SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 8, 2011 21:14:03 GMT -5
whatmaroon,
I didn't think the second Locke Lamora book was bad, but it's not in the same class. The genre sells series, so it was bound to happen, but like a lot of these books, there's no reason for a sequel. The story is done, it was real good, I don't need to read it again.
I have the same reaction to Bakker. Eh.
One thing Sanderson has going for him is productivity. The guy is fast. I will also say that I decided to actually finish WOT because of him. I read the last two Jordan-only books by simply churning (just awful) since I had quit before he wrote them, but the while the two Sanderson ones have not been spectacular, they actually are about the characters I like, plot happens and there's very little annoying tugging of braids, whining about the opposite sex. Amazingly, the kids who grew up together actually trust each other again as opposed to whatever the hell Jordan was trying to sell.
I'm starting Daniel Abraham's new one and it is a really interesting world. I hope it's better than his Long Price quartet, which was freaking slow.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 10, 2011 18:44:00 GMT -5
Episode 4 of GOT was good. I think the show is finding it's pacing. They are also now allowing themselves to focus more on some characters instead of giving everyone ten minutes.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on May 11, 2011 15:12:50 GMT -5
Episode 4 of GOT was good. I think the show is finding it's pacing. They are also now allowing themselves to focus more on some characters instead of giving everyone ten minutes. Agreed. One thing I hope happens is that they speed up Jon's timeline and bring some of his story from book 2 (I believe, or maybe the end of book 1...it's been too long) up to the first season. He has been a focal character so far and is interesting (my wife is a fan), but there is only so much they can show him at Castle Black playing with his mates. hm |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 16, 2011 13:07:07 GMT -5
So, I've been looking around the tubes, trying to find some good analysis of this show, like what we got from Doc Jensen at Entertainment Weekly in analyzing 'Lost.' I landed on this and I thought it was pretty good: www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/The_Wolf_and_the_LionThey offer a non-spoiler preview, a full recap (which is helpful if you get confused from time to time as to who is who), and an analysis that examines acting performances, loyalty of the show to the text of the books and other aspects of the episodes. Unlike 'Lost' reviews, there really isn't going to be a lot of pondering over "what things mean," since, for the most part we already know what most things mean (well, if you've read the books). But I thought it was a pretty good analysis & will be checking back here after subsequent episodes. If anyone has any other sources, please share. I agree with the analysis above for the most part on the "added" scenes (stuff taht wasn't in the books) last night: Littlefinger and Varys was a very good scene and Robert-Cersei didn't really work at all. I think they're being a bit coy about the added scene with Renly and Loras though. Their relationship was a minor plot point in the books, and didn't really govern their characters actions all that much, as least not as far as the reader could tell. I think this scene brings that relationship much more into prominence and unfairly casts Renly as a far weaker person than he actually is. I apologize if the following sounds homophobic, but I do think this scene may have been added for a bit of shock value more than anything else. Very much like the scene showing "Robin" actually nursing from his mom; I thought that was a bit much and not all that necessary. Here's what I did like about both of those scenes though: it does show that the producers and directors of this show are not going to shy away from anything in the novels. And let's face it: there's a LOT in the novels that people might want to shy away from on a TV series. I do credit them for one change, which is making the female characters all a bit older than they were in the books. It always creeped my out a little bit that George R.R. Martin was treating in such an adult manner such young girls. I know the point of it, but it was still creepy. They're all still very young in the show, of course, but I think the slight uptick in ages was a good idea (and almost certainly a necessary one). |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 16, 2011 16:54:52 GMT -5
I'm absolutely certain the Renly-Loras scene was added for purposes of shock value/titillation ... just like the Theon and Roz scene and every other expositional scene that used sex to spice it up. The sex scenes in the books were generally plot points or character development, and occurred off stage when otherwise.
HBO is HBO. What bothers me is the general reaction that ONLY the Renly-Loras scene is "unnecessary" or "for shock value." In the first episode alone, there's a ton of gratuitous nudity and there were many less people arguing that point. For a lot of people it was simply yucky, to which I respond, grow up. I personally don't need a lot of the nudity on the show (or as graphic on the violence) but if you're going to do one, don't not show another because people get squeamish.
As for the breastfeeding scene -- I think it's a great shock point. It conveys a lot about how crazy Lysa is in about as short a time period as you can do. Much more relevant than more Greyjoy exposition somehow occurring with an amazingly well informed prostitute.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 16, 2011 17:51:27 GMT -5
I see your point, SF, and I will plead guilty that I am much more likely to notice a homosexual scene than some boobs here or there. Sorry, mea culpa, but it's the truth.
My real problem with it was not the implied sex or gay relationship. It was how that scene completely mischaracterized Renly. Afraid of his own blood? Come on. This is not Longshanks kid we are talking about here.
