swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Mar 4, 2010 17:31:55 GMT -5
RDF,
I'm sorry, but I seriously doubt that when you were Chris' age, the only people you listened to were your parents, teachers, and maybe that nice old man down the street that gave you such helpful advice. And I'm sure that if someone said something bad about you, you didn't take it personally or think about it at all.
I mean really, I was harping on his game against ND, but is it ok for these kids to be human? If someone says something negative about me, I take it personally. And I don't have people spreading it over facebook and talk boards and everything else. So maybe we should cut him some slack in that regard.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Mar 4, 2010 18:29:21 GMT -5
Maybe it's a generational difference, but I grew up and coaches/people were only criticizing you if they felt you had more ability then you were showing--whether that was in class, in sports, or at a job. If you take the approach that everyone who is criticizing you is "hating"--then you are a thin skinned wimp who really needs to avoid the places that you will see yourself getting blasted and never expect to accomplish anything of importance. That is the point--whether the overly sensitive people like it or not.
If you have been a fan of this program as long as I and a lot of others have been--you know the difference in attitude from these players and those in past. Georgetown used to be a program you knew would be in your face, on the edge and never outworked. They might have not been the most talented group--but you never questioned whether guys were leaving it on the court or not. Can you say the same about these guys? Can you honestly watch someone with Chris Wright and Jason Clark's physical ability and think they are incapable of playing good defense on their man/on the ball? I don't. To me, they have more then they show and if they are satisfied with "coming back from behind" and throwing away a half of basketball--then that will get criticized, the team will continue to lose, and the "Do Gooders" will wonder why this is happening because their mythical season has been altered. Holy Bracketology! What's happened to Hoyas--better go check Ken Pomeroy's site to see if the balance of corn/beef is good enough for me to be "regular" and if so--why aren't Hoyas winning the games he's said they would??
If you don't like people to criticize you--there are ways to avoid this. You get what you put into anything--and if you can honestly say that you've done everything you can to improve as a player/make the team better, then there is nothing to be upset about when someone questions you. Based on what I've seen in games, I highly doubt the effort is being put forth by very talented/capable players and it shows. Everyone loves to play offensive basketball--and defensive success takes all 5 on the court, and a commitment to be unselfish. When Wright/Clark do this--the team is at it's best. Problem is, this hasn't happened consistently in over a month. If that isn't what others see--so be it--but dont' complain about the losing and "celebrate" comebacks that fall short. Players control the fate of a season--not me, not you, Not Lunardi and Pomeroy aka Dungeon&Dragon--and not the type of food you eat or not changing your underwear or panties because team is on a streak. It's a simple game and all that is asked is for maximum effort and commitment. If a guy has time to be overly sensitive to fans criticizing him--he has time to take his defensive assignment seriously, learn what his position is about, and prove anyone who doubts wrong.
Understand that people get upset when they are challenged, but do they do anything about it? We live in a generation where everyone wants to say "you are not a fan if you criticize--you are a HATER". If that is so--these guys have ample time/opportunities to prove those who question them wrong. So far, have they? Who on this team--coach included has proved my criticisms wrong? Whether you like me or not--I'm always here to answer if I'm right/wrong. I don't gloat if I'm correct--because I don't have to--I make my observations based on what I'm seeing and for whatever reason I've been "fortunate" to realize what a winning/serious contending team looks like, and what a flawed, not reaching their potential group looks like. If I'm wrong--I'll admit I'm wrong and credit someone which so many of the great and loudest voices here and on other social networks often seem to go AWOL when they are proven wrong.
Just think being a fan means sharing viewpoints that you see--and unfortunately for those who live in a world they hate to hear anything negative--this is forum to do that. If you really get that offended--dont' read what is written. If you do not want to know why the team is failing--don't read what some posters say--because we're going to share what we see and you don't need to be a current coach/player to understand what good/bad teams do that seals their fate.
