kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 28, 2009 10:46:20 GMT -5
I love how a coach who has won two championships in the past four years and was one game away from playing for a third is an also ran. How is he not an "also-ran"? He had a chance, got his ass kicked and now doesn't like playing in a game that does not matter. Thus he creates drama where none exists, and, suddenly people are talking about him again. Unless there has been some considerable change in his medical diagnosis over the last 48-72 hours, this screams "look at me, I'm still important." Then you have a wildly different definition of "also ran" than most people do. I don't think losing one game can make a coach an also ran. And what is Meyer's history gives any indication that he craves attention or is a drama queen? If that were the case, he would have had a medical problem after the season a few years back where they lost a couple of games, including to Michigan in a bowl game. If you think he's doing this to get attention, then you have to assume that had they beaten Alabama, he would have ignored his heart problems and not stepped down. I don't believe that would be the case.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Dec 28, 2009 12:08:52 GMT -5
If only he had Tyler Hansbrough's heart, or even Tim Tebow's...
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Dec 28, 2009 12:44:36 GMT -5
You guys, save kc, are clowns. Meyer is many things, but a fabricator isn't one of them.
The story is that he's been having concerning health issues for a long time. He had/has a benign cyst on the brain which has given him severe headaches for quite a while. Stress was a key factor that made them all the worse. That alone was something he's learned to deal with. More recently -- the past 4 years -- he has had chest pains and has been to the hospital for treatment multiple times -- most recently after the SEC Championship game. Whether or not he had been quietly thinking about retiring, we don't know. No one -- not a single person -- has come out and said that Meyer had talked to him previously about "hanging it up." But you have to think that every now and then -- after he had a painful bout with the chest pains -- he might have been thinking to himself that he might better get out before something serious happens. None of us honestly know. In any case, Christmas Day he finally decided his health wasn't getting better, and was in fact getting worse. He specifically mentioned the former Wake Forest hoops coach who died suddenly. How much he'd had that in the back of his mind, none of us know either. But the bottom line was that he didn't see anything changing doing what he has been doing. So he called Foley and gave them the knews. Apparently, at that point a sort of sabatical was suggested. Urban orignally rejected it. Again, there's no way of knowing what the train of thought was, but from what all the journalists and coaches close to Urban have said, Meyer really only has one gear and that's full speed. While no one has really worded it this way, I think that the unwritten plan might be to designate some of his responsibilities to others on the staff. One of the local guys who has been doing radio for decades pointed out special teams. Meyer has been his own special teams coordinator all along. Also, while surrounding himself with a staff of dedicated coaches, he has still continued to be a tireless recruiter. The host's suggestion was that during the season, having another coach lead the special teams and during the off-season, having Meyer take more real vacations and designating more recruiting responsibilities might be a way to help keep Meyer's batteries recharged. I don't know.
Finally, the main health issue wasn't the brain, but rather the heart. As of now, the official diagnosis that has been disclosed is a minor heart muscle defect. HOw serious ... only time will tell.
Lastly, to those who suggest that this was some sort of publicity stunt or that Meyer is some sort of media hough, I think you just don't goet it.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Dec 28, 2009 13:19:03 GMT -5
Guys, hifi's right. Just ask Jevan Snead.
Also, the second press conference? Easy answer, Urbie was worried about his health, so he quit. Then he had a team meeting where Tebow circumcised him, and his heart was healed. Now he's staying. It has nothing to do with a Coach K-like desire to not have next year's Tebowless rebuilding results on his record.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Dec 28, 2009 13:24:48 GMT -5
Give the man a break. He has heart problems, decided to leave coaching and then changed his mind. Depending on how his heart is at some unnamed time, he might return to coaching or he might leave it. I fail to see what's unreasonable about that.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 28, 2009 13:26:06 GMT -5
Give the man a break. He has heart problems, decided to leave coaching and then changed his mind. Depending on how his heart is at some unnamed time, he might return to coaching or he might leave it. I fail to see what's unreasonable about that. I agree. Excellent post.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Dec 28, 2009 14:03:29 GMT -5
meyer is smarter than this
i mean he was the first guy to start bad mouthing lloyd carr to recruits for an illness that nobody else knew about yet
hes leaving it up in the air until national signing day
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Dec 28, 2009 14:22:26 GMT -5
meyer is smarter than this i mean he was the first guy to start bad mouthing lloyd carr to recruits for an illness that nobody else knew about yet hes leaving it up in the air until national signing day Paging Lane Kiffin.......
