Antiterrorism and Failed Attacks Discussion

[jerseyhoya34]

abcnews.go.com/Blotter/air-marshals-stop-shoe-bomb-attempt-united-jet/story?id=10315314

The details are still emerging, but there appears to be an attempted attack on a Denver-bound plane by a Qatari diplomat (3rd secretary and vice-consul), who appears to have diplomatic immunity. This very much sounds like a hypothetical on a law exam, but those are the facts as we know them right now.

Air marshals tackled the apparent bomber, and the plane has landed safely otherwise. Details about whether or not he had explosives are unclear. Most stories I've read have the "we smelled smoke" tinge to them. Latest reporting suggests this may have been a hoax, but nothing really solid on that front yet.

ABC is now reporting that no explosives were found in the diplomat's shoes or elsewhere. Seems like a stupid hoax.

[Bando]

He seems to have tried to sneak a cigarette in the bathroom. Good thing Obama didn't nuke Qatar overnight. Although had he done so, it would have shown resolve the face of our enemies. WOLVERINES!

[Boz]

Apr 8, 2010 13:46:34 GMT -5 Bando said:

He seems to have tried to sneak a cigarette in the bathroom. Good thing Obama didn't nuke Qatar overnight. Although had he done so, it would have shown resolve the face of our enemies. WOLVERINES!

A cogent and fair interpretation of the conservative viewpoint.

Thank you. I have nothing to add to that.


But maybe we can PNG this jerkwad at least.

[theexorcist]

What gets me is how people consider this a race thing.

Smoking in an airplane bathroom is a federal offense. Anyone who says "I'm trying to light my shoe" on an airplane after being questioned deserves to be quickly tackled and ideally have one or two punches accidentally land on their kidneys, no matter what their race or religion.

[Deleted]

Apr 8, 2010 14:03:41 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

What gets me is how people consider this a race thing.

Smoking in an airplane bathroom is a federal offense. Anyone who says "I'm trying to light my shoe" on an airplane after being questioned deserves to be quickly tackled and ideally have one or two punches accidentally land on their kidneys, no matter what their race or religion.

Who's calling it a race thing? There's nothing of the sort in the link above, nor in the stories about it online at the Washington Post, the New York Times, or CNN.

Fox News' online story does include this quote from Republican Congressman Pete Hoekstra: "Getting on a U.S. flight, smoking a cigarette and making jokes about it is totally inappropriate and somebody from the Middle East should understand that," he told FoxNews.com. "Even being dumb, there are consequences for it," he said. "I think an American would have the book thrown at him."

Those damn conservatives, always playing the race card...

[Boz]

On a lighter note -- and one on which I think we can all agree -- should we really expect any better from a WG student?

Be proud, George Washington U. Be proud.

[theexorcist]

Apr 8, 2010 14:20:55 GMT -5 @cam said:

Apr 8, 2010 14:03:41 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

What gets me is how people consider this a race thing.

Smoking in an airplane bathroom is a federal offense. Anyone who says "I'm trying to light my shoe" on an airplane after being questioned deserves to be quickly tackled and ideally have one or two punches accidentally land on their kidneys, no matter what their race or religion.

Who's calling it a race thing? There's nothing of the sort in the link above, nor in the stories about it online at the Washington Post, the New York Times, or CNN.

Fox News' online story does include this quote from Republican Congressman Pete Hoekstra: "Getting on a U.S. flight, smoking a cigarette and making jokes about it is totally inappropriate and somebody from the Middle East should understand that," he told FoxNews.com. "Even being dumb, there are consequences for it," he said. "I think an American would have the book thrown at him."

Those damn conservatives, always playing the race card...

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/04/08/DI2010040802854.html

"Maryland: I guess my question (and of course this is all speculation) is would a white guy have been treated with the same level of suspicion?

Spencer Hsu: One part of this is that after the 12/25 bombing attempt by a Nigerian man, Omar Farouk Abdulmutallab, aboard a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam-to-Detroit, the U.S. government imposed added security screening for people from and traveling through 14 countries. 13 of them were predominantly Muslim, the other was Cuba.

Security experts, civil liberties groups, U.S. Muslim organizations, and diplomats from countries such as Nigeria, which along with Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia was on the list, protested that the rule was both unfair and unworkable.

In short, they said the rule would essentially profile 675 million US Muslims, passport-holders of those countries, and travelers there, while giving al Qaeda a road map of where else to recruit people.

