be, but he was just going through the motions. |
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Post by upstatehoya on Jan 10, 2011 12:47:33 GMT -5
I'm actually surprised at how seldom we try to execute mid-range game. If you can't nail NBA threes and you don't have big men that can operate in the paint, the only way you can create the space for cutters is by nailing mid-range jumpers to unclog the lane. Then cutters/JV can chip in with easy buckets to take the pressure off our guards, who won't have to press hard from outside. I was encouraged by Austin's shooting and JC's drives today, and I think that if the rest of the team catches its collective breath, we can turn this bad boy around.
That will, of course, require our defense to rise to the level of "competence" from its current residence in the "abysmal" mire. I think parts of the problem will require III's efforts for most of the year, but there really is no excuse for not boxing out. That needs to start happening immediately.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,645
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Post by prhoya on Jan 10, 2011 13:32:36 GMT -5
OldHoya, we have convinced ourselves that we are a perimeter shooting team and will rise and fall on our 3's. We need to change our mindset, make the hard cuts and THEN continue out to the 3-point line to either make the defender follow and clear out the middle for the next cutter or come open for the 3. The cuts can even work against a zone IF they are hard enough, since the cutter then draws one and often two defenders, opening the floor for passes and outside shots. I re-watched part of this last game and there were almost no hard cuts on the backdoors. We basically gave up on them. Lots of jogging, and one or two turnovers early where the passer threw the ball where the player was supposed to be, but he was just going through the motions. SF, during the game, you and I commented about JV's TOs down low. Your comment, IIRC, was more about why he keeps making the same mistakes. My comment was along the lines that JV at least looked for the other players before going for the basket, but the other players were not moving. To me, after not seeing the other players moving, he looked like "f$%k it, I'm going for it" and proceeded to make the dumb mistakes. If the other players had provided the hard cuts or the opportunity for an outlet, I think he would have made the pass first. Why JV makes the same mistakes or why he doesn't stop again, fake and look for another pass can be the subject of another thread.  |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,007
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 10, 2011 13:56:58 GMT -5
I suppose that is true, pr, but there are players who are in that position who don't always turn it over after that situation.
It's a team issue. I do agree with those that say that JV needs to act quickly or he needs to kick it out. The quick move is his best move.
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Post by bigelephant on Jan 10, 2011 13:57:24 GMT -5
When the 3's aren't there and the cuts don't exist (whether it is the D, laziness or whatever) coach should insist the bigs go right to the hoop when they get it on the blocks. Looking for things that aren't happening invites the D to collapse and force a bad shot or tunovers. I just cannot understand why we don't at least try this approach when our other scoring plays aren't working!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2011 15:32:44 GMT -5
When the 3's aren't there and the cuts don't exist (whether it is the D, laziness or whatever) coach should insist the bigs go right to the hoop when they get it on the blocks. Looking for things that aren't happening invites the D to collapse and force a bad shot or tunovers. I just cannot understand why we don't at least try this approach when our other scoring plays aren't working! I think the problem is that, with the exception of an occasional baby hook shot or reverse pivot by Julian, our bigs don't have the moves to quickly and effectively go right to the basket. Probably not enough practice time left to really change that, but we can hope they develop at least a little more ability in that respect. |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 10, 2011 16:21:39 GMT -5
OldHoya, we have convinced ourselves that we are a perimeter shooting team and will rise and fall on our 3's. We need to change our mindset, make the hard cuts and THEN continue out to the 3-point line to either make the defender follow and clear out the middle for the next cutter or come open for the 3. The cuts can even work against a zone IF they are hard enough, since the cutter then draws one and often two defenders, opening the floor for passes and outside shots. I re-watched part of this last game and there were almost no hard cuts on the backdoors. We basically gave up on them. Lots of jogging, and one or two turnovers early where the passer threw the ball where the player was supposed to be, but he was just going through the motions. Absolutely spot on, and this has been going on for several games now. You can throw this under the effort umbrella, because there's nothing that the opposition regardless of their quality can do to force us to stop making hard cuts or coming towards the ball to receive a pass at the top of the key or on the wing. If we don't do those things, it's on us and us only. Those are correctable mistakes, but they have entirely everything to do with effort. |
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Post by bigelephant on Jan 10, 2011 16:48:06 GMT -5
When the 3's aren't there and the cuts don't exist (whether it is the D, laziness or whatever) coach should insist the bigs go right to the hoop when they get it on the blocks. Looking for things that aren't happening invites the D to collapse and force a bad shot or tunovers. I just cannot understand why we don't at least try this approach when our other scoring plays aren't working! I think the problem is that, with the exception of an occasional baby hook shot or reverse pivot by Julian, our bigs don't have the moves to quickly and effectively go right to the basket. Probably not enough practice time left to really change that, but we can hope they develop at least a little more ability in that respect. When we are shooting 25% from the 3's maybe we can get 1 out of 3 in the hole up close and get a foul with it or on the miss.I know the bigs are not "great" but why not try ? Huh? Maybe in practice Nate tries his up and under move and Julian or Henry stuffs it - so what! - the D won't catch what's going for a time or two - maybe the difference against WVa. Same with HS and JB. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2011 16:54:50 GMT -5
I'm not saying we shouldn't try it, we actually do try to get it to Julian inside the paint at times. I just don't think we can count on it with any consistency. And if we try it and it doesn't work, the defense will overplay even more. But yeah, we might as well take some shots down low when nothing else is working.
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Post by hoyaheaven on Jan 10, 2011 16:55:33 GMT -5
I think if we played Princeton...Princeton would win.
Would one of you geniuses care to rank the BE coaches from top to Bottom??