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Dec 28, 2009 14:28:44 GMT -5
meyer is smarter than this i mean he was the first guy to start bad mouthing lloyd carr to recruits for an illness that nobody else knew about yet hes leaving it up in the air until national signing day That's an interesting point. For a split instant, the greedy fan in me wondered why he couldn't at least have held out until the first Wednesday in February. Obviously, that would be the wrong thing to do. Misleading those young men, knowing that you were retiring wouldn't have been the right thing to do. But like I said before, you can say what you want about Meyer. You can say that he's a little too arrogant. You can say that he's a bit aloof. But you just simply can't say that he makes stuff up. I also don't see how anyone would consider him a media hound. For the most part, he fulfills his obligations to the media and little else. Even things like the weekly call in show have been delegated to assistant coaches all but once or twice a year. Is he a promoter of the University of Florida? You bet he is, but he isn't a self-promoter. Lastly, those who are paralleling this to the Billy Donovan decision a couple of years ago are very shallow. If you think there was anything other than honesty in the press release or the following press conference the next day, I would sure like to knwo what it is.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 28, 2009 14:44:44 GMT -5
So essentially Urban Legend had a press release and a news conference to announce he's taking a bit of time off during the off-season but expects to be back on the sideline by fall 2010.
I can't wait for the presser where he announces he'll be eating breakfast in the morning and lunch around noon.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 28, 2009 15:29:15 GMT -5
Urban Meyer is a good coach, not a great coach who prefers the path of least resistance. And thats why he is just a good coach and not a great one.
The SEC championship game where they got spanked by Alabama this year was a microcosm and window into what and who Urban Meyer is:
He is a mentally fragile individual.
He turned down the 1st Notre Dame job offer because he would have to do real work there and actually coach, instead of walking into already-made National title contender in Florida. And sure enough, he won a National title his 2nd year.
Now he we are in year 5 of Urban Meyer at Florida and he is already panicking about his future. the 2009 SEC championship game was a window into Urban's future at Florida: He will always have enough talent to be good, but when the talent is equal with the opposing team with a good coach, he'll get spanked like he did against Bama. And just think, he had Tebow, STrong,and Spikes and Haden on this team. All those guys are gone next year. And the SEC is getting stronger. No more QB draws and runs by Tebow to save the non-effective spread offense in the SEC. Brantley will be out on a stretcher by the Tenn game next year trying to run the same scheme. So, that means they will have to totally revamp the offense too.
Thats a lot of work that lies ahead. Too much work for a guy who is stressed out as Meyer over winning. He hasn't lost or failed big-time as a head coach at any point of his career. He won't be able to take it. He is 12-1 this year and he is too stressed out. What happens when he goes 9-3 or 8-4 next year, if he is already having health problems?
Look at Pete Carroll? Southern Cal got spanked a lot this year. It happens. Oklahoma was down this year. Texas will probably be that way next year. It goes in cycles. You aren't going to be on top forever, and Urban got spoiled coaching at Florida his 1st 5 years there.
I'd be surprised if he ever is on the sideline for Florida as a head coach again.