Just a week ago, the U.S. said it will change the system later this month to focus on intelligence-based screening. But U.S. relations are still smarting from that overbroad initial reaction. "

[TigerHoya]

The diplomat was en route to an official visit to a jailed al Qaeda sleeper agent in Denver.

[Deleted]

Apr 8, 2010 14:58:39 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

Apr 8, 2010 14:20:55 GMT -5 @cam said:

Who's calling it a race thing? There's nothing of the sort in the link above, nor in the stories about it online at the Washington Post, the New York Times, or CNN.

Fox News' online story does include this quote from Republican Congressman Pete Hoekstra: "Getting on a U.S. flight, smoking a cigarette and making jokes about it is totally inappropriate and somebody from the Middle East should understand that," he told FoxNews.com. "Even being dumb, there are consequences for it," he said. "I think an American would have the book thrown at him."

Those damn conservatives, always playing the race card...

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/04/08/DI2010040802854.html

"Maryland: I guess my question (and of course this is all speculation) is would a white guy have been treated with the same level of suspicion?

Spencer Hsu: One part of this is that after the 12/25 bombing attempt by a Nigerian man, Omar Farouk Abdulmutallab, aboard a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam-to-Detroit, the U.S. government imposed added security screening for people from and traveling through 14 countries. 13 of them were predominantly Muslim, the other was Cuba.

Security experts, civil liberties groups, U.S. Muslim organizations, and diplomats from countries such as Nigeria, which along with Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia was on the list, protested that the rule was both unfair and unworkable.

In short, they said the rule would essentially profile 675 million US Muslims, passport-holders of those countries, and travelers there, while giving al Qaeda a road map of where else to recruit people.

Just a week ago, the U.S. said it will change the system later this month to focus on intelligence-based screening. But U.S. relations are still smarting from that overbroad initial reaction. "

So...one Washington Post online chatter, identified as "Maryland", has made this a race thing, so it's officially a race thing? Not buying it.

And the answer from the Post guy here refers not to what actually happened on the plane, but to screening that happens before anyone boards.

In short, meh.

[jgalt]

Listen, when Charlie, the Bassist from Drive Shaft was in the bathroom on that Oceanic flight, they were suspicious of him too- and hes white!

[rosslynhoya]

I normally would react the way Hoekstra did, but I read that when the flight attendant caught him with the cigarette in the lavatory and asked him what he was doing, the diplomat responded, I'm trying to set my shoe on fire, what do you think I'm doing?

That is actually a fairly funny retort.

You can punish the guy for smoking in the lavatory, or at least attempt to, but the "crisis" that emerged is completely 100% the fault of the stewardess and the air marshals on board that flight who were obviously incapable of discerning the situation and responding appropriately. It reminds me completely of the USAir flight back in January that had to make an emergency landing due to the Orthodox Jewish kid praying with his tefillin.

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/01/21/2010-01-21_jewish_teens_tefillin_sets_off_bomb_scare_that_diverts_us_airways_flight_from_la.html

Has anyone seen an explanation from the TSA regarding why they had to detain the rest fo the passengers for hours after landing? It's dismal that ten years after 9/11, the TSA still doesn't have any recourse to a suspected threat other than to flip out after the fact.

[EasyEd]

Anybody read TigerHoyas post above? Doesn't sound like it.

[The Stig]

Apr 8, 2010 19:05:21 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

Anybody read TigerHoyas post above? Doesn't sound like it.

Unless the flight attendant/air marshal knew this, then I don't see how its relevant.

Anyways, if an Arab on a flight tells you they're trying to set a bomb off in their shoe, it's a pretty good clue that they're not going to set a bomb off in their shoe. It was a stupid joke, but somebody who's actually trying to bring down a plane isn't going to tell you what they're doing.

Also, a shoe bomb in the lavatory isn't much of a threat to the plane. It would scare a lot of people, it would create a big mess, but it probably wouldn't kill anybody other than the person who set it off. I know of a few cases where people set off hand grenades in lavatories, and it never brought down the plane.

[hoyaalf]

How about some evidentiary support there? even a sleazy website.

In the meantime, I can assert that he was on his way to Denver to meet a Republican in a men's room.

Bare assertions do not count for much. Pray, enlighten the ignorant.

[Boz]

Apr 8, 2010 20:40:04 GMT -5 hoyaalf said:

How about some evidentiary support there? even a sleazy website.

