SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on May 7, 2010 7:03:04 GMT -5
Fla. coaches believe teen is really 22-ESPNExcerpt
Jerry Joseph is a 16-year-old star high school basketball player in Odessa, Texas. U.S. Immigration officials say he's in the country illegally. And some coaches from Fort Lauderdale, Fla., believe he's a former player who starred in South Florida and is actually 22.
The 6-foot-5 Joseph, who plays for Permian High School in Odessa, has faced allegations that he is really Guerdwich Montimere, who starred at Fort Lauderdale's Dillard High School and graduated in 2007.
Cedric Smith and Louis Vives, coaches for the South Florida Elite AAU team, saw Joseph last month at an AAU tournament in Arkansas and are convinced that Joseph is Montimere.
"I'm 100 percent sure. I would bet my paycheck," Smith told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
"We saw him. We've known Guerdwich since he was in seventh or eighth grade. The mannerisms were him. It doesn't make sense. They have to do more investigations for me," Smith told the newspaper. Story also says this guy was enrolled in the Odessa, TX High School by a former teammate of the FL kid -- Montimiere -- they believe he is. Truly weird!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 7, 2010 10:18:24 GMT -5
Permian, of course, is the high school that "starred" in Friday Night Lights.
As is apparent in the book, football is the most important thing in that town. So what I'm amazed by is not that Permian would cheat, but that it is in basketball, not football.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 7, 2010 10:28:33 GMT -5
As is apparent in the book, football is the most important thing in that town. So what I'm amazed by is not that Permian would cheat, but that it is in basketball, not football. I think TV likes to portray Odessa as a small town. Actually, it has a population of 92,000, or comparable to the population of Albany, NY. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 7, 2010 10:35:34 GMT -5
Yeah, whenever I see the TV show or even the movie, they also pitch it as a small town.
But it is high school football mad, no?
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on May 7, 2010 11:57:42 GMT -5
Yeah, whenever I see the TV show or even the movie, they also pitch it as a small town. But it is high school football mad, no? Well, it is in Texas. |
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Jack
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Post by Jack on May 7, 2010 12:35:44 GMT -5
As is apparent in the book, football is the most important thing in that town. So what I'm amazed by is not that Permian would cheat, but that it is in basketball, not football. I think TV likes to portray Odessa as a small town. Actually, it has a population of 92,000, or comparable to the population of Albany, NY. Buzz Bissinger's book was about Permian in Odessa, and I think so was the movie, but the tv show is about a fictional small town called Dillon. And it comes back to NBC tonight, which is awesome news. As for this story, I am so confused. Everything seems to point to the kid being the same kid, yet ICE says differently, and they don't have any stake in this situation. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 7, 2010 14:06:22 GMT -5
I don't understand the comment about immigration officials. Are they saying that since they don't have records of this "Jerry Joseph," that he must be an illegal alien? Presumably, the Montimere kid was a citizen.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 7, 2010 14:16:49 GMT -5
I don't understand the comment about immigration officials. Are they saying that since they don't have records of this "Jerry Joseph," that he must be an illegal alien? Presumably, the Montimere kid was a citizen. Did you bother to read the article? I'm guessing no, because it's pretty clear that Immigration said that they ran Joseph's prints against Montimere's and determined that they were different people. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on May 11, 2010 23:44:27 GMT -5
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 12, 2010 13:03:00 GMT -5
SF, no at that point I was only commenting based on what was posted here. I actually missed the link the first time. No problem.
And one more thing:
SF wrote: Permian, of course, is the high school that "starred" in Friday Night Lights.
As is apparent in the book, football is the most important thing in that town. So what I'm amazed by is not that Permian would cheat, but that it is in basketball, not football.
I haven't seen any indication that anyone from the school knew anything about it. Obviously, I don't have anyway to know for sure, but at least 'til now, I haven't any reason to think differently.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on May 15, 2010 7:00:05 GMT -5
uh oh, now it's getting serious: Montimer faces sexual assault chargeExcerpt
ODESSA, Texas -- Officials say a 22-year-old man accused of posing as a high school student and basketball star in West Texas was arrested Friday on suspicion of sexual assault, his third arrest in four days.