I've been a fan for 30 years this April--and want the best for everyone in this program. Unlike some of you--I don't know these guys as people and I dont' care if they are great people--they should be--it's not something you should be rewarded for--it's your responsibility as a person. Everyone wants rewards, credit, etc...and doesn't want to deal with the fact you need to be responsible, take responsibility, and not take criticism as a negative. It's when people stop caring at all--and just accept your inability to do anything when you should be concerned. Then again--I only care about winning and doing well and find anything less as motivation--not reason to send "messages" to fans to back off and take my blanket and go home so I can brag about the fact I study for a test. Great--like nobody else does and like nobody else does anything that keeps them busy.
If you can't take being criticized-you picked the wrong forum to visit and definately the wrong forum to play. Health Clubs, YMCA's, and Community Centers are open for you to play ball and never hear a peep--so it's up to Wright and guys like him. Either step it up or sink--but quit worrying about what people who don't matter say--and if it bothers you--prove us wrong.
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Post by roysgirlfriend on Mar 4, 2010 19:26:16 GMT -5
Great post RDF. I'm sorry I assumed everyone (or the majority) of this board was a "do gooder." I'm glad some people realize there is a place for criticism from fans who actually want the team to do well.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Mar 4, 2010 19:36:10 GMT -5
For those who don't understand the concept of "rabbit ears"---it's about having THIN skin--as in maybe you shouldn't be wasting time engaging with those who you don't agree with. I INVITE arguments and like to Edited people off--so it's fun to laugh at the basketball retarded who think Joe Lunardi is an "expert" or Ken Pomeroy holds the fate of a "season in his stats". So it's fun to engage, argue, and fight with that mentality. Chris Wright is a player I like--but he needs to grow up and realize that not everyone in life is going to like you, how you play, and they all will offer advice. As Pops said this past Summer in the "Homecoming" Zo did with Rick Reilly--you have to convince kids today that you know what you are talking about--just to be able to pass on the knowledge you have to help improve their game. So we've got an issue where Chris Wright and kids like him--listen to what a bunch of fans say about their game--and engage in that and follow it? It's pathetic. The only people who should worry about message boards are the fans because if you are a coach/player/parent you better realize that there will always be CRITICISM--fair/unfair. Thing is--if you are a player/coach--you can CONTROL the outcome--fans can't. So prove them wrong if you don't like what they are saying. Just think it's ridiculous that a player who had a horrific 1st Half of a game--and Chris flat out SUCKED against WVU--until game was out of reach, and then he had a nice 2nd Half on offensive end and everyone talks about "heart" he showed. He's almost to his SR year and you know what--"heart" isn't playing like dog feces for one half-and not giving your all on defensive end of court--as he and Jason Clark have done all year--and they should be criticized because their performance isn't matching their potential/ability. When that happens--most fans who care--are going to want to see them improve--but again--you can take criticism as "hatred" or you can take it as "people care and want to see you get better/improve"--either way--it should matter a helluva lot more what his COACH thinks then what people on Twitter, Facebook, and message boards do--but obviously he's in category that he/his inner circle like to read about themselves/teammates--which is fine--but to acknowledge it--not the best thing imo. He's got too much talent to waste his career never figuring out how to lead a team--and how to play championship caliber basketball--which he's still light years away from doing. Credit him for trying to change--but it's time to change and be better-or just realize--he'll get blasted on all forums because people judge you on winning/not stats. Fair/Unfair. RDF - if telling someone they played like dog feces and did not give his all on defense is your way of saying that you "care" and just "want to see you get better and improve", I am awfully glad I'm not your wife or kids! Well--everyone else has been treating him like an EXPLETIVE newborn and he's done very little to change his defense. Sorry--but he played horrific basketball in the 1st Half against WVU. It's the TRUTH. I've supported Chris Wright and still do--think he's a talented guy--and he's tried to improve his offensive approach--but defensively--he's not improved at all and it kills the team. Jason Clark too. If lying to people about their performance, lying to them to "protect" them is your method of dealing with challenges you face, then I'm glad I dont' know you--nor do I want to. Certainly explains why you would defend such pathetic lack of production/effort--because Wright more then possesses the ability to be a solid defensive player. God forbid anyone for having a dissenting opinion on a messageboard and one that has actual points--unlike: "Way to Go Chris--you are the best". "Chris--I think there are two things in life that measure up to you--Joe Lunardi and Ken Pom". "Chris--you are the man. That close loss was great--and just ran out of time." "Chris--the way that opposing guard drove around you like you were standing still, that was Wright-licious". "Chris--hit me up on Facebook, need tickets to Final Four--as we're going all the way. Forget that loss to Rutgers--you had a cold and weren't 100%--and your shoes weren't right for ND game--that is on the uniforms--besides Austin was sick and you can't expect to beat a Mike Brey team when you're not at full strength"--love HoyaNation
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 4, 2010 19:49:37 GMT -5
AWESOME POST RDF you are the man
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 4, 2010 19:58:57 GMT -5
Great post. And even Ken Pomeroy's funhouse will tell you this team is playing defense at the same rate as the 2004 team. That would be the 2004 team consisting of Cook, Owens, Riley, Bowman, and Courtland Freeman. No high school accolades, and three first-time starters, including a 6'8 center on a pegleg.