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2011 17:16:57 GMT -5
I presume that you rank yourself as #1 among the geniuses, so what say you start us off?
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 10, 2011 17:28:00 GMT -5
I think if we played Princeton...Princeton would win. Would one of you geniuses care to rank the BE coaches from top to Bottom?? If you think Princeton would win, you're clueless. And I'll tell you right now JTIII despite his recent struggles (all of about 10 days) is much closer to the top than the bottom. BTW, since I was bored (winter break does that to you), I looked it up. By my count, 117 of your 147 posts have been in one way or another criticizing the staff, the offense, or the players. As we all would expect, there are at best a handful of posts after wins, and almost always one (or more ) after a loss. Considering there are some posts that say next to nothing, the vast majority (I'd say close to 90%) of your posts add nothing except whining. You call yourself the board's resident pessimist: at this point, even that would be a understatement. This season has been great example too: exactly 1 post when we started 11-1 (and that was to commend the guy posting the highlight videos on the video forum), and 15 posts since the ND loss. No one is saying you can't voice your frustrations on this board. But only complaining about the same 2-3 things after losses and being completely silent when we're winning doesn't give you (as well as several other posters who do the same thing) much credibility. It also really makes a lot of us question whether or not you even want to see this team win games and succeed, because it certainly doesn't sound like you enjoy it when we win. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2011 17:38:29 GMT -5
I think if we played Princeton...Princeton would win. Would one of you geniuses care to rank the BE coaches from top to Bottom?? If you think Princeton would win, you're clueless. And I'll tell you right now JTIII despite his recent struggles (all of about 10 days) is much closer to the top than the bottom. BTW, since I was bored (winter break does that to you), I looked it up. By my count, 117 of your 147 posts have been in one way or another criticizing the staff, the offense, or the players. As we all would expect, there are at best a handful of posts after wins, and almost always one (or more ) after a loss. Considering there are some posts that say next to nothing, the vast majority (I'd say close to 90%) of your posts add nothing except whining. You call yourself the board's resident pessimist: at this point, even that would be a understatement. This season has been great example too: exactly 1 post when we started 11-1 (and that was to commend the guy posting the highlight videos on the video forum), and 15 posts since the ND loss. No one is saying you can't voice your frustrations on this board. But only complaining about the same 2-3 things after losses and being completely silent when we're winning doesn't give you (as well as several other posters who do the same thing) much credibility. It also really makes a lot of us question whether or not you even want to see this team win games and succeed, because it certainly doesn't sound like you enjoy it when we win. Bravo! Author! |
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jan 10, 2011 17:39:32 GMT -5
I think if we played Princeton...Princeton would win. Would one of you geniuses care to rank the BE coaches from top to Bottom?? If you think Princeton would win, you're clueless. And I'll tell you right now JTIII despite his recent struggles (all of about 10 days) is much closer to the top than the bottom. BTW, since I was bored (winter break does that to you), I looked it up. By my count, 117 of your 147 posts have been in one way or another criticizing the staff, the offense, or the players. As we all would expect, there are at best a handful of posts after wins, and almost always one (or more ) after a loss. Considering there are some posts that say next to nothing, the vast majority (I'd say close to 90%) of your posts add nothing except whining. You call yourself the board's resident pessimist: at this point, even that would be a understatement. This season has been great example too: exactly 1 post when we started 11-1 (and that was to commend the guy posting the highlight videos on the video forum), and 15 posts since the ND loss. No one is saying you can't voice your frustrations on this board. But only complaining about the same 2-3 things after losses and being completely silent when we're winning doesn't give you (as well as several other posters who do the same thing) much credibility. It also really makes a lot of us question whether or not you even want to see this team win games and succeed, because it certainly doesn't sound like you enjoy it when we win. Ha! I did that too Rockaway. I'd guess edited |
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 10, 2011 17:47:10 GMT -5
If you think Princeton would win, you're clueless. And I'll tell you right now JTIII despite his recent struggles (all of about 10 days) is much closer to the top than the bottom. BTW, since I was bored (winter break does that to you), I looked it up. By my count, 117 of your 147 posts have been in one way or another criticizing the staff, the offense, or the players. As we all would expect, there are at best a handful of posts after wins, and almost always one (or more ) after a loss. Considering there are some posts that say next to nothing, the vast majority (I'd say close to 90%) of your posts add nothing except whining. You call yourself the board's resident pessimist: at this point, even that would be a understatement. This season has been great example too: exactly 1 post when we started 11-1 (and that was to commend the guy posting the highlight videos on the video forum), and 15 posts since the ND loss. No one is saying you can't voice your frustrations on this board. But only complaining about the same 2-3 things after losses and being completely silent when we're winning doesn't give you (as well as several other posters who do the same thing) much credibility. It also really makes a lot of us question whether or not you even want to see this team win games and succeed, because it certainly doesn't sound like you enjoy it when we win. Ha! I did that too Rockaway. I'd guess edited. Me too. That's why I blame Sarah Palin for his posts. ;D |
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,681
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Post by tashoya on Jan 10, 2011 20:01:59 GMT -5
I think if we played Princeton...Princeton would win. Would one of you geniuses care to rank the BE coaches from top to Bottom?? That's cuz you're a hater. |
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,681
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Post by tashoya on Jan 10, 2011 20:03:31 GMT -5
Wouldn't bipolar mean he'd/she's have higher highs too? Paging Dr. Lic.....
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,501
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 11, 2011 14:18:43 GMT -5
Major plaudits to Rockaway.
I have to say, though, reviewing all of the posts of a single poster is an indication of having way, way too much time on one's hands. ;D
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