Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jan 10, 2011 12:27:18 GMT -5
The other difference with Duke: Coach K didn't ask Zoubek to run the offense at the top of the key. For some reason on Saturday (and other times), Julian Vaughn was asked to do that. I understand the system, but that is just not right with his skill set. I feel bad for Julian - he has done the best he could with what has been asked of him, but he probably should have stayed at Florida State. Zoubek wasn't a part of the offense at all. They basically told him to offensive rebound. I really don't think your comment highlights some massive difference between our team and Duke last year -- you seem to be implying that if Julian were used in some other manner he'd be as good as Zoubek was. Julian gets tons of low post touches -- his conversion rate is not strong and he doesn't demand a double team. If you are saying he's best served as a complementary player, I agree. But if you are saying Julian is performing wildly below his potential, I think you are crazy. As for staying at FSU, he's not exactly the kind of big they use there, either. It's the former. I like Julian a lot and think he shouldn't be asked to run the offense. With basically four guards in the lineup most of the time Julian is out there, I don't understand why he is the guy to handle the ball. Let him do what he does well and don't ask him to do much more than that. That's what Duke did with their big guys last year. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 10, 2011 13:08:58 GMT -5
Duke won a national title with a "Big 3 " of perimeter players last year. Those 3 averaged 53 of their 77 points per game; ours are averaging 42 of our 77 points a game. I don't know whether the diference is that our system requires more production from the bigs to succeed, or whether our guys are just pressing too hard because they perceive the need to produce. And of course we don't know what the end result of this season will be, we could still have a high ceiling if we can figure this out, cut down on the mistakes, and hit some more shots. I do know that Way is right in stating that Chris gets too much of the criticism when there has been plenty to go around lately. But that most likely will not change, since he is the leader of this team. He needs to take a breath, trust his teammates, not try to do quite so much by himself. We have to trust that he can do that, he is a smart kid and a tough kid(and he is still a kid, even as a senior). I have a feeling good things will start to happen soon,maybe even Wednesday, and we will shake our heads at some of the arguments in this thread down the road. I thought about the comparison between last year's Duke perimeter-oriented team and our team this year. The main difference is defense. That Duke team always played tough defense with a sense of urgency (esp. at Cameron), while this year's GU team seems erratic and laid-back. |
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 10, 2011 13:22:04 GMT -5
Is there any chance that Chris is not being told by his coach and/or teammates that his reckless drives need to stop or even worse is he being encouraged? You would think that after a few embarrassing possession he would self correct it. But ever since his out of control spin move against SJU when he got called for a charge it has only gotten worse. I'm just worried that Austin, Jason, and JT3 aren't trying to reason with him. Chris thinks he can take anyone off the dribble, but that's just not true. He is faster than most, but the idea of taking someone off the dribble implies that you can finish, and Chris is finishing challenged.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 10, 2011 13:47:34 GMT -5
Good question. His comments lately can be summed up with "I need to be more aggressive and stop looking to pass so much", "I can take anyone off the dribble", and "I don't know what's happening (why the shots are not falling)". I'm concerned that Chris has connected that the team has not gotten to the FT line as much with a need for more bull-dozing. The BE refs know Chris and his MO and are not buying it, just like with Scottie R. "I can take anyone off the dribble" is worthless if you cannot hit a jumper while moving or have to penetrate against 3 bigs after taking the guard off the dribble. Finally, "I don't know what's happening (to answer why his shot is not falling)" tells me he doesn't know that shooting a 30-footer with :30 seconds on the shot clock is bad, low percentage shot selection. He needs more instruction or he will continue to play the same way. He needs someone to keep reminding him that he won the McD AA 3-point contest by shooting with his feet set at the 3-point line and having fun, not 9 feet behind it or shooting it after a moving catch and release and under pressure/no confidence. Keep moving the ball, think better shot selection, and have fun, Chris, and good things will happen. We are all cheering for you and we know you can do it!
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 10, 2011 14:01:23 GMT -5
Okay, Chris has had a few bad games. We've all seen him play much better. Let's give him a chance to return to form and become part of a good team. Go Chris and the whole team. Beat Pitt or go down trying.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 10, 2011 14:06:48 GMT -5
Okay, Chris has had a few bad games. We've all seen him play much better. Let's give him a chance to return to form and become part of a good team. Go Chris and the whole team. Beat Pitt or go down trying. We're very dependent on him. Our slides have often been tied to when he's cold, and our streak during the BE tourney last year, for example, was definitely due quite a bit to him playing really well. The upperclassmen simply need to play better, and they can. Hopefully they will. |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 10, 2011 15:06:52 GMT -5
Chris was given the leadership of the team two years ago at Jessie Sapp's expense. Since then the team's performance has been feast or famine, heavily dependent on his performance and also on him playing with confidence in his teammates and his teammates playing with confidence in him. When things start going bad, they too often snowball because the key players start trying to do too much individually and make bad decisions on offense and get out of position on defense.