That team forced a Sweet 16 Syracuse team into its lowest point total of the season outside of top 5 Pitt. They needed a miracle by McNamara to beat us.
That team was short, slow, young, and terrible and couldn't win a damn game the last third of the season. That team with the right philosophy and hard work played defense as well as this group.
I've said before, I can handle losing. I don't expect national championships every year or the NCAAs.
But getting outworked on defense, I can't deal with. I don't want them to "figure it out," I don't want them to tell me how the other team "wanted it more" and I don't want III to tell me he's "extremely disappointed." I want them to play defense as long as it takes. Not 27 seconds and then when your opponent scores after 29 seconds, slump your shoulders and make "Norv Turner mildly-agitated" face. No no. You play defense as long as it takes to stop them. If you don't want to play 30 seconds, take the ball after 16 and you don't have a problem.
That's what I want to see Saturday. I saw them do it against Seton Hall in the first half so I know they can. They just have to want to. They're so much better than their defensive effort so far this season and they owe it to themselves (not us) not to lose one more game to an inferior opponent because of defense.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 4, 2010 20:05:11 GMT -5
RDF, I think you are way off base in your assertion that Chris and Jason are not giving 100% at all times. Maybe you think you can determine that by watching the game but maybe you are wrong. I've been following Georgetown basketball for 30 years longer than you and I've seen Jason and Chris chasing the opposition's guards all over the place trying to lock down defense on them. And I think their legs are tired and that's what you are seeing and this is partly a reflection of a small bench. You also don't know if each has been nursing some ailment though I have no info suggesting it. But I'll not jump to the conclusion they are not giving it their all. Now you even decided to mock them with your attempt at humor at the end of your last post.
I have no problem with criticizing the play of guys on the team but I have a big problem when you choose to accuse them of not going all out or quitting. And a bigger problem with mocking them, as you often do with others who post on this board, including me.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 4, 2010 21:39:42 GMT -5
I agree with RDF about Chris and Jasons defense, although I disagree that effort is the sole cause. Chris and Jason need to go back and figure out how Jessie and Jon defended people. While Chris and Jason are both gifted with great acceleration and north to south speed, they are both lack real lateral quickness. They need to get craftier and use their other assests to their advantage, and play smarter defense. Thats the main problem with this team, they don't play "smart" defense. Very frustrating.