And another thing: Urban Meyer did not make Florida Football. Steve Spurrier did. When Spurrier left, Ron Zook still recruited well, although he sucked as a coach by Florida's Standard's. And Meyer won with Zook's talent in the beginning. Make no mistake, Florida does not need Meyer. But Meyer wants to feel that way. Really, what is the difference between Meyer at Florida and Dennis Erickson when he was at Miami winning titles? Florida football recruits itself. It will win more championships without Meyer. This stronghold he is putting on Florida is unnecessary.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 28, 2009 15:34:11 GMT -5
Gentlemen, we have a winner.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 28, 2009 16:15:52 GMT -5
Urban Meyer is a good coach, not a great coach who prefers the path of least resistance. And thats why he is just a good coach and not a great one. The SEC championship game where they got spanked by Alabama this year was a microcosm and window into what and who Urban Meyer is: He is a mentally fragile individual. He turned down the 1st Notre Dame job offer because he would have to do real work there and actually coach, instead of walking into already-made National title contender in Florida. And sure enough, he won a National title his 2nd year. Now he we are in year 5 of Urban Meyer at Florida and he is already panicking about his future. the 2009 SEC championship game was a window into Urban's future at Florida: He will always have enough talent to be good, but when the talent is equal with the opposing team with a good coach, he'll get spanked like he did against Bama. And just think, he had Tebow, STrong,and Spikes and Haden on this team. All those guys are gone next year. And the SEC is getting stronger. No more QB draws and runs by Tebow to save the non-effective spread offense in the SEC. Brantley will be out on a stretcher by the Tenn game next year trying to run the same scheme. So, that means they will have to totally revamp the offense too. Thats a lot of work that lies ahead. Too much work for a guy who is stressed out as Meyer over winning. He hasn't lost or failed big-time as a head coach at any point of his career. He won't be able to take it. He is 12-1 this year and he is too stressed out. What happens when he goes 9-3 or 8-4 next year, if he is already having health problems? Look at Pete Carroll? Southern Cal got spanked a lot this year. It happens. Oklahoma was down this year. Texas will probably be that way next year. It goes in cycles. You aren't going to be on top forever, and Urban got spoiled coaching at Florida his 1st 5 years there. I'd be surprised if he ever is on the sideline for Florida as a head coach again. And another thing: Urban Meyer did not make Florida Football. Steve Spurrier did. When Spurrier left, Ron Zook still recruited well, although he sucked as a coach by Florida's Standard's. And Meyer won with Zook's talent in the beginning. Make no mistake, Florida does not need Meyer. But Meyer wants to feel that way. Really, what is the difference between Meyer at Florida and Dennis Erickson when he was at Miami winning titles? Florida football recruits itself. It will win more championships without Meyer. This stronghold he is putting on Florida is unnecessary. Really, you're blaming a guy for taking the Florida job instead of the Notre Dame job? 99 out of a 100 coaches would make that choice. Funny how he walked into a "ready made national contender" when Zook had gone 8-5, 8-5 and 7-4 the years before. Also, if Meyer's not that good of a coach, how does the take an above average team and win the national championship with them? You make no sense. I love how you say he's mentally fragile and he can't handle going 8-4 or 9-3. What about 2005 or 2007? The guy's not stressed out because he's worried about his record. He's stressed because he's the coach of a major D-1 football school and he has a heart problem. What, are you going to tell me Dick Vermeil didn't retire because of stress, but because he was worried about dealing with Lawrence Taylor coming into the division? "He will always have enough talent to be good, but when the talent is equal with the opposing team with a good coach, he'll get spanked like he did against Bama." So what about last year when he beat Bama? Or when he beat Oklahoma? Or when he beat Ohio State? I guess, by that standard, Pete Carroll is a horrible coach because he has the most talent in the country and lost 4 (?) games this year. "And another thing: Urban Meyer did not make Florida Football." Did anyone claim this? Has Meyer claimed this? What a strawman. Again, if "Florida recruits itself," how did Zook not win any championships? How did Spurrier only win one championship? Obviously you have some hatred for the guy, and it shows. I'm no particular Florida fan, but I started following Meyer when we moved to Utah a few years back and I admire the job he's done at several stops.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Dec 28, 2009 16:45:37 GMT -5
The illogical hatred is somewhat surprising. Sure, everyone expects to be the target of special criticism when you are on top. Again, no one really has much of a problem with Vanderbilt for example. That's because they never do squat. Florida, on the other hand, had rapidly escalated to among the college football elite. We won a National Championship with a grouping of players, many of which were recruited by Zook and Zaunbrecher as well as Meyer's first full class, which was also absolutely loaded with talent. Then after losing the entire defense, and with very little depth to the coaching change two years back, we struggled to a 9-4 season. Then it's back to another one loss National Championship team, followed by a perfect regular season, setting up a monster 1-2 showdown against another undefeated team. We lose that game and all of a sudden some are saying that Meyer can't coach and is leaving before everyone finds out? I'm sorry but the way must be an idiot.[/i] When something happens once, it could have been a fluke. But when you have Meyer's track record, it shows a trend or more. Meyer won and completely turned around Bowling Green. Meyer then took over at lowly Utah and did a remarkable job, going 22-2 in 2 seasons. Finally he comes to a Florida team that had lost 15 games in the previous 3 years and leads them to a 56-11 record over the next 5 years, including 3 SEC east titles, 2 SEC and 2 National titles as well. But you try to dismiss health issues as some kind of cowardly character flatw. I don't know what your problem with Meyer really is, but I odn't think its that you think he's not a good coach.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 28, 2009 17:09:43 GMT -5
His easy path to success has closed,and he is scared. Thats why he is stressed. Thats why it has exacerbated his health problems. That is why he initially quit. He did a 180 and came back only because of his pride.