As for the Robin-Lysa breastfeeding, wow, I just completely missed that. I was saying it was unnecessary to depict Robert, now Robin, as a sickly, emotionally unstable mama's boy. I really didn't realize how effective it was in showing that Lysa was bat crazy. I guess that's one of the drawbacks of coming into the scene already knowing that she's bat crazy.
I will disagree that some of the gratuitous nudity earlier in the show was completely unnecessary. I think some of it really did advance our knowledge of the characters (thinking of Tyrion and Dany-Khal Drogo specifically). But you're right, definitely not all of it.
Anyway, you make a very good point.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 16, 2011 18:34:05 GMT -5
I see your point, SF, and I will plead guilty that I am much more likely to notice a homosexual scene than some boobs here or there. Sorry, mea culpa, but it's the truth. My real problem with it was not the implied sex or gay relationship. It was how that scene completely mischaracterized Renly. Afraid of his own blood? Come on. This is not Longshanks kid we are talking about here. As for the Robin-Lysa breastfeeding, wow, I just completely missed that. I was saying it was unnecessary to depict Robert, now Robin, as a sickly, emotionally unstable mama's boy. I really didn't realize how effective it was in showing that Lysa was bat Edited crazy. I guess that's one of the drawbacks of coming into the scene already knowing that she's bat Edited crazy. I will disagree that some of the gratuitous nudity earlier in the show was completely unnecessary. I think some of it really did advance our knowledge of the characters (thinking of Tyrion and Dany-Khal Drogo specifically). But you're right, definitely not all of it. Anyway, you make a very good point. On the Renly piece, that's a valid criticism. I think it is okay that they make him less self-assured in private than in public, but he's still supposed to be a charismatic guy and confident. A fighter? He LOOKS like Robert when he was younger, but I'm not sure he's supposed to be a fighter. Either way, though, I see your point. That said, I've basically talked myself into separating the source material. Catelyn and Cersei are differing to date, as is the Hound to a certain extent (though his limited screen time may be limiting the ability to show some of his scenes without altering him more). I've come to terms with it - or whatever they are going to do. I still will be annoyed if they deviate from major plot points for no reason or if someone does a 180, but if they choose to make Renly less self-assured, Cersei more sympathetic or Catelyn just different, so be it. Well, just don't f* with Arya. Or I will hunt them down. ------------- As for sex scenes, I'd say most of Martin's written sex scenes were not gratuitous (Dany, Tyrion with Shae, Cersei and Jaime) but the ones kept off-stage (Tyrion before Shae, Theon, Littlefinger's brothel, Doreah, etc) have been mostly to show some T&A. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 16, 2011 18:50:55 GMT -5
Re: Cersei & Catelyn I think those two may be my biggest disappointments in the show. Let me qualify this by saying, I am not trying to be Mr. Hypercritical Fanboy here. I love this show. I love almost every part of it, even when they stray from the books. Hell, Peter Jackson had to stray from the books on multiple occasions, and he still created a masterpiece (though would it have killed you to put Tom Bombadil and The Scouring of The Shire in the director's cut, Pete???  ) But those two characters, Cat and Cersei, just aren't working for me yet....and I stress yet. I think Cat's strength is absolutely coming across and that is very good. But she lacks any level of warmth, and she is supposed to be a very warm character, at least up to a point in the story. Cersei is almost the opposite. They are going out of their way to show her softer side, and Cersei really has no soft side. Moments of self-doubt? Sure. She loves her children? Most definitely (in fact, she is not far from Lysa on that score). But she is probably the least sympathetic character through the first four books and that is not how she is being portrayed. I think the actress is doing a good job, this is more a problem with the writing. These are minor criticisms. And there is plenty of time for all of the characters, not just these two, to be fleshed out more completely, since they are already at work writing Season 2. On the other hand, I can't say enough things about how well they are doing with Jon Snow on the Wall, with the Dany storyline, and who can't completely love Maisie Williams performance as Arya thus far. Really, I have no serious complaints. In a story this big, with this many main characters, there are bound to be some disappointments here and there. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 17, 2011 0:34:47 GMT -5
I can completely understand that. I'm actually interested to see how much of this is pure bull on Cersei's part. Is she really this balanced and even in the story? Or is it an act? I kind of like it because I could actually be surprised by something.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 17, 2011 11:19:08 GMT -5
Boz, Also, the Blog www.winter-is-coming.net has a post every Monday with links to a bunch of recaps/reviews. James Hibberd of EW is entertaining, and Alan Sepinwall does a really interesting one because he hasn't read the books so it's nice to see a different perspective. James P of Time isn't bad, and Mo Ryan is taking the POV of the hard core book fan that's disappointed with everything. A review for everyone! |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 17, 2011 11:40:51 GMT -5
I can completely understand that. I'm actually interested to see how much of this is pure bull Edited on Cersei's part. Is she really this balanced and even in the story? Or is it an act? I kind of like it because I could actually be surprised by something. Well, seeing as how we are coming up on her pulling one of her most diabolical acts, I hope you are right. Quick note: I am assuming that pretty much everyone reading this thread has read some or all of the books. If that's not the case, and if you don't like me posting things like I just did above, please let me know and I will stop. Also, thanks for the reviews, SF. I was looking all over EW for that but couldn't find it. The others are good too, but I think I like that one the best. |
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on May 17, 2011 13:54:49 GMT -5
Just stay away from the New York magazine reviews...they are horrible and frustrating. The reviews are written by a "superfan" and a "newbie"; the superfan is somewhat balanced, but the newbie feels it is her job to dislike the show but is too dumb to come up with valid criticisms.