And RDF, there a difference between criticism and crazy fans berating you to the point exhaustion. These guys have facebook/twitter/whatever on their phone, meaning whenever anyone sends any sort of message to you it sets off you're phone. When some of those messages are calling you a cancer to the team, and blaming you for half of the teams losses, etc. etc I think its more than just criticism because they care. Do you really think Chris Wright was getting helpful little criticsims from knowledgeable fans like you about things he needs to improve? No, I can almost guarentee the people saying anything to him were the wackjobs on this board convinced he should be benched anytime commits a turnover. And I'm not saying these players are above criticism. Chris is a bad defender, I've known this since before he came here. He needs to realize he doesn't have the lateral quickness to overplay on the top and can't always depend on his quick hands to save him. I don't know if thats effort, quite as much as realizing the limitations of your ability. Jason is really the same thing, he's not laterally quick enough to play so tight up top. Jason needs to work creating his own shot. He's fast enough to get by a lot of players, but doesn't have the finishing ability. Chris needs more consistency on offense. He hasn't done a good job balancing the scoring and creating side with the running of the team the last month. Hes turned into a quasi Jon Wallace without the outside shot, and lets just say I don't like it. Maybe he can snap back into a scoring threat before the seasons over, but I don't think thats something you can turn back on. Those are all criticisms, and what you said were all criticisms, but there are people here that go above and beyond the realm of criticisms. Which is when I, and others, have a problem with it.
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Post by wahoohoya on Mar 4, 2010 21:42:55 GMT -5
Reading RDF's posts made me go back to watch the first half of the WVU game. I didn't see a lack of effort by Wright on the defensive side. I saw overall poor team defense at times (mostly by the bench guys) and a few bad decisions by Wright on the offensive side when he started forcing things, but he was playing hard pretty much the entire time. Jason's turnovers were a killer - he needs to tighten that up. And it was inexcusable for Greg to barely get any touches at all during West Virginia's big run. It's certainly fair to criticize Chris for his decision making at times, but the kid plays hard. Only reason he might seem to ease up at times is because he has to pace himself given how many minutes he is forced to play.
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 4, 2010 22:58:59 GMT -5
Maybe it's a generational difference, but I grew up and coaches/people were only criticizing you if they felt you had more ability then you were showing--whether that was in class, in sports, or at a job. If you take the approach that everyone who is criticizing you is "hating"--then you are a thin skinned wimp who really needs to avoid the places that you will see yourself getting blasted and never expect to accomplish anything of importance. That is the point--whether the overly sensitive people like it or not. If you have been a fan of this program as long as I and a lot of others have been--you know the difference in attitude from these players and those in past. Georgetown used to be a program you knew would be in your face, on the edge and never outworked. They might have not been the most talented group--but you never questioned whether guys were leaving it on the court or not. Can you say the same about these guys? Can you honestly watch someone with Chris Wright and Jason Clark's physical ability and think they are incapable of playing good defense on their man/on the ball? I don't. To me, they have more then they show and if they are satisfied with "coming back from behind" and throwing away a half of basketball--then that will get criticized, the team will continue to lose, and the "Do Gooders" will wonder why this is happening because their mythical season has been altered. Holy Bracketology! What's happened to Hoyas--better go check Ken Pomeroy's site to see if the balance of corn/beef is good enough for me to be "regular" and if so--why aren't Hoyas winning the games he's said they would?? If you don't like people to criticize you--there are ways to avoid this. You get what you put into anything--and if you can honestly say that you've done everything you can to improve as a player/make the team better, then there is nothing to be upset about when someone questions you. Based on what I've seen in games, I highly doubt the effort is being put forth by very talented/capable players and it shows. Everyone loves to play offensive basketball--and defensive success takes all 5 on the court, and a commitment to be unselfish. When Wright/Clark do this--the team is at it's best. Problem is, this hasn't happened consistently in over a