Sgt. Gary Duesler of the Ector County Sheriff's Office said Guerdwich Montimer was charged with sexual assault, a second-degree felony, and was being held in the Ector County Detention Center on a $50,000 bond.
Montimer was arrested after a 16-year-old girl in Odessa told police and school district officials she had sex with him at a home in August when she thought he was 15-year-old Jerry Joseph, said Odessa police Cpl. Sherrie Carruth. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 17, 2010 15:00:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw that story the other day Sir. I don't really know what to think there. On one hand, we are all "sensitive" to child abuse or the sort. On the other hand, if these two were an "item" were a couple at the time, then I think it's a very touchy subject. If she was 15 or 16 and he was 16 or 17 then it's "OK." But if she was 15 or 16 and thought he was 16 or 17, but then after the fact was actually 21 or 22, then it's rape! I just have a hard time with that, and I say that as a proud father of two teenage girls. Again, 'm not trying to absolve him of guilt, but I just think that something as serious as "rape" ... even of the statutory variety, is too severe. To parallel another recent story, LT is being charged of rape. I have no idea what actually happened in that hotel room. I have heard wildly different stories, and when the truth comes out, I will be able to formulate a much better opinion. But for argument's sake, IF the girl was hired from an escort service and had falsified her age to get the position to begin with, then I don't see how the "john" could be guilty of rape. Solicitation ... yes. But not rape. Even if the girl wasn't sent from an agency and was working on her own or through a pimp, I still find it very difficult to think of the john as guilty of rape. If you think about it, that is sort of the point of paying for the service to begin with. I'm not trying to justify anything, just pointing out that logic would suggest that those who pay for the service are doing so as an alternative ot using force.
In the case of Guerdwich, was he guilty of rape ... or fraud? In LT's case, was he guilty of rape or was she guilty of fraud? Actually, now there are even more confliciting stories, at least one stating that they didn't have sex and that the girl herself said so when she got in the car to leave. I don't know what to think and I see the obvious conflict, and maybe I just place too much animostity on the word "rape." Either way, I just have a hard time thinking of these cases in such a light.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 17, 2010 16:06:23 GMT -5
Um, I'm fairly sure the person who committed the act of Statuatory Rape was 22, and he knew he was 22.
You really have no problem with a 22-year old man lying to your daughter about his age and having sex with her under that pretense?
If you have a problem with statuatory rape, well, I don't agree, but you're opinion. I'm not sure why the fact that person in question said they were younger makes it "better."
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 18, 2010 10:52:09 GMT -5
SF, that's not exactly what I was saying. I'm just trying to parallel the two stories. In LT's case, she was a callgirl. There is some sort of pretense that both sides know what they are getting there. Yet, in addition to the illegal activity itself, somehow LT is responsible because the hooker wasn't of age.
In Guerdwich's case, he was living the life of a 17 year old. I don't know how well they knew each other or how long they had been dating. But it's at least somewhat likely that they were a typical high school coupld. For that matter, after a while, I would think that Guerdwich didn't even think of himself as Guerdwich, but rather as 17 year old Jerry Joseph. And from her standpoint, she knew what she was getting. SHe was getting this guy from the basketball team. I just have a hard time thinking that she was some how done especially wrong because he was a little older than he said.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 18, 2010 11:39:51 GMT -5
You do know that she doesn't get punished? He was posing as 16-year old, likely lied to a girl and had sex with her while he was overage and underage.
