USC gets 2 year, post season football ban and...

[SirSaxa]

...they also lose schollies.

And Pete got out of Dodge just ahead of the sheriff!
Maybe he's trying to give Calipari a run for his money.

Source: USC football gets 2-year ban

Excerpt
The USC football program will receive two-year postseason ban, a reduction in scholarships and a forfeiture of wins from at least the 2004 season when the NCAA releases it sanctions on Thursday, a source told ESPN's Shelley Smith.

ESPN the Magazine's Bruce Feldman confirmed the two-year postseason ban and a reduction in scholarships from a second USC source.

USC will respond Thursday to the NCAA's findings following its investigation into possible violations by the Trojans' football and men's basketball programs, a source with direct knowledge of the situation told ESPN's Joe Schad.

[hoyarooter]

Poor USC, my heart is breaking for them (NOT).

I got stuck behind an accident on the freeway this morning, and was able to hear Rome's intro as a result. He spent most of his tie talking about the USC situation, and mentioned something that really cracked me up. There's one thing I'll say for most USC fans that I know - they stand by their team in thick or thin, as they should. These people supported USC during the Larry Smith/Ted Tollner days, just as they did during the Carroll "glory" days. But Rome said that this morning he saw one person replacing a USC decal with a UCLA decal, and another removing his USC license plate frame and replacing it with a UCLA license plate frame. That broke me up (although I wonder if it's just hyperbole).

[SirSaxa]

Jun 10, 2010 12:10:56 GMT -5 hoyarooter said:

Poor USC, my heart is breaking for them (NOT).

I got stuck behind an accident on the freeway this morning, and was able to hear Rome's intro as a result. He spent most of his tie talking about the USC situation, and mentioned something that really cracked me up. There's one thing I'll say for most USC fans that I know - they stand by their team in thick or thin, as they should. These people supported USC during the Larry Smith/Ted Tollner days, just as they did during the Carroll "glory" days. But Rome said that this morning he saw one person replacing a USC decal with a UCLA decal, and another removing his USC license plate frame and replacing it with a UCLA license plate frame. That broke me up (although I wonder if it's just hyperbole).

I don't for a second think he actually saw those things. Let's just be generous and call it "literary license".

[RDF]

Just find it ironic that in same week span that everyone is edited John Wooden--a man who was a marginal coach until Sam Gilbert filled his roster (and USC football team back in day with players) that everyone is bagging USC Football today.

It's funny how perception witih people is--if you are a old man who throws out sayings and talks of a pyramid of success--which wasn't successful until he got help from a Booster--you are a "saint".

Difference here---the modern team got CAUGHT.

[RDF]

BTW, Rooter LA is made up of:

1. Laker Fans
2. Dodger Fans
3. USC Football Fans
4. UCLA Basketball Fans

So is there a "bandwagon" fan in LA?

[DFW HOYA]

Jun 10, 2010 13:25:04 GMT -5 RDF said:

Just find it ironic that in same week span that everyone is on their knees blowing John Wooden--a man who was a marginal coach until Sam Gilbert filled his roster (and USC football team back in day with players) that everyone is bagging USC Football today.

Fact check: Gilbert did not start associating with the UCLA program until 1966. In the previous 18 years, Wooden was 343-145 (.702) with ten PCC/Pac-8 titles and never finished lower than 3rd in the conference.

[rosslynhoya]

So, any NFL franchises looking to relocate to LA now that the competition's been eliminated? (for two years anyway).

[hifigator]

Not to be lost in all of this is the fact that a certain former USC football coach is quietly going about his business in the Pacific northwest. I guess he's too busy finding ways to spend his money to talk to any media.

[SirSaxa]

Jun 10, 2010 14:07:24 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jun 10, 2010 13:25:04 GMT -5 RDF said:

Just find it ironic that in same week span that everyone is on their knees blowing John Wooden--a man who was a marginal coach until Sam Gilbert filled his roster (and USC football team back in day with players) that everyone is bagging USC Football today.