month. If that isn't what others see--so be it--but dont' complain about the losing and "celebrate" comebacks that fall short. Players control the fate of a season--not me, not you, Not Lunardi and Pomeroy aka Dungeon&Dragon--and not the type of food you eat or not changing your underwear or panties because team is on a streak. It's a simple game and all that is asked is for maximum effort and commitment. If a guy has time to be overly sensitive to fans criticizing him--he has time to take his defensive assignment seriously, learn what his position is about, and prove anyone who doubts wrong. Understand that people get upset when they are challenged, but do they do anything about it? We live in a generation where everyone wants to say "you are not a fan if you criticize--you are a HATER". If that is so--these guys have ample time/opportunities to prove those who question them wrong. So far, have they? Who on this team--coach included has proved my criticisms wrong? Whether you like me or not--I'm always here to answer if I'm right/wrong. I don't gloat if I'm correct--because I don't have to--I make my observations based on what I'm seeing and for whatever reason I've been "fortunate" to realize what a winning/serious contending team looks like, and what a flawed, not reaching their potential group looks like. If I'm wrong--I'll admit I'm wrong and credit someone which so many of the great and loudest voices here and on other social networks often seem to go AWOL when they are proven wrong. Just think being a fan means sharing viewpoints that you see--and unfortunately for those who live in a world they hate to hear anything negative--this is forum to do that. If you really get that offended--dont' read what is written. If you do not want to know why the team is failing--don't read what some posters say--because we're going to share what we see and you don't need to be a current coach/player to understand what good/bad teams do that seals their fate. I've been a fan for 30 years this April--and want the best for everyone in this program. Unlike some of you--I don't know these guys as people and I dont' care if they are great people--they should be--it's not something you should be rewarded for--it's your responsibility as a person. Everyone wants rewards, credit, etc...and doesn't want to deal with the fact you need to be responsible, take responsibility, and not take criticism as a negative. It's when people stop caring at all--and just accept your inability to do anything when you should be concerned. Then again--I only care about winning and doing well and find anything less as motivation--not reason to send "messages" to fans to back off and take my blanket and go home so I can brag about the fact I study for a test. Great--like nobody else does and like nobody else does anything that keeps them busy. If you can't take being criticized-you picked the wrong forum to visit and definately the wrong forum to play. Health Clubs, YMCA's, and Community Centers are open for you to play ball and never hear a peep--so it's up to Wright and guys like him. Either step it up or sink--but quit worrying about what people who don't matter say--and if it bothers you--prove us wrong. I see -- your pitch is "face up and take it like a man." This from someone who has posted anonymously nearly 6,000 times on a board where no one is accountable for anything. Check, please.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 4, 2010 23:05:37 GMT -5
I see -- your pitch is "face up and take it like a man." This from someone who has posted anonymously nearly 6,000 times on a board where no one is accountable for anything. Check, please. RDF is your classic argumentative, attack dog sports radio guy. He's from the same mold as Colin Cowherd and Jim Rome, right down to modifying names to show his "wit" and mocking more advanced statistics.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 5, 2010 0:01:35 GMT -5
I see -- your pitch is "face up and take it like a man." This from someone who has posted anonymously nearly 6,000 times on a board where no one is accountable for anything. Check, please. RDF is your classic argumentative, attack dog sports radio guy. He's from the same mold as Colin Cowherd and Jim Rome, right down to modifying names to show his "wit" and mocking more advanced statistics. So what is the solution you gentlemen see? Jason Clark and Chris Wright play half ass defense--and it causes most of their teammates to commit fouls or rotate over and that gives up easy hoops. Now if they are tired--your best place to rest is on offensive end--but nobody on this team wants to defer there--that is where the "glory" is in basketball--so you think these guys aren't going to bust it on that end of court? Ed--they are capable of more. If you want to talk about a lack of depth--well that is something I agree with--but III hasn't gone on Twitter or Facebook and whined about being criticized/given advice. His handling of Vee Sanford has been ridiculous and that