Again, I fail to understand why him lying about his age is a point in his favor relative to say, a 22-year old sleeping with a teenager and being honest about being 22.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 18, 2010 23:30:50 GMT -5
SF, I understand that, and I am admittedly caught in the middle in general on the issue. I understand the need to harshly and severely punish child molesters. I also understand the need to strongly discourage and punish those who would prey on the vulnerable. And maybe there is some of that here. I honestly don't know. Just off the cuff and giving my opinion spontaneously, so to speak, I just have a hard time placing his actions -- at least those which are known -- at the levels which I place Rape. I understand the specific laws are different with respect to exact ages, and I do respect the laws themselves. And maybe the "problem" is with me. I view "rape" and "child molestation" in absolutely terrible and horrific light. Accordingly, I have ZERO sympathy for those involved in such actions. But we've all been teenagers once ... some more than once, apparently -- ba-doom-clash!! Seriously though, and again, solely from what I know on the story, which is admittedly very limited, I have a hard time placing, what I view as such terrible charges in either LT's or "Jerry Joseph's" situations. Although I do understand the logic.
In LT's case, he was guilty -- at least, let's assume so, for this discussion -- of solicitation. If there wasn't any other extenuation circumstances, and everything was consensual -- and in my mind, made even more consensual by the person willingly taking the money -- then I have a very difficult time placing a rape charge on LT.
The other case is more difficult and again, I don't know the details. But if my scenario is true, then I would probably have the same reservations. Here is a naturalized American with no family to speak of. He is good at basketball and probably thinks he might have a future in it down the road, but isn't ready yet. Maybe he then made a wrong decision. OK, he DID make a wrong decision, but that's not the question. Maybe he thought that with a few more years of developing his skills, he could succeed. Why else, if he wasn't wanted for something, would someone elect to move from Ft. Lauderdale to Odessa, Tx. and go through high school again? Did he understand the severity of his crimes? Maybe, maybe not. And I have zero problem with charging him with fraud as well as requiring restitution for his crimes. That is maybe where the problem is. Should he repay all expenses and more that he cost those through his fraud? Absolutely. Should he have to additionally be penalized and pay into a victims compensation fund, which will be used to assist future victims of crimes? Absolutely. But IF ... and again, I don't know more than what I have read ... but IF he was attending school and going about all of the normal activities that a teenager would ... and if there wasn't any kind of collusion with authorities or the sort, then I think it is very reasonable to think that it wouldn't take long to "assume" the role of that which you originally were pretending. Did he ever totally forget who he was? No, and I'm not saying that, but I'm sure some psychiatrists/psychologists would suggest so. Either way, my point is that maybe he "was" a high schooler, in almost every sense of the word.
Now I would add that if he were to use his "celeb status" to artificially entice these impressionable girls, then I would obviously rethink that. But if he had a typical relationship -- the kind most of us probably had, and the kind most of our parents didn't approve of -- and then IF that ended in a typical fashion as most do at that "age" (insert joke here ___), and then IF this "Rape" issue only came about some time later after the story breaks about the entire fraud issue, then ... and I reiterate THEN, I would have to think long and hard about charging this individual with "Rape."
This is a toughy, sense I am so sensitive to both rape and child molesting issues, but does this position make any sense? Do you all think there is a clear contradiction, or not? Maybe a murky contradiction or none at all?
Thoughts?
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on May 19, 2010 8:40:56 GMT -5
Your post makes perfect sense if you would just say that you don't believe what constitutes statutory rape is a crime. Allegedly a 22 year old had sex with a minor. That is statutory rape. The fact that the 22 year old lied about his age, rather than perhaps the more common example that the minor lied about her age, does not make it less of a crime. In fact, it makes it worse.
Even John Cryer had enough sense to stay away from Annabeth Gish in Hiding Out.
hm
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 19, 2010 9:27:32 GMT -5
Exactly, Hoops.
Concocting some weird defense where the person who committed the act supposedly deluded themselves into thinking they were really 16 with no basis in fact is just very..hifi.
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Post by bingbearcats on May 19, 2010 10:53:03 GMT -5
Not to mention that this guy chose to delude himself by becoming this alter ego. It's not like it was forced on him.
(That assumes that he deluded himself at all, which is a huge assumption.)
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 19, 2010 12:36:13 GMT -5
I see those points. Again, maybe it is just how strongly I view actual rape, and I admittedly do problems the way some statutory laws are set up. Really, I'm more focusing on LT, but I did see some parallels with "joseph."
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