I guarantee if Florida won that SEC title game and went on to beat Texas....issues about family and his health would never have come up.
Only after he got his butt kicked thoroughly by Bama, then these issues came up. He is creating an out for himself if things don't go well the next couple of years in Gainsville. And they aren't going to be the same without Tebow. Look at the way Donovan struggled in basketball after repeating. And SEC in basketball isn't on the level of SEC in football.
He is too high-strung for his own good and that is affecting his health. Some folks are like that. And thats not going to change for him. He should just step down for his own sake and his family he claims to comes first.
Problem is, he isn't going to do that because of his ego. Meyer for all of his success, has been 2nd-fiddle with the Gators. Spurrier's legend initially overshadowed him. Then Tebow's legend and the Florida program himself overshadowed him. For the 1st time in his career there at that press conference yesterday, Meyer was the star. He needs Florida, not the other way around. And now he has flipped the script and has the program in limbo and in the palm of his hands.
Meyer is not bigger than the Florida program. But after this new arrangement, he has become that...and its to a detriment to the Gator program. If it had any chance of not going down the tubes like MIami and FSU have of recent memory, those chances are now slimmer with this indefinite leave of absence of his.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 28, 2009 17:32:37 GMT -5
Do you really think big time coaches like Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll, and Bob Stoops are scared about going 8-4 next year? Same thing with Tom Izzo, Roy Williams or Mike Krywhatever?
Heck, think about the biggest prima donna, drama queen coaches out there: Nick Saban, John Calipari, Jim Calhoun, etc. They may crave the spotlight and want a lot of attention. But I doubt any of them are scared about have a sub-par season. That is what makes them great coaches.
I think you have valid points about the fact he may be too high-strung for his own good. That's what makes him a great coach and what make this health issue so important to deal with. I also agree that it will be harder for Florida to avoid a drop-off like FSU and Miami have experienced without Meyer at the helm.
I simply disagree that he's doing this to get attention, or because of ego, or because he's afraid of losing 4 games next year.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 28, 2009 18:19:43 GMT -5
Let's talk about some of the coaches you mentioned, let's keep it football...Carroll and Saban.
Carroll, actually is a balanced guy. He enjoys life. He has fun. If he has health problems, it won't be exacerbated by stress. He is a care-free guy.
Saban is as driven (if not more) and is type A (if not more) than Meyer. At the same time, he does have his moments where he can enjoy a little fun and be funny. He is built for the type of personality that he has.
Meyer does not. He rarely smiles. He rarely seems happy. I think he is a miserable guy who is a perfectionist to a fault. Thats why he is depressed with a 12-1 record this year. Meyer, unfortunately, is being undone by his weaknesses. Who he is will eventually kill him. Unless he changes. But that high-strung personality is what has gotten him this successful.
You can win and still have a life at a big time program. Spurrier did. Carroll does. But some people in life don't know how to do that. Meyer appears that he does not. And at the first sign of everything not going his way, his 1st thought was to flee. That is a red flag from a competitive standpoint too.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 28, 2009 18:40:00 GMT -5
You're reading too much into this. It's obvious, the stress of the impeding recruiting and lack of institutional control violations finally got to him. He's getting out of there before the NCAA arrives.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Dec 28, 2009 18:46:05 GMT -5
I actually kind of liked Wilbon's take on it today
(though shame on Willybuns and TK for how craven they are becoming in challenging anyone anymore)
Basically, Meyer is probably out and probably not going to coach next season, but the school panicked when he made his announcement on Saturday and they either asked him or they decided together that he should modify his status so they can hold onto more recruits.
It's cynical, it's jaded, it's repugnant.........and, if I had to bet money, I believe it's almost certainly true.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 28, 2009 18:53:00 GMT -5
The illogical hatred is somewhat surprising. I'm pretty sure that most people on this board hate Florida, and by extension, Urban Meyer, because of you. And this is not a new thing, but then again, no one ever accused you of being observant or intelligent, so I'm not surprised that you missed it. Also, have to say that if Meyer does come back, he's pretty much the worst father ever (non-murderer/abuser division). His daughter gets all excited about having her daddy back and he responds by turning around and going back to coaching.
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