is a player that could've helped throughout the season, but this year is wrapping up--so nevermind. T-Bird--I don't listen/participate in talk radio. I have info available for anyone to contact me and I don't use "fake names" or have 10 different usernames. If that is hiding-I guess I'm hiding. Follow the rules/guidelines like anyone else and guess I don't realize that I'm only fan on this site to not contact anyone personally. I use the forum for what it's for--to talk about the team--and if you don't like it--no reason to read it. Tell you what--you live in MN right-you want to PM me, ask me what my phone number/where I live etc.. is and would that make me more of a "fan" to you? I wouldn't change a thing about how I talk about the team and if they were in my presence I'd say the same thing--afterall isn't this a thread verifying that players/people connected to program READ the boards/take what fans say too personally? So guess I don't get what is "hidden" about sharing my point of view. I didn't say Wright sucks--said his play the other night and defensive effort did/do. If Chris has time to patrol what people are saying, then he's got time to watch some film and get his ass playing better defense. This isn't Kendall Marshall and his overbearing dad--this is a player about to enter his final season and still playing like he did in HS on defense--which isn't acceptible for his talent/ability. Guys want the glory of leading a team--well you get criticized as well when the team loses and it's part of the job--fair/unfair. How you deal with it--makes/breaks you. So far--we've seen what happens when things go bad with Chris and Hoyas and it is NOT what this program is about. Sulking, shaking head/hanging head, then trying to do everything 1 on 5 on other end because you are Editeded off. How's that working?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 5, 2010 0:14:14 GMT -5
RDF is your classic argumentative, attack dog sports radio guy. He's from the same mold as Colin Cowherd and Jim Rome, right down to modifying names to show his "wit" and mocking more advanced statistics. So what is the solution you gentlemen see? Jason Clark and Chris Wright play half ass defense--and it causes most of their teammates to commit fouls or rotate over and that gives up easy hoops. Now if they are tired--your best place to rest is on offensive end--but nobody on this team wants to defer there--that is where the "glory" is in basketball--so you think these guys aren't going to bust it on that end of court? Ed--they are capable of more. If you want to talk about a lack of depth--well that is something I agree with--but III hasn't gone on Twitter or Facebook and whined about being criticized/given advice. His handling of Vee Sanford has been ridiculous and that is a player that could've helped throughout the season, but this year is wrapping up--so nevermind. T-Bird--I don't listen/participate in talk radio. I have info available for anyone to contact me and I don't use "fake names" or have 10 different usernames. If that is hiding-I guess I'm hiding. Follow the rules/guidelines like anyone else and guess I don't realize that I'm only fan on this site to not contact anyone personally. I use the forum for what it's for--to talk about the team--and if you don't like it--no reason to read it. Tell you what--you live in MN right-you want to PM me, ask me what my phone number/where I live etc.. is and would that make me more of a "fan" to you? I wouldn't change a thing about how I talk about the team and if they were in my presence I'd say the same thing--afterall isn't this a thread verifying that players/people connected to program READ the boards/take what fans say too personally? So guess I don't get what is "hidden" about sharing my point of view. I didn't say Wright sucks--said his play the other night and defensive effort did/do. If Chris has time to patrol what people are saying, then he's got time to watch some film and get his ass playing better defense. This isn't Kendall Marshall and his overbearing dad--this is a player about to enter his final season and still playing like he did in HS on defense--which isn't acceptible for his talent/ability. Guys want the glory of leading a team--well you get criticized as well when the team loses and it's part of the job--fair/unfair. How you deal with it--makes/breaks you. So far--we've seen what happens when things go bad with Chris and Hoyas and it is NOT what this program is about. Sulking, shaking head/hanging head, then trying to do everything 1 on 5 on other end because you are Editeded off. How's that working? I don't care who you are. That might have gotten lost b/c of the post I quoted. My point was that you have the same style as Colin Cowherd and Jim Rome. You may not listen to them, but you've ended up just like them. The way points are made doesn't change whether they are right or wrong, but it does effect the way they are a received. And your way is the same as Jim Rome's and Colin Cowherd.
