SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 14, 2009 16:30:19 GMT -5
All-Star pitcher Roy Halladay, who has been a regular subject of trade talk since before last July's deadline, is headed to the Philadelphia Phillies, SI.com is reporting.
According to the report, Phillies pitcher Cliff Lee is likely headed to the Seattle Mariners as part of a three-team trade. How does that help Phillie if they pick up Halladay -- a GREAT addition -- but they lose Cliff Lee? I don't get it. There must be more details coming, but I don't think they will persuade me this deal will help Phillie try to win another WS. sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4742072 |
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 14, 2009 16:41:42 GMT -5
They can sign Halladay to an extension. No way Cliff Lee is signing long term. He wants to test the open market and that will likely put him out of the price range the Phillies are willing to spend. Hence, they want to trade for a #1 starter who they can lock down at a reasonable price for the long term. Also, that park will extend Doc's career considerably. Start filling out your ballots now, because I think Doc's ready for a record year.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 14, 2009 18:34:36 GMT -5
They can sign Halladay to an extension. No way Cliff Lee is signing long term. He wants to test the open market and that will likely put him out of the price range the Phillies are willing to spend. Hence, they want to trade for a #1 starter who they can lock down at a reasonable price for the long term. Also, that park will extend Doc's career considerably. Start filling out your ballots now, because I think Doc's ready for a record year. Agreed. Halladay apparently will sign through 2013. Lee might as well start renting an apartment in New York. He's a Yankee after this year in Seattle. Lee was asking for $23MM reportedly and I'm sure at least 5 or 6 years. The Phils window isn't big enough even if they thought he was worth that. Halladay's a better pitcher with a shorter deal. And you basically got the deal you wanted all along. I think this is a smart move and next up I have hunch will be moving Victorino. |
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Dec 14, 2009 20:48:21 GMT -5
Right now I am just pleased to know that John Lackey is with the Red Sox, Roy Halladay is in the National League, and neither of them is with the Yankees or the Angels. The Sox are making some interesting moves- they aren't done yet, but it looks like they won't be signing Bay or Holliday, so they may be focusing on pitching and defense as they turn to Mike Cameron and likely Adrian Beltre. Then again, they might turn around and swing a big trade for Adrian Gonzalez- sucks San Diego had to hire a guy who already knows how much Theo values his prospects, really drives up the asking price.
As for Cliff Lee, if the Yankees want to give him CC money next winter, more power to 'em. No one else is going to be able to match that kind of spending power, and the Sox hands will be full just holding onto Beckett at that point. Lee has been phenomenal for two years now, so I don't want to call him fluky, but that year he went back to AAA just sticks in my craw, so to speak. Still, Seattle might be an interesting club next year with King Felix and Cliffy at the top of the rotation, and some excellent defense behind them.
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Dec 14, 2009 23:13:55 GMT -5
Still, Seattle might be an interesting club next year with King Felix and Cliffy at the top of the rotation, and some excellent defense behind them. Except that they signed Junior. To play NEXT season. Still trying to wrap my head around that one. |
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Post by washingtonhoya on Dec 14, 2009 23:20:29 GMT -5
Still, Seattle might be an interesting club next year with King Felix and Cliffy at the top of the rotation, and some excellent defense behind them. Except that they signed Junior. To play NEXT season. Still trying to wrap my head around that one. Cheap contract, heavy on attendance incentives, will never see the field, will probably be primarily DH who occasionally gets trotted out there to hit dingers while on Farewell Tour, Year 2. Intangibles really don't mean anything, but...he allegedly brings them in spades. Ichiro's reportedly happier than he's ever been in Seattle (especially after ugliness in 2008). If Griffey being around makes the clubhouse a jovial enough place with his tickling and other eccentricities such that Felix decides to sign an extension, then whatever. It's a waste of a roster spot, but doesn't tie up too much payroll and all things considered, does a tiny fraction of the damage that Carlos Silva does by being paid $25.5M over the next two years to be fat and useless. Excited by the prospect of Cliff Lee but it all really comes down to what prospects the M's send to Toronto. Everything's absurdly unofficial now; so long as the haul isn't too bad then yay one year of Cliff Lee+2 draft picks (assuming he's Type A after 2010). |
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 15, 2009 10:44:23 GMT -5
Right now I am just pleased to know that John Lackey is with the Red Sox, Roy Halladay is in the National League, and neither of them is with the Yankees or the Angels. The Sox are making some interesting moves- they aren't done yet, but it looks like they won't be signing Bay or Holliday, so they may be focusing on pitching and defense as they turn to Mike Cameron and likely Adrian Beltre. Then again, they might turn around and swing a big trade for Adrian Gonzalez- sucks San Diego had to hire a guy who already knows how much Theo values his prospects, really drives up the asking price. As for Cliff Lee, if the Yankees want to give him CC money next winter, more power to 'em. No one else is going to be able to match that kind of spending power, and the Sox hands will be full just holding onto Beckett at that point. Lee has been phenomenal for two years now, so I don't want to call him fluky, but that year he went back to AAA just sticks in my craw, so to speak. Still, Seattle might be an interesting club next year with King Felix and Cliffy at the top of the rotation, and some excellent defense behind them. I agree with the assessment. Also I think the Sox are saving up to land King Felix. |