Fact check: Gilbert did not start associating with the UCLA program until 1966. In the previous 18 years, Wooden was 343-145 (.702) with ten PCC/Pac-8 titles and never finished lower than 3rd in the conference.

Not to mention, they won the NCAA title in 1964 AND 1965 with teams that started no over 6'5.

Walt Hazzard and Gail Goodrich were the Superstars on those teams. The '64 team beat Duke in the Final.

The '65 team was in the Final Four with Michigan (Cazzie Russell), Princeton with NCAA POY and Olympic Gold Medalist Bill Bradley, and Wichita State. Bradley set the NCAA record with 58 points vs. Wichita. But Gail Goodrich dropped 42 on Michigan in the Final and UCLA won its second title in a row.

1966 their title run was interrupted by that great West Texas State team coached by Don Haskins. That was the first team with an all black starting five to win the NCAA title, beating an all white Kentucky team that included Pat Riley. If your amazing title run is to be interrupted, it might as well be for one of the most historic and game changing events ever to take place in college hoops.

1967 - 1973 - -UCLA won all the titles.
1974 they were upset by NC State with superstar David Thompson
1975 they came back and won again.

Wooden may have had some help recruiting (unlike all the other teams in college basketball at the time?) but they still had to play at a VERY high level to win 88 games in a row and all those titles.

Wooden was an awesome coach. Great fundamentals. Great team play.

[hifigator]

Well said Sir. Following up on that, the lunchtime show had a guest who was the writing correspondent for 8 John Wooden books. Steven something. In any case, you could tell that he too had a lot of respect for the man, and again, as a coach and basketball mind, but more importantly, as an individual. He mentioned that Wooden always used the phrase "teacher" rather than coach. "Even in the last game that I taught ..." He said that Wooden often pointed out that he knew that over 90% of his players -- closer to 95% -- would never make any money playing basketball, so it was a lot more important that they learned the real lessons that he was allowed to teach them through basketball.

Yeah, I know there is always a lovefest when someone passes away, and no one is typically willing to be an a$$ and say bad things at such a time. But in Wooden's case, all marks point to these praises being warranted. Lastly, the host asked Steven this question:

He said that in all the time he had heard people talk about John Wooden, he didn't think he had ever heard anyone say anything bad, and then asked Steven about that. His response was that was because no one had anything bad to say about him.

[guru]

Jun 10, 2010 16:07:23 GMT -5 hifigator said:

He said that in all the time he had heard people talk about John Wooden, he didn't think he had ever heard anyone say anything bad, and then asked Steven about that. His response was that was because no one had anything bad to say about him.

Give him RDF's number

[hifigator]

Yeah, but that doesn't count. RDF has something bad to say about everyone. That doesn't reflect on Wooden, just on RDF.

[hoyarooter]

Jun 10, 2010 15:02:32 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

Jun 10, 2010 14:07:24 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Fact check: Gilbert did not start associating with the UCLA program until 1966. In the previous 18 years, Wooden was 343-145 (.702) with ten PCC/Pac-8 titles and never finished lower than 3rd in the conference.

Not to mention, they won the NCAA title in 1964 AND 1965 with teams that started no over 6'5.

Walt Hazzard and Gail Goodrich were the Superstars on those teams. The '64 team beat Duke in the Final.

The '65 team was in the Final Four with Michigan (Cazzie Russell), Princeton with NCAA POY and Olympic Gold Medalist Bill Bradley, and Wichita State. Bradley set the NCAA record with 58 points vs. Wichita. But Gail Goodrich dropped 42 on Michigan in the Final and UCLA won its second title in a row.

1966 their title run was interrupted by that great West Texas State team coached by Don Haskins. That was the first team with an all black starting five to win the NCAA title, beating an all white Kentucky team that included Pat Riley. If your amazing title run is to be interrupted, it might as well be for one of the most historic and game changing events ever to take place in college hoops.

1967 - 1973 - -UCLA won all the titles.
1974 they were upset by NC State with superstar David Thompson
1975 they came back and won again.