As for the new scenes, they basically worked for me. The Cersai/Robert scene, if nothing else, gave Robert some depth and made him more human (instead of just being drunk and blustery). That may help people get slightly more invested in him. The scene did continue the softening of Cersai, which I originally just chalked up to not remembering what she was like in the beginning of GoT. Now I see it as a conscious choice...to what end, we'll see. I agree, the Loras/Renly scene was there for titillation, but now I think they are going to have to work hard to convince people Loras is a very good young fighter (or maybe they don't care). And I realize that being gay and a good fighter are not mutually exclusive, but I think it will be hard to get the image/sounds of him shaving Renly and the slurping out of viewers heads when/if we are to take his fighting prowess seriously.
Overall, the new scenes add some extra bits for fans and round out the story generally. I think back to the last geek book to screen adaptation I was waiting for and how poorly that transition was. Even though they changed the end of the Watchmen, the strict adherence to parts of the book left the movie very flat, in my opinion. GoT is working much, much better...
hm
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 23, 2011 15:32:49 GMT -5
Anyone else sneak ahead and watch next week's episode on HBOGo?
As a broadband channel, HBOGo sucks, by the way. But I couldn't resist.
Just in case you haven't, I won't post anything about that episode, except to say that it was very good. As was last night's episode.
And yes, Cersei is now becoming a little more Cersei-like.
But how come Osha didn't have purple hair? ;D
As for the "crowning" scene, well they cheated a bit, but I understand why they did that for pacing. And I think they made it a little bit sanitized, for which I am grateful. If they actually tried to show the real effects of what would have happened to Viserys the way the book described it, I think I might have hurled.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 24, 2011 0:33:26 GMT -5
So I got around to episode 6 and 7 -- on Comcast, which apparently knows how to gauge bandwidth -- and I have to say, those were fantastic episodes. Some of the best stuff on tv.
Cersei showing her manipulative, vindictive side. The crowning (Harry Lloyd was AWESOME). Littlefinger. I can't wait for Arya's last dancing lesson, Sansa's reality check and what is going to be a rapid-freaking-fire of Dany storyline.
Only disappointment was the impact of the Night's Watch Oath didn't have the impact with only two speaking it. It's fantasy geek, but there's a shiver with "Night gathers, and my watch begins. It shall not end until my death."
I hope the ratings keep climbing so we all get the 8-10 seasons it is going to take to tell the whole story.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 24, 2011 9:15:14 GMT -5
I hope the ratings keep climbing so we all get the 8-10 seasons it is going to take to tell the whole story. Yup. I'm already getting that bummed out feeling that there's only three episodes left before the end of this season. |
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on May 24, 2011 9:45:40 GMT -5
Is the advanced airing on HBOGo going to continue so I can watch episodes on a weekly basis or by giving in and watching, do I have to wait two weeks before catching episode 8?
Thought episode 6 was great...too often shows/movies do a slow build but never end up delivering. Episode 5 and definitely 6 delivered the goods. I think the only disappointing thing over the next month will be that this season is only 10 episodes...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 24, 2011 10:45:56 GMT -5
Two weeks before episode 8, by most/all accounts.
I'd have normally waited, but since next week is Memorial Day, it seemed a good time to watch early.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on May 24, 2011 14:46:07 GMT -5
Thanks SF. I'll hold out until Sunday then...
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Bando
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Post by Bando on May 24, 2011 15:13:44 GMT -5
I'm definitely loving this show, as someone who's familiar with the plot but hasn't actually read the books (I fall to the Wikipedia temptation a lot). I think if Peter Dinklage doesn't get an Emmy out of this, then that trophy's worth nothing.
I'm actually fine with a lot of the off-book stuff. They officially have this leeway because a lot of characters aren't POV characters in the book (such as Robert, Cersei, or Littlefinger) and thus you can just go with the excuse that there wasn't a POV character around to hear all this.
I thought in particular that the Robert/Cersei seen was well done and added a lot to the characterization of those two. I don't know why anyone would prefer that Cersei be two-dimensional, that's boring.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on May 24, 2011 15:14:33 GMT -5
Also, the Onion AV Club has two sets of reviews for each episode, one for those who have read the books and one for those who haven't. They're a great read.
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