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 10, 2011 15:16:08 GMT -5
Well said PRhoya. I just think it obvious to everyone what he's doing wrong. I hope he realizes it. Its a tough team chemistry situation when you got a leader doing things wrong, it might be hard for an underclassman or fellow captain to speak up. I just don't see Austin, Jason, or JTIII to be very vocal or controversial in their personalities. I think the best cure for a shooting slump is to keep on shooting and not shy away, but the remedy for turning the ball over on an attempted dipsy doo lay up is to just stop. Here's to Chris finding a healthy medium.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2011 15:28:34 GMT -5
Chris is trying too hard. He sees the offense struggling as the shooting has slumped, so he is desperately tying to fix it himself by creating or forcing something to happen. The staff will know this and will remind him that even when things are not working, he has to try to stay within the offense. I am confident this will get fixed. At least I hope so!
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Jan 10, 2011 15:28:38 GMT -5
Is there any chance that Chris is not being told by his coach and/or teammates that his reckless drives need to stop or even worse is he being encouraged? You would think that after a few embarrassing possession he would self correct it. But ever since his out of control spin move against SJU when he got called for a charge it has only gotten worse. I'm just worried that Austin, Jason, and JT3 aren't trying to reason with him. Chris thinks he can take anyone off the dribble, but that's just not true. He is faster than most, but the idea of taking someone off the dribble implies that you can finish, and Chris is finishing challenged. I normally tend to give players/staff the benefit of the doubt on things like this, but I think this is a pretty legitimate question. You would think that after watching film and seeing himself do it so many times he would recognize it and stop, but that has not happened at all. He either doesn't see it, doesn't want to stop doing it, or can't stop himself from doing it during the games. Whether or not the staff tries to get him to stop doing it - I don't know. I kind of doubt it though. My guess is they don't want to take away his aggression. Also, this isn't some kind of recent phenomenon that began during the SJ game. He has been doing this since Kenner league before his freshman year. He has gone stretches where he doesn't do it as often (most of OOC this year), but he always reverts back to it. |
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 10, 2011 15:58:40 GMT -5
CW has always been a dribble drive guy since high school. Remember, he played on a pretty bad high school team where he had to be the man. We have asked him to be something he is not to better himself as a player and the team. However, in times of stress, most of us are guilty of reverting back to what makes us feel most safe & comfortable. For Chris, this is driving to the basket and trying to force (control) the issue. I really do not see it as much more than that.
I am sure the staff has spoken with him and what JT3 says to the media is not what he says to the team. Let's not be naive here. Someone took exception to JT3 calling CW's out of control drive and pass to Julian at the end of the WVU game a check-down pass. Does anyone expect JT3 to tell the public what it really was - an out of control, extremely low percentage pass that is almost always going to be a turnover? I am sure they have spoken with Chris, but life-long habits are hard to break over one summer at a Chris Paul camp.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 10, 2011 16:10:16 GMT -5
CW has always been a dribble drive guy since high school. Remember, he played on a pretty bad high school team where he had to be the man. We have asked him to be something he is not to better himself as a player and the team. However, in times of stress, most of us are guilty of reverting back to what makes us feel most safe & comfortable. For Chris, this is driving to the basket and trying to force (control) the issue. I really do not see it as much more than that. I am sure the staff has spoken with him and what JT3 says to the media is not what he says to the team. Let's not be naive here. Someone took exception to JT3 calling CW's out of control drive and pass to Julian at the end of the WVU game a check-down pass. Does anyone expect JT3 to tell the public what it really was - an out of control, extremely low percentage pass that is almost always going to be a turnover? I am sure they have spoken with Chris, but life-long habits are hard to break over one summer at a Chris Paul camp. I think you're right about CW reverting to his old tendencies as of late re: the dribble drive. But it wasn't any different earlier in the year. The only difference was that earlier in the year, he would use the dribble penetration to find teammates for open looks. Part of the problem is that our other perimeter guys haven't been hitting those open shots, so there's more pressure on CW to create for himself. The other part of the problem is that CW has been more careless with the ball than he has during the beginning third of the season. I take issue with your stance about JT3's comments re: CW. I absolutely expect JT3 to tell it like it was. But he should let the press know that he knows that CW is capable of doing a better job, that he's seen the good decision making in the past and has faith that it will return, and that he along with the rest of the team needs to step up their games in order for us to get back on track. It also wouldn't hurt to hear him talk about specific things that the team needs to work on once in awhile. "We just need to figure out how to get back to that place we were at" doesn't really cut it for me anymore. |
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Jan 10, 2011 16:14:54 GMT -5
Chris is trying too hard. He sees the offense struggling as the shooting has slumped, so he is desperately tying to fix it himself by creating or forcing something to happen. The staff will know this and will remind him that even when things are not working, he has to try to stay within the offense. I am confident this will get fixed. At least I hope so! I agree with this. It's unfortunate that we're panicking because things aren't going well, but it definitely is the case. Chris is being too aggressive. Austin, not aggressive enough. |
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 11, 2011 9:30:02 GMT -5
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jan 11, 2011 9:39:12 GMT -5