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 5, 2010 10:08:57 GMT -5
RDF - if telling someone they played like dog feces and did not give his all on defense is your way of saying that you "care" and just "want to see you get better and improve", I am awfully glad I'm not your wife or kids! Well--everyone else has been treating him like an EXPLETIVE newborn and he's done very little to change his defense. Sorry--but he played horrific basketball in the 1st Half against WVU. It's the TRUTH. I've supported Chris Wright and still do--think he's a talented guy--and he's tried to improve his offensive approach--but defensively--he's not improved at all and it kills the team. Jason Clark too. If lying to people about their performance, lying to them to "protect" them is your method of dealing with challenges you face, then I'm glad I dont' know you--nor do I want to. Certainly explains why you would defend such pathetic lack of production/effort--because Wright more then possesses the ability to be a solid defensive player. God forbid anyone for having a dissenting opinion on a messageboard and one that has actual points--unlike: "Way to Go Chris--you are the best". "Chris--I think there are two things in life that measure up to you--Joe Lunardi and Ken Pom". "Chris--you are the man. That close loss was great--and just ran out of time." "Chris--the way that opposing guard drove around you like you were standing still, that was Wright-licious". "Chris--hit me up on Facebook, need tickets to Final Four--as we're going all the way. Forget that loss to Rutgers--you had a cold and weren't 100%--and your shoes weren't right for ND game--that is on the uniforms--besides Austin was sick and you can't expect to beat a Mike Brey team when you're not at full strength"--love HoyaNation So RDF - I'm wondering if you even bothered to read my response, or instead whether you were just exploding against the fact that anyone could possibly question anything that the all-seeing RDF has said. Nowhere - and I mean NOWHERE - in my post did I "defend" Chris's first half against WVa, ot advocate "lying" to Chris or to anyone else about subpar performance. The only thing I was pointing out was the inconsistency in your original plost - your claim that all you really wanted was to see Chris "get better and improve", after you had specifically stated that he played "like dog feces" and that he had not been trying on defense. Those absolutely are not statements from someone who "really just wante to see Chris get better" - they are diatribes by an overly agitated fan. Believe me, I don't believe in coddling players or glossing over their mistakes or deficiencies - but neither do I believe in hurling insults at them just to vent my frustrations with a player or the team. And as for being "glad I don't kniow you" if your evaluation of people is based on misinterpreted message board postings, I can't help you with that. I have been an avid Hoya fan for 30+ yeras now - and I'm a heck of a nice guy! But not TOO nice. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Mar 5, 2010 10:46:41 GMT -5
I am sure the Athletic Dept would gladly consider your application as the new head coach RDF, but until that day comes, I say we leave decisions about the best mentoring style up to the guy who gets pd to do it. he builds the team by building men, we support that, whether he goes with tough love or coddling.
supporting a team has very little in common with questioning efforts. I would kill to see what you think a reasonable effort is, from your all knowing eye in the sky, fully aware of what exactly coach is asking at all times and who might be effected by illness.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Mar 5, 2010 10:47:34 GMT -5
I would say RDF is most like Pops or Bob Knight.
And they rub people the wrong way, a lot like RDF does.
They just tell like it is, how they see it and don't apologize for it, and don't sugarcoat it.
Its quite refreshing.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Mar 5, 2010 10:57:09 GMT -5
I would say RDF is most like Pops or Bob Knight. This is one of the greatest things ever written on Hoyatalk. Say this for RDF - he has a lot of time on his hands and is incredibly skilled at switching to and from ALL CAPS. He can also be entertaining.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 5, 2010 11:39:07 GMT -5
I am sure the Athletic Dept would gladly consider your application as the new head coach RDF, but until that day comes, I say we leave decisions about the best mentoring style up to the guy who gets pd to do it. he builds the team by building men, we support that, whether he goes with tough love or coddling. supporting a team has very little in common with questioning efforts. I would kill to see what you think a reasonable effort is, from your all knowing eye in the sky, fully aware of what exactly coach is asking at all times and who might be effected by illness. Ah, the infamous "why don't you coach if you are so great...." response which is about as cowardly and lame as you can get--so congrats to this gutless post which is about defending ineptitude and mediocrity by simply stating a "fan can't know anything about the game". Watching the game over years is no different then "studying/learning" anything else. Why is sports the only field that fans who hate dissenting opinions act like everyone who holds a job as a coach is a "genius"? This isn't directed at III who I think is a great coach--that takes on far too much and needs a better staff--and still needs to learn the value of size in Big East and depth overall--but he's still a young coach who has proven he's a winner. He'll figure it out. Now that you know I'm not applying him to this discussion, I will say that player development in basketball in general is horrendous right now--and it's due to the kids/players and listening to the wrong people. Would you rather have someone tell you the truth or have hangers on/"friends" tell you "Man Chris, that dude is a hater--he don't know how hard you work, you are the man...."