SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 5, 2010 13:16:40 GMT -5
That's kind of the precedent I was talking about. Some players have lost their starting jobs to younger/previously bench players, but not in game one.
If some of the younger players break out, or if the team or a player struggles, sure. But game one? No.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 5, 2010 13:19:30 GMT -5
it was early but clear that potential frosh rebounders need time at the open practice they needed alot of help as youd expect learning the complicate offense AND what to do on d so i think moses and nate will help but will have to ease in to get more of the system.. now maybe fast learners but what we see now will be NOTHING like what we see at the end of the year go hoyas
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Post by capcenterhoya on Nov 5, 2010 13:31:15 GMT -5
Hollis played the 4 last year more than people realize. He's by far the best option there this year. If Jerelle or Nate have to play more than 20 minutes a game then the team is in trouble. I like Lubick, but from watching him play this summer it's clear he's not ready to play major minutes in the Big East. Penciling him in as a starter is wishful thinking .
The reality is that very few college teams play two true big men in the post. At least Hollis is scrappy and willing to fight for rebounds and steals. That's more than I can say for when Dajaun was listed as the 4. On offense, his ability to spread the floor is going to force teams to match up with us or go zone. Having four very good 3 pt shooters on the floor will be a nightmare for opponents.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Nov 5, 2010 13:35:35 GMT -5
Its really all about matchups and the kind of defense we decide to play. The dilema from my perspective is that clark is a liability in man vs. most 2s and when we play the zone or matchup we are very small at the top and side. If we have enough offensive firepower i would hope that we would see more of a bigger lineup to defend with. If Vaughn somehow morphs into a passing center which i doubt, not sure i want Bennimon or Hollis banging the offensive boards.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Nov 5, 2010 13:40:13 GMT -5
Hollis at the 4 last year is one of many reasons that it was the worst defensive team in IIIs tenure.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 5, 2010 13:53:55 GMT -5
Wait and see.
I could care less at this point. As long as we win I don't care who starts or even plays for that matter.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 5, 2010 13:55:23 GMT -5
capcenter, totally agree, we need time for the bench to develop, maybe Hollis can play his natural 3 next year, if he is still here. For those loyal HOYAS that haven't seen Hollis lately, he has a lot more muscle and a better mid-range game. Can't wait to see him against real competition next friday.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Nov 5, 2010 14:03:08 GMT -5
Sky - you thinking Hollis would declare for the draft after this season? I'd LOVE to see that much of an improvement from him, otherwise I don't know what you mean.
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russodj
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Post by russodj on Nov 5, 2010 14:11:57 GMT -5
There is no way Moses starts. If guys think Lubick is not Big East ready then they need to lower their expectations for Moses. He is a HUGE project offensively and I don't see III starting someone who can't run the offense.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Nov 5, 2010 14:29:46 GMT -5
III has thrown freshmen who may not have been "ready" into the mix when it was necessary. My question to those to note how unprepared Lubick and Moses are is what other options do you see happening? We can't play only one true big man. Are you expecting major minutes from Sims and Benimon?
Edit: I guess I'm saying if all of our forwards are either a) not BE talent, or b) raw and not ready, we're going to have to play some of them. Everybody can't be too raw to play - someone is getting minutes.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Nov 5, 2010 14:31:06 GMT -5
I'm really confident in Hollis. I think he's going to have a very good year and going to be a breakout star next year. That being said, I don't want to see him guarding 4's unless we're playing like Marquette or in some matchup where a guy can't take advantage of it. Jerrelle I'm not super psyched about either at the 4, but defensively I'm more comfortable with him there than Hollis.
I guess what it comes down to is after last year, I'd be happier if we focused on fixing defensive errors, than to focus on putting our most offensively potent lineup out there.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 5, 2010 14:41:34 GMT -5
My thoughts on how the rotation comes down. I don't really like the results: Hoya ProspectusEven if we basically put Vee and Markel without minutes, the best we can do is still at least half a game of 3 guard. And a whole lot of SF at PF.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Nov 5, 2010 14:58:03 GMT -5
Whichever group plays, just play some tough defense and I'll be happy.
My expectations are much lower then many--but I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised. Basing it off the fact I'm concerned they don't have a frontcourt player you can run halfcourt offense through--which is important for Princeton, and haven't liked how the guards run the halfcourt offense when forced to do so--especially against zone defenses--which we all know Georgetown will repeatedly see.