Wooden may have had some help recruiting (unlike all the other teams in college basketball at the time?) but they still had to play at a VERY high level to win 88 games in a row and all those titles.

Wooden was an awesome coach. Great fundamentals. Great team play.

Thanks, DFW and SirSaxa. You beat me to the punch.

The fact is that Wooden would never have measured his success by championships won. That's left for those of us who were Bruin supporters to do. It's also noteworthy that his players became much closer to him well after their college years, when the meaning of his lessons really took hold. The man was unique, and deserved all of the accolades he received.

BTW, it's also worth noting that UTEP (formerly Texas Western) can almost certainly thank the freshman ineligibility rule for its championship. If Lewis, Lucious and Lynn had been eligible to play for the varsity as freshmen, chances are really good that there would be another banner hanging in Pauley.

[hoyarooter]

Jun 10, 2010 13:26:03 GMT -5 RDF said:

BTW, Rooter LA is made up of:

1. Laker Fans
2. Dodger Fans
3. USC Football Fans
4. UCLA Basketball Fans

So is there a "bandwagon" fan in LA?

You forgot the Kings and Clippers. They have a smattering of fans, as well.

[AustinHoya03]

Tommy Tuberville wants a national championship out of this deal:

sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5273313

[RDF]

So this detracts from cheating how exactly? Wooden is close to players and they all love him, but he never knew what was going on?? So he's a genius when it comes to everything but knowing what is going on with his program, how he's getting players, etc......?

Just call it as it is--and don't care for the hero worship and don't fall for justifying cheating in one manner and then beating a drum about another.

[SFHoya99]

Jun 10, 2010 23:18:05 GMT -5 RDF said:

So this detracts from cheating how exactly? Wooden is close to players and they all love him, but he never knew what was going on?? So he's a genius when it comes to everything but knowing what is going on with his program, how he's getting players, etc......?

Just call it as it is--and don't care for the hero worship and don't fall for justifying cheating in one manner and then beating a drum about another.

I think that the point is that's the difference between

"Wooden isn't a saint" and

"Wooden wasn't that good of a coach -- he just won because he bought his players."

I agree with you on the former; if you're asserting the latter, I think you're wrong. Dude was a great coach.

[2ndRyan]

saw Pete on the tube last night doing his best Claude Rains impression:
he is "shocked" at the penalties handed out to his former employer.

[RDF]

Thing is-when NCAA comes down on you--it's not like court of law--it's a matter of the accused having to prove they are not guilty--instead of having to prove the accused guilty. So claiming ignorance only makes your punishment worse.

Todd McNair won't be long for USC after this year--he killed them and Mike Garrett will be gone very soon.

I enjoyed the way Carroll coached at USC--his teams were entertaining and fun to watch-but if you are going to do the crime--and flea while others serve your time---that's cowardly way of doing business. At least let the school dismiss you instead of leaving them with your mess. Just think it's a gutless way to handle things.

As for Wooden--just tire of the "god" status he receives when facts are he was no different then any other coach--he just came in a different, more likeable package. Just because you are a cute pig--doesn't mean you don't roll around in the mud with rest of them and when successful people start "preaching"-is when I get offended. You aren't smarter because you are successful--you are more fortunate. Credit anyone for doing well with their opportunity--but dont' like when people preach that there is a "formula" for anything--especially when they didn't realize the key ingredient to that formula was provided due to means that other places don't care to bend rules to use.

Love when a guy is said to be "close to players" and a huge "part of their lives" and then they all claim ignorance when it comes to the bad. Just my two cents and tire of hearing of a "saint" when fact is--he was no different then any other coach-he just did a fine job not screwing it up--which is good business. Same way Jim Calhoun, Coach K, John Calipari, and others who cheat, operate now and have been successful.

[SFHoya99]

The problem I have with USC getting hit like this is that the NCAA is so freaking arbitrary. Oklahoma has a systematic problem in both football and basketball -- and nothing doing there, for example.