? If you think I "hate" Chris Wright or his game--you are wrong. I just don't think he's improved to the level he's capable of and is not applying himself as he should on defensive end of the court. Again---supposedly players read the boards and others of importance who actually have control of a situation do--well guess that means I'm saying it to their face and not backing down. There is a right/wrong way to play and too many times talented people aren't pushed hard enough to maximize their game--they settle for being "good" or even "really good" and not to be great. What's wrong with pushing for more? What's wrong with challenging people? If you want to be an okay player on a decent team--then congrats. If you want to be something more--then put in the damn work, quit making/looking for excuses, and grow some thicker skin. Frazier said he's lucky he's not "my family". Well the truth is--I watch my 12 year old niece play and she's got a lot of ability but she doesn't really want to be a basketball player, so I just sit and watch and encourage her to have fun. It's all relative to what you want/want to put in--and Chris Wright obviously envisions himself as a big time player--and right now that is on one end of court. If he doesn't like it--do something about it. If he can't do anymore--then maybe his minutes need to be cut and next year don't be surprised if he's not playing as much and his role changes. You get what you put into your game and whomever is saying something doesn't matter--only matters if they are right/wrong. My comments aren't for popularity and I dont' care if people like who I am, what I say, and if it hurts feelings--it's about being honest. We've seen numerous "Team Pizza Love Ins" where the fans pat these guys on the back--well some of them have about 1 full year left--it's time to do something about it--or step aside and let someone else take on the challenge. Chris controls his fate-not some harsh words from me--so don't know why it upsets those of you who think he's doing "great". His results should be enough to shut us that think he's not doing as well as he can--right? (no pun intended)
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Mar 5, 2010 12:02:03 GMT -5
I think we all are talking about two different types of criticism.
On the one hand, we have RDF's legitimate "Chris (among others) needs to apply himself more at the defensive end." That's pretty clear for all of our players given how bad we've been defensively over the past month. And to the extent that college basketball players can't deal witht hat kind of criticism, RDF is right. It's crap. If you want to be the very best, then you have to listen to legitimate criticism and learn from it, and not just be coddled by those who want to tell you you're doing everything right.
On the other hand, we have the illegitimate criticism, that rips guys constantly and unfairly. Chris gets more of this than most. When you watch any game, you tend to watch it through the lens of the perspective (or bias) you bring to it. And that's why Chris gets ripped, whereas Jason doesn't, even though Jason has, in my opinion, struggled more than any player on our roster since that Nova game. And that kind of criticism, I can see a player getting Editeded off about legitimately. Now, RDF's point about needing to not have rabbit ears and not listen to all the BS that's out there is well taken. But that's naturally going to happen. I mean, not to get into an entirely different argument, but my understanding was that the creation of the other board was motivated in part by the inability of kids to sift out the BS from the legitimate criticism. I can see a kid who works hard but knows he has things to improve still getting Editeded when people are calling him out for personally losing an entire game where half the team played like crap. I don't think listening to valid criticism and getting Editeded about illegitimate "hating" are mutually exclusive.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Mar 5, 2010 12:18:41 GMT -5
ouch, you called me gutless while mischaracterizing my argument - I am so hurt.
You are questioning CW's effort. I say your wrong. I don't care what you "know" about basketball, life or insulting people over the internet. Keep it to yourself and don't come around here all high and mighty unless you can say EXACTLY what you are talking about. I think that is pathetic when these kids live and die for us. Until you cite chapter and verse - "at 12:15 in the WVU second half CW took a nap on D - your general and possibly well informed (though definitely poorly expressed) "sense" that our backcourt slacks on D means nothing to me. End of conversation.
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