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Post by hoyawatcher on Jun 22, 2010 12:55:54 GMT -5
I didn't see this one coming but looks like the federal judge has blocked Obama from implementing a moratorium on all drilling in the gulf. Don't know the basis for the decision yet but this one will be fun to watch. Can't wait to hear the howling out of the White House regardless of what you think of the moratorium or the judge's decision. www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9GGFCCO3&show_article=1 |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 22, 2010 12:59:28 GMT -5
Wow. I wasn't expecting that decision either.
I wonder what happens while the administration appeals, as they certainly will do.
Moratorium in place during appeal or not in place during appeal?
"Not" would seem to make sense, but then again, I'm no law talkin' guy.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jun 22, 2010 12:59:25 GMT -5
Anyone see decision papers for this?
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Jun 22, 2010 13:09:15 GMT -5
What was the constitutional basis for the President to order the drilling moratorium in the first place? Edited to add: Anyone see decision papers for this? Here's the ruling, a pretty firm rebuke to the Feds for an "arbitrary and capricious" decision: www.laed.uscourts.gov/GENERAL/Notices/10-1663_doc67.pdf |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 22, 2010 13:24:26 GMT -5
Appeal Baby Appeal!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 22, 2010 13:40:35 GMT -5
I'm actually in favor of the general idea of the ruling -- BP shouldn't be allowed to continue operations as they've proven they can't handle it, but other companies shouldn't be punished. Work quickly to make sure safety standards are up to par, but you can't dawdle on something like this.
On the other hand, though, can someone explain to me how this general interaction occurs? I mean, our governments -- at whatever level -- have to have some ability to act quickly without everything being legislated in detail. Can we sue for everything? If I don't like the new stop sign in my neighborhood? If I don't like my child's textbook?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 22, 2010 14:02:13 GMT -5
On the other hand, though, can someone explain to me how this general interaction occurs? I mean, our governments -- at whatever level -- have to have some ability to act quickly without everything being legislated in detail. Can we sue for everything? If I don't like the new stop sign in my neighborhood? If I don't like my child's textbook? I assume you have to have a permit to drill? There should be some emergency administrative procedure to revoke/suspend the permit/license. |
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 22, 2010 14:14:01 GMT -5
I'm from New Orleans, so I understand the importance of the industry to our area of the country. Yet, I still feel that if we are to make a mistake, I prefer we err on the side of caution. I'm not convinced any of the companies have adequate spill response plans, or that the technology actually exists to successfully handle these wells when something goes wrong. BP clearly doesn't know what to do. They are making up their plan as they go along. If any company did know what to do, they would have stepped to the line by now. I do believe the drilling technology is fine. BP was just galactically stupid in handling the issues which arose in drilling Macondo. But, as we have seen, things can and do go horribly wrong. QUOTETwo congressmen reviewing oil spill response plans of the nation's five largest oil companies say they are nearly identical -- and are all unprepared for such a spill. Rep. Ed Markey, chairman of a House Energy panel, said the plans "cite identical response capabilities and tout identical ineffective equipment." The committee looked at plans of BP along with those of ExxonMobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell Oil.bit.ly/9dKUh5 |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 22, 2010 14:15:39 GMT -5
I'm actually in favor of the general idea of the ruling -- BP shouldn't be allowed to continue operations as they've proven they can't handle it, but other companies shouldn't be punished. Work quickly to make sure safety standards are up to par, but you can't dawdle on something like this. In my view, the spill isn't just BP's fault. Although BP behaved terribly, the government agency (MMS) that allowed BP to proceed sans compliance with safety regulations should share blame equally. So, oil companies aren't being punished only because BP couldn't "handle it," but because the federal government couldn't handle it, either. Question: If the moratorium only affects drilling, and not production, does the moratorium actually make U.S. coastlines any safer? Are we to believe the MMS dropped the ball on supervising only one rig? I'm not convinced any of the companies have adequate spill response plans, or that the technology actually exists to successfully handle these wells when something goes wrong. I do believe the drilling technology is fine. BP was just galactically stupid in handling the issues which arose in drilling Macondo. I agree with this. The moratorium is sort of weird, because it suggests we don't fully understand the science behind drilling, when in fact there's a lot of science behind the process. The problem is that the regulations that developed (based on this science) weren't enforced, and oil companies naturally didn't follow them voluntarily. So we're stuck with unsafe rigs and a bunch of half-assed spill response plans that won't work. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jun 22, 2010 14:49:43 GMT -5
One question - to what extent is the science behind drilling in areas with oil slicks known, i.e. what is the risk for the oil slicks igniting due to sparks and other routine drilling processes? Should companies proceed, they should do so at their own risk IMO.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jun 22, 2010 15:03:31 GMT -5
I don't fully agree with the moratorium either but think it made sense under the circumstances, particularly to assist in the triage. With that underway, I think it makes sense to lift the moratorium with the caveats noted above. It is possible that these oil companies have a remedy - don't know but would be interested to hear if they have brought claims to Feinberg outside of something like counterclaims arising from the tort at issue here. |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 22, 2010 18:01:11 GMT -5
I completely agree with the moratorium on deep water drilling. Anything else would be recklessly irresponsible.