In the meantime, I can assert that he was on his way to Denver to meet a Republican in a men's room.

Bare assertions do not count for much. Pray, enlighten the ignorant.

tinyurl.com/ycohmdu

(I give myself bonus points for the "sleazy Web site" part as well.)

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Why does it matter that's who he was visiting exactly? He was doing his duty to check to make sure the prisoner was being treated humanely. Are people implying he was a terrorist because of who he was visiting? I'm confused.

[The Stig]

It looks like this guy wasn't even the craziest/stupidest airline passenger to get in trouble this week:

A woman on a United Airlines flight went crazy after she became convinced that the men sitting next to her were terrorists (because one had a cell phone): www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/Woman-Charged-After-Flight-Diverted-To-Omaha-90146167.html

A man on a Qantas flight was restrained by crew after he threatened to bring down the flight using mind power: www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/06/2864643.htm

With this in mind, a botched joke from a stupid diplomat isn't really that newsworthy. This sort of junk happens all the time.

[theexorcist]

Apr 8, 2010 15:19:25 GMT -5 @cam said:

Apr 8, 2010 14:58:39 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/04/08/DI2010040802854.html

"Maryland: I guess my question (and of course this is all speculation) is would a white guy have been treated with the same level of suspicion?

Spencer Hsu: One part of this is that after the 12/25 bombing attempt by a Nigerian man, Omar Farouk Abdulmutallab, aboard a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam-to-Detroit, the U.S. government imposed added security screening for people from and traveling through 14 countries. 13 of them were predominantly Muslim, the other was Cuba.

Security experts, civil liberties groups, U.S. Muslim organizations, and diplomats from countries such as Nigeria, which along with Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia was on the list, protested that the rule was both unfair and unworkable.

In short, they said the rule would essentially profile 675 million US Muslims, passport-holders of those countries, and travelers there, while giving al Qaeda a road map of where else to recruit people.

Just a week ago, the U.S. said it will change the system later this month to focus on intelligence-based screening. But U.S. relations are still smarting from that overbroad initial reaction. "

So...one Washington Post online chatter, identified as "Maryland", has made this a race thing, so it's officially a race thing? Not buying it.

And the answer from the Post guy here refers not to what actually happened on the plane, but to screening that happens before anyone boards.

In short, meh.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/08/AR2010040805826_pf.html

"As word of Madadi's fate traveled quickly through Washington's diplomatic community, the reaction at Arab and Muslim embassies was twofold. There was widespread agreement that Madadi appeared to have done a dumb thing. But many think that profiling was involved, and that the situation would not have gone so far if Madadi were not Arab.

"We all share the same concerns about profiling of Arabs and Arab Americans in a time of strong anxiety, particularly in the air travel industry," said one ambassador. Enhanced security, he said, is in "everyone's best interest, and we hope and expect the security procedures are implemented uniformly."

One of his colleagues was more blunt, saying that the incident "never would have happened if [Madadi] were Swedish."

Several diplomats from Arab and Muslim-majority countries said they had been stopped while boarding domestic flights in the United States, many for secondary searches and pat-downs they think were initiated because of their names or nationalities. "They're not supposed to do pat-downs of ambassadors," said one chief of mission, "but my choice is to argue about it or just get it over with."

"I have a U.S. passport" in addition to that of the country he represents, another diplomat said. "But I've had situations where I'm traveling with a blond, blue-eyed person and I'm the one who gets pulled out for secondary checking.""

[Bando]

Apr 8, 2010 19:05:21 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

Anybody read TigerHoyas post above? Doesn't sound like it.

Yes. It seems like you're the only one, though, that assumed the diplomat was visiting him to hatch a terror plot, instead of the truth (that he was fulfilling a consular duty afforded to alien prisoners in foreign countries, per international treaty).

[hoyaalf]

Apr 8, 2010 20:49:22 GMT -5 Boz said:

Apr 8, 2010 20:40:04 GMT -5 hoyaalf said:

How about some evidentiary support there? even a sleazy website.

In the meantime, I can assert that he was on his way to Denver to meet a Republican in a men's room.

Bare assertions do not count for much. Pray, enlighten the ignorant.

tinyurl.com/ycohmdu

(I give myself bonus points for the "sleazy Web site" part as well.)

O. K. you''re right, but there was no need to get Huffington about it.