Counter to that--run more, play uptempo and try to beat teams before they can set up halfcourt defense--and simplify the roles of young bigs--just have them board/play defense and finish. Vaughn's a better player to me when he's got a big with him--and think some expectations are getting too big for him based on Summer. Think he'll be solid if he can repeat/slightly increase what he did a year ago without Monroe--who to me it seems so many publications/talking heads diminish the value based on his demeanor or lack of appeared toughness. 16 and 10 as a 19 year old Soph isn't easy to replace--especially when the guy was who offense ran through in halfcourt and made it so effective/game easier for guards.
Ready to see what adjustments are made and hoping for a strong season and can't wait to watch!
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 5, 2010 15:11:49 GMT -5
I am not sure this question is all that important - what is more important is what our lineup is after noncon play - where do the chips fall/align?
JT3 has put weirdo lineups on the floor before in the first game. Tyler Crawford started for a game or two (and did fairly well) before his mono diagnosis. (I think it was mono but it may have just been a bad/extended flu).
If we run small ball, you have to go uptempo and throw a press out there IMO. We're going to need possessions. I don't think it will work, so I like the JJL proposal above, realizing that Lubick could be switched up with Moses and Sims depending on development.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Nov 5, 2010 15:38:10 GMT -5
Hollis at the 4 last year is one of many reasons that it was the worst defensive team in IIIs tenure. I agree that it was a poor defensive team, but I don't recall being eaten up by opponents' power forwards. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just don't remember that. What I do remember is a bunch of guards blowing by our guards and scoring, drawing fouls or dishing to open guys who had to be left by one of our big men to make up for the fact that the guard was in the paint (again, as a result of poor perimeter defense).
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Nov 5, 2010 15:38:32 GMT -5
My prediction is Benimon will start at the 4 in the opener and Lubick will be there by the end of the season. My brain will explode if Hollis starts at the 4 although I admit that is a possibility. So do you see Hollis coming off the bench, or do you see Clark not starting? I think Clark has earned his starting role and should not lose it. I also think we should put the five best players on the floor until results prove that does not work. To me, that means Hollis starts at the four. The lineup should be Wright, Freeman, Clark, Thompson, and Vaughn. I see Hollis coming off the bench. People have talked about this ad nauseum, but putting your best 5 players on the floor doesn't mean you are putting your best lineup on the floor. I agree with Chep3's last post. I really like Hollis but I think we should be focusing on defense. Here's my big problem with the small ball thing. You typically play small ball because it helps on the offensive end. Nobody should argue that we are going to be a better defensive team with Hollis at the 4 rather than one of the bigs. But when have we had a poor offensive team at the end of the season under III's tenure? I would argue never. 2009 wasn't great, but by the end of the year it was defense that was the problem, not offense. Every other year we have had a pretty exceptional offense by the time March came around. We're going to be very good on offense by the end of this season too no matter what lineup we play in my opinion. Defense is an entirely different question. With Hollis at the 4 our defense has a VERY low ceiling.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 5, 2010 15:38:40 GMT -5
III has had trouble keeping 3/4 on the team from coming out due mainly to the difference in personalities between him and them. He lost Jeff and Summers earlier than he would have liked.HE seams to pick on Hollis a lot in public and that might work against him.
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Nov 5, 2010 15:41:03 GMT -5
I look at the roster and see a lot of talent. Austin is capable of having the offense flow through him. I hope they run more and a press would be smart considering the depth at the guard/wing positions. I like this team.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Nov 5, 2010 15:41:18 GMT -5
Hollis at the 4 last year is one of many reasons that it was the worst defensive team in IIIs tenure. I agree that it was a poor defensive team, but I don't recall being eaten up by opponents' power forwards. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just don't remember that. What I do remember is a bunch of guards blowing by our guards and scoring, drawing fouls or dishing to open guys who had to be left by one of our big men to make up for the fact that the guard was in the paint (again, as a result of poor perimeter defense). Perimeter defense was definitely not good, but I think a very large part of this was that we didn't have enough big guys to step up and help when guards got into the lane, AND that the big guys we did have weren't good at it (Monroe). This has really been missed since Roy Hibbert graduated. I think going small will only make the penetration worse this year.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Nov 5, 2010 15:42:38 GMT -5
what?
Jeff was ready to go, he knew it, Jeff knew it.
I don't think by the end of DaJuan's career he was begging for a return.
And I don't think Hollis is anything but a 4 year player. A potentially very, very good player, but not a talent that we see leave early.
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