The point made above that No One knows what to do if something goes wrong is critical.
Really, there are two issues.
1. Are the drilling procedures as safe as they can possibly be. -- finger pointing about MMS vs Oil companies vs. Obama is just political posturing, trying to get an edge. The real issue is the Gulf of Mexico and all the life it supports - sealife, birds, fishermen, coastal communities - you name it. Everything needs to be re-examined in a calm, methodical and thorough fashion -- taking whatever time it takes.
2. What do we do if something goes wrong.
No matter how safe everything is -- things can still go wrong == as we have just seen and still not solved.
So... what happens if something DOES go wrong?
Do we need to drill relief wells at the same time that primary wells are being drilled?
Not being an oil driller, geologist or any other related expert, I have no idea. But someone must. These issues need to be thoroughly explored -- and solved.
No matter how many drilling jobs may be stalled in the short term, there is nothing that compares with the incalculable costs the current spill is causing. This moratorium does not stop other drilling, nor does it stop the 15,000 wells currently pumping oil in the Gulf.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 22, 2010 19:56:21 GMT -5
1. Are the drilling procedures as safe as they can possibly be. -- finger pointing about MMS vs Oil companies vs. Obama is just political posturing, trying to get an edge. The real issue is the Gulf of Mexico and all the life it supports - sealife, birds, fishermen, coastal communities - you name it. Everything needs to be re-examined in a calm, methodical and thorough fashion -- taking whatever time it takes. If everything needs to be re-examined in a calm, methodical and thorough fashion, shouldn't we stop all oil production (not drilling, production) in the Gulf? |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 22, 2010 23:50:07 GMT -5
1. Are the drilling procedures as safe as they can possibly be. -- finger pointing about MMS vs Oil companies vs. Obama is just political posturing, trying to get an edge. The real issue is the Gulf of Mexico and all the life it supports - sealife, birds, fishermen, coastal communities - you name it. Everything needs to be re-examined in a calm, methodical and thorough fashion -- taking whatever time it takes. If everything needs to be re-examined in a calm, methodical and thorough fashion, shouldn't we stop all oil production (not drilling, production) in the Gulf? Perhaps Austin. I don't know. From what I've read, the most dangerous, risky part of the process is drilling and capping a new well to get it pumping oil and gas to the surface. Once it is operational, it is less risky -- especially if the automatic shut off devices have been properly installed and maintained. It also seems that deep water drilling is FAR more technically challenging than shallow water drilling -- which has not been subjected to the moratorium. Hearing spokespeople for the Petroleum Association tells us everything is safe is not enough. I find it very odd that the same people who want to blame Obama for the abysmal, decades long performance of the MMS, don't want Obama to impose a moratorium to give the Govt. time to examine all of the risks and solutions to develop new drilling procedures, requirements and regulations. We had the biggest financial crisis in 80 years, but now some folks don't think we should have new regulations for the Financial industry. We have the biggest oil spill in the history of the globe -- and it is STILL Spewing 50,000 barrels/day -- but some folks don't think we should stop anything to ensure safe drilling practices -- just keep drilling as before. Sorry, I don't get that kind of thinking. |
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Post by redskins12820 on Jun 23, 2010 0:08:30 GMT -5
Cue terrible Admin flashbacks to Chevron
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Post by hoyawatcher on Jun 23, 2010 10:31:19 GMT -5
FWIW I am not one of the 900 GU lawyers on the board and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night - but it seems to me that Salizar is inviting a contempt order if he reissues the moratorium in a new form in advance of the appeal process. If the Justice Department and Interior Department were not prepared enough to efficiently address the case the first time in court, I don't think they get to go back and redo it outside the appeal process. At least to a non-legal beagle type. It would be fun to see court directed US Marshalls serving a warrant on Salizar. I would go get popcorn and a coke to watch that one though I know it won't happen.  |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 23, 2010 10:35:38 GMT -5
CNBC this AM were discussing the judge and his holdings in oil and drilling companies. They mentioned that other judges with similar holdings had recused themselves from decisions in similar cases.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 23, 2010 12:15:25 GMT -5
Well, they've screwed up again. Managed to knock the cap off. Oil is again flowing unimpeded into the Gulf. What a nightmare!
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 23, 2010 12:37:26 GMT -5
Well, they've screwed up again. Managed to knock the cap off. Oil is again flowing unimpeded into the Gulf. What a nightmare! At this point, I think we need the services of the USS Enterprise, traveling back through time. I'm sure Scottie could fabricate some sort of transparent aluminum barrier to keep the oil in check. And while they're at it, some dilithium crystals might help us break our addiction to oil. |
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 23, 2010 12:43:20 GMT -5
^^^One of my all-time favorite programs. ;D
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