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Post by hoyaparents on Sept 10, 2010 9:16:00 GMT -5
The Big East has extended on offer for Villanova to join the Big East football conference.
They would have a long way to go before they could compete on that level. What is the size of the student body at Villanova as compared to GU?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 10, 2010 9:30:21 GMT -5
Villanova is the same size as Georgetown.
Good for Villanova, but this is a backhanded slap to Georgetown, and suggests the Big East may not have (or does not want) Georgetown in its long term plans.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Sept 10, 2010 9:38:15 GMT -5
Can we switch the thread topic? "Invited" is not the same as "will join".
DFW, I disagree on the "backhanded slap". Villanova won a national championship last year and plays in one of the most competitive conferences in the country with a mildly large stadium (and, failing that, they've got Franklin Field). Georgetown went 0-10 last year, the fan base is excited over a win over Davidson, and there's not a huge stadium in the city that D.C. doesn't want to tear down.
Villanova is in the conversation about joining I-A. Georgetown, currently, isn't. That's not the fault of the Big East.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 10, 2010 9:43:21 GMT -5
agree with theexorcist.
There's still a good chance nova doesn't accept the invitation.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 10, 2010 9:50:27 GMT -5
Three questions:
1. Does the Big East need to keep Georgetown after it gets to 12 football schools?
2. Does Georgetown stay in the PL after it gives the green light to 60 scholsrships?
3. Is there any plan as to what Georgetown will do in either case?
If the answers are "no, no, and not yet", that's trouble.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Sept 10, 2010 10:08:35 GMT -5
Good questions, DFW.
The Big East inviting 'Nova really doesn't scare me that much. After West Virginia, the rest of the league isn't particularly imposing - Rutgers has been awful for the majority of its history, Pitt defines mediocrity, Syracuse has fallen a huge amount, South Florida threatens to destroy everyone and then tanks, UConn, in what was supposed to be a sleeper year, lost big to a middle-of-the-pack Big Ten team. Cincy and Louisville lose coaches to big programs and seem to have a set ceiling. Only WVU has history and continued relevance (God, how it pains me to write those words).
That to me means that the Big East is always constrained. If you're the Big Ten, you invite Nebraska. If you're the PAC-10, you invite Colorado and Utah. If you're the Big East, you invite Villanova. There's a mild difference in school quality there. And that means that Big East membership is necessarily more fluid.
If the Big East adds additional members, they may look to cut out teams, but a Seton Hall or Providence seems at much greater risk than the Hoyas, who still command a big presence in the Washington market and a national following.
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Post by hoyawatcher on Sept 10, 2010 11:31:40 GMT -5
I understand the concern about the potential downside for Georgetown as a basketball not football member of the BE. But if Villanova takes the bait and decides to join the BE football program it should give Georgetown a pretty good roadmap on how to do it -- and just as importantly I would expect it would put a lot of pressure on Georgetown to actually do it. The elevator speech will be if Villanova can do it why can't Georgetown?
The issue is now in play which is good. GU has a new AD who should be willing to look at this with "fresh eyes". Little early for him probably but in the final analysis no time like the present.