The difference between the poor play of Austin and Chris is that Austin has just disappeared and missed a few shots he normally makes, while Chris has actually been making things worse with his play compared to just not being a presence. His decisions have led to fastbreaks for the opponents and an inability of other players to pick up the slack (since he continues to take shots), though it's not clear if anyone else can pick up the slack anyway I suppose. If someone is going to play poorly, I'd rather that they do it quietly like Austin has been doing - less damaging for the team and presumably less damaging for the player's confidence.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 11, 2011 10:36:05 GMT -5
The difference between the poor play of Austin and Chris is that Austin has just disappeared and missed a few shots he normally makes, while Chris has actually been making things worse with his play compared to just not being a presence. His decisions have led to fastbreaks for the opponents and an inability of other players to pick up the slack (since he continues to take shots), though it's not clear if anyone else can pick up the slack anyway I suppose. If someone is going to play poorly, I'd rather that they do it quietly like Austin has been doing - less damaging for the team and presumably less damaging for the player's confidence. On the other hand it is easier for Austin to "disappear" than for the point guard who still has to run the show and have the ball in his hands. Not that that excuses or explains some of the questionable passes and forced shots by Chris, but he is more likely to try to force things when others aren't producing. |
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 11, 2011 14:29:30 GMT -5
Finally, "I don't know what's happening (to answer why his shot is not falling)" tells me he doesn't know that shooting a 30-footer with :30 seconds on the shot clock is bad, low percentage shot selection. He needs more instruction or he will continue to play the same way. He needs someone to keep reminding him that he won the McD AA 3-point contest by shooting with his feet set at the 3-point line and having fun, not 9 feet behind it or shooting it after a moving catch and release and under pressure/no confidence. Keep moving the ball, think better shot selection, and have fun, Chris, and good things will happen. We are all cheering for you and we know you can do it! This is the key to his problems so far...as well as many of our guards. The point of our offense is the we get the BEST possible shot and that is a set 3 or a lay-up. Too often are we seeing our players catch, take 2 dribbles, then pull up on the other side of the screen (no matter if the D made it through the screen or not). The problem is they are being taught to be in constant motion, so they catch and go to move the ball on, leaving only 2 options, passing or dribbling. If they start in the right spot then they can be a triple threat instead of defenders knowing they are either going to be driven on or passed by. |
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 11, 2011 15:32:40 GMT -5
CW is a mess right now and I would not pretend otherwise. Have no problem with RDF's suggestion (demand) that he be sat down during games when he is out of control or Markel is playing better. Yet, I hope at some point soon, we can all get past this emotional outburst and realize that CW (and the rest of the team) is in a slump and still our best option at point guard for this season. He still has the ability to turn it around and bring this team to the tournament in March. Without him playing we are simply in a rebuilding mode. Would love to see some of the negative energy channeled into some of the positives lately--like the growth of Nate, the play of Hollis, the ability of Jason to find other ways to contribute, even when his shooting is off or he is making turnovers, the improvement of Julian (other than the last game) and the improved offense in his limited time from Henry. It's not an enjoyable time to be a Hoya fan, but there is still considerable time left to hope that this turns around.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 11, 2011 15:53:51 GMT -5
CW is a mess right now and I would not pretend otherwise. Have no problem with RDF's suggestion (demand) that he be sat down during games when he is out of control or Markel is playing better. Yet, I hope at some point soon, we can all get past this emotional outburst and realize that CW (and the rest of the team) is in a slump and still our best option at point guard for this season. He still has the ability to turn it around and bring this team to the tournament in March. Without him playing we are simply in a rebuilding mode. Would love to see some of the negative energy channeled into some of the positives lately--like the growth of Nate, the play of Hollis, the ability of Jason to find other ways to contribute, even when his shooting is off or he is making turnovers, the improvement of Julian (other than the last game) and the improved offense in his limited time from Henry. It's not an enjoyable time to be a Hoya fan, but there is still considerable time left to hope that this turns around. Absolutely right, any talk of sitting Chris does not suggest necessarily that it will happen repeatedly, just on the occasion when he is trying to do too much leading to poor decisions, at which point using Markel may help stabilize things, give Chris a chance to settle down, and give Markel more experience for the future. And yes, let's all hope this is our slump for the season, and that we will pull it together soon, our shooters will find their touch, our big men will continue to contribute, our young guys will continue to develop, and JTIII will get the most out of these kids. Start rilling tomorrow, Hoyas, and keep it going. |
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jan 11, 2011 16:03:14 GMT -5
Totally agree that our best chance this year in the long run is with Chris. It just makes it more frustrating because I really think our bench/frontcourt has exceeded expectations. I think they have provided enough scoring, rebounding and overall composure for this team to be sitting undefeated or with one loss.
One last thing to remind people in case it hasn't shown up in the first 14 pages of this thread: although a senior, Chris has only played 2 Big East seasons + the 4 games this year. He missed an entire Big East season. So while I think it's a little late for Chris to really "develop" into a different smarter/better player, it's possible. He has almost a third of his Big East career in front of him.
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