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Post by lfn on Sept 10, 2010 12:08:34 GMT -5
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Sept 10, 2010 12:28:04 GMT -5
I understand the concern about the potential downside for Georgetown as a basketball not football member of the BE. But if Villanova takes the bait and decides to join the BE football program it should give Georgetown a pretty good roadmap on how to do it -- and just as importantly I would expect it would put a lot of pressure on Georgetown to actually do it. The elevator speech will be if Villanova can do it why can't Georgetown? The issue is now in play which is good. GU has a new AD who should be willing to look at this with "fresh eyes". Little early for him probably but in the final analysis no time like the present. The elevator response is "Villanova's competed at a higher level for much longer and has a more recent tradition of major college success. Georgetown also supports more sports than Villanova. Lots of I-A programs lose money and it's not clear that Georgetown joining the Big East would be required to maintain a nationally competitive basketball program or the existence of the athletic department in general, while it seems like a good bet that a school right next to two other competitors in Maryland and Navy that can't sell out their stadiums on a constant basis is going to have massive attendance problems". If, you know, the elevator ride was long. |
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Post by hoyawatcher on Sept 10, 2010 12:48:16 GMT -5
I understand the concern about the potential downside for Georgetown as a basketball not football member of the BE. But if Villanova takes the bait and decides to join the BE football program it should give Georgetown a pretty good roadmap on how to do it -- and just as importantly I would expect it would put a lot of pressure on Georgetown to actually do it. The elevator speech will be if Villanova can do it why can't Georgetown? The issue is now in play which is good. GU has a new AD who should be willing to look at this with "fresh eyes". Little early for him probably but in the final analysis no time like the present. The elevator response is "Villanova's competed at a higher level for much longer and has a more recent tradition of major college success. Georgetown also supports more sports than Villanova. Lots of I-A programs lose money and it's not clear that Georgetown joining the Big East would be required to maintain a nationally competitive basketball program or the existence of the athletic department in general, while it seems like a good bet that a school right next to two other competitors in Maryland and Navy that can't sell out their stadiums on a constant basis is going to have massive attendance problems". If, you know, the elevator ride was long. I've always liked going up to the top of to the Empire State Building. Might be required for this discussion  FWIW I am not saying GU should definitely do the BE FB thing. And I have stated GU is a decade (at least) behind Villanova here. But I do think whatever Villanova does will be highly instructive for GU -- they will have to address almost all of the core issues GU has and you expressed in your post. But if they do go for it there will be both a roadmap and pressure on GU as a very similar school. And hopefully a rational for elevator trips in the 20 floor range. |
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Sept 10, 2010 13:13:08 GMT -5
This is one of the few times I would wholeheartedly support a half-measure: if Nova does join the Big East for football AND Georgetown finally moves to offer athletic scholarships for football, Georgetown should consider applying to fill the new vacancy for a football-only membership in the CAA....
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Sept 10, 2010 17:47:08 GMT -5
I've always thought that the danger of the football schools breaking away together to do their own thing was always overblown and I don't think Nova' elevation would change that.
The true danger to the conference and Georgetown's future I think remains the wholesale dissolution/ loss of BCS status of the Big East as caused by defections.
But of course if our administration hasn't already been seriously talking about the future of Hoya athletics any move by Villanova needs to be carefully watched and emulated if needed
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 10, 2010 19:49:53 GMT -5
Isn't the BE not in danger of losing it's BCS status according to an article I read none of the BCS leagues can lose BCS status unless they no longer have enough teams. But poor performance can't cause a loss of status a new league coud become BCS but they would just add not replace. And with Utah and BYU leaving the MWC there's no threat of that either.
I agree the split is overblown as not much is really gained by the split.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 11, 2010 15:16:55 GMT -5
This is one of the few times I would wholeheartedly support a half-measure: if Nova does join the Big East for football AND Georgetown finally moves to offer athletic scholarships for football, Georgetown should consider applying to fill the new vacancy for a football-only membership in the CAA.... Well, considering CAA member James Madison just took down Virginia Tech... you think Georgetown could hang with the #13 ranked team in the country? Or even be in the same county? CAA:Patriot League::SEC:Sun Belt |
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Post by hoyafrigginsaxa on Sept 11, 2010 20:14:10 GMT -5
I watch a lot of football. I've been watching it all day. I haven't heard one single word about the big east. I haven't heard a single thing about any team in the big east for that matter. Nobody cares about it and neither should we. Nova will be in the big east? Who the hell cares. It will always be a joke of a conference when it comes to football and will never compete with the big dogs. The Big East is a basketball conference. Always has been and always will be.
Is there anyone who really thinks that Big East football would ever come close to the viewership/$/recognition of big east basketball? Why should we invest all sorts of money into something that people do not care about and will not pay to see? I didn't graduate from the B school but that just seems retarded.
The Big East is a basketball conference and GTOWN is a top dog in the best basketball conference in the country. We compete and have a chance to win every year in by far the best conference. We're a basketball school. And a damn good one. There is no chance that the Big East tells us and our national following in basketball to get lost in order to be a "football conference" with the likes of villanova. Be happy. I am. Austin Freeman BE POY
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