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 15, 2009 14:17:12 GMT -5
Right now I am just pleased to know that John Lackey is with the Red Sox, Roy Halladay is in the National League, and neither of them is with the Yankees or the Angels. The Sox are making some interesting moves- they aren't done yet, but it looks like they won't be signing Bay or Holliday, so they may be focusing on pitching and defense as they turn to Mike Cameron and likely Adrian Beltre. Then again, they might turn around and swing a big trade for Adrian Gonzalez- sucks San Diego had to hire a guy who already knows how much Theo values his prospects, really drives up the asking price. As for Cliff Lee, if the Yankees want to give him CC money next winter, more power to 'em. No one else is going to be able to match that kind of spending power, and the Sox hands will be full just holding onto Beckett at that point. Lee has been phenomenal for two years now, so I don't want to call him fluky, but that year he went back to AAA just sticks in my craw, so to speak. Still, Seattle might be an interesting club next year with King Felix and Cliffy at the top of the rotation, and some excellent defense behind them. I agree with the assessment. Also I think the Sox are saving up to land King Felix. theo will sell his mother to sign joe mauer. i think that is priority #1 next year. |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 15, 2009 14:21:22 GMT -5
I agree with the assessment. Also I think the Sox are saving up to land King Felix. theo will sell his mother to sign joe mauer. i think that is priority #1 next year. Cambridge has it right. Theo's first priority is going to be King Felix b/c the Twins are going to sign Mauer to an extension this winter. And you can say whatever you want, and offer me all kinds of proof, including having Joe Mauer come to my apartment in Yankees / Red Sox gear and tell me himself that he's not going to stay in Minnesota, but for the sake of my own sanity, I'm not going to believe you, so you can save the pixels. |
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Post by hoyawatcher on Dec 15, 2009 14:23:46 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me what Seattle gets out of this deal. One year of rent-a-Lee as a pitcher for 3 of their top prospects? I can't construct a rational argument that says they get more than one year for him and I didn't think they were that close to competing with the Angeles?
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 15, 2009 14:32:43 GMT -5
Seattle adds Lee and Figgins, Angels lose Figgins, Lackey and Guerrero and sign Matsui, I think the Angels and Mariners are a lot closer than you might think.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 15, 2009 14:32:59 GMT -5
With Figgins, probably Bay, Felix and Lee they are definitely very competitive with the Angels, considering what the Angels have lost this offseason. I think the Mariners have a legitimate shot at the division. I also applaud that they realize they have a window closing on some of the talent in their lineup (Felix for example) and they are making a push now to capitalize. Also, their prospects weren't particularly exciting anyways...
EDIT - What rooter said. Bingo.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 15, 2009 14:34:29 GMT -5
With Figgins, probably Bay, Felix and Lee they are definitely very competitive with the Angels, considering what the Angels have lost this offseason. I think the Mariners have a legitimate shot at the division. I also applaud that they realize they have a window closing on some of the talent in their lineup (Felix for example) and they are making a push now to capitalize. Also, their prospects weren't particularly exciting anyways... Agreed. Their exciting prospects are already in Baltimore |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 15, 2009 15:09:37 GMT -5
I actually think that Mauer does sign in Minny. But perhaps I'm delusional as well.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Dec 15, 2009 15:35:43 GMT -5
I actually think that Mauer does sign in Minny. But perhaps I'm delusional as well. While I would dearly love to be able to watch Joe Mauer every day in Boston, I also believe he remains a Twin. It would just be too devastating to the Twin Cities, and I don't want that to happen. |
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Post by washingtonhoya on Dec 15, 2009 17:35:35 GMT -5
Cambridge has it right. Theo's first priority is going to be King Felix b/c the Twins are going to sign Mauer to an extension this winter. And you can say whatever you want, and offer me all kinds of proof, including having Joe Mauer come to my apartment in Yankees / Red Sox gear and tell me himself that he's not going to stay in Minnesota, but for the sake of my own sanity, I'm not going to believe you, so you can save the pixels. Putting aside my instinct to tell you to both sod off, I think there is decent potential for a Felix extension to be completed this offseason that keeps him in Seattle for a while. I don't anticipate the Mariners signing Lee to a long extension, plus with Silva coming off the books after 2011 there will be payroll free to sign Felix to a 4+ year extension, assuming Seattle can work out terms with his agent. Felix might be the most valuable non-Longoria/Mauer asset in baseball while he's still cheap, and trading for Lee doesn't do anything to dispel me from thinking that the Mariners have a Felix extension on top of their priority list. Zduriencik has made huge strides within the span of a year to make the team more competitive (especially defensively) so given this offseason's moves it's not fait accompli try to prevent Felix from bolting for a franchise with a better chance at the playoffs. Felix has the chance to play in a pitcher's park in front of an elite defense in a city that has been violently in love with him since 2005. It's an ideal situation assuming the organization commits to the money/years he deserves. Can someone explain to me what Seattle gets out of this deal. One year of rent-a-Lee as a pitcher for 3 of their top prospects? I can't construct a rational argument that says they get more than one year for him and I didn't think they were that close to competing with the Angeles? One year of rent-a-Lee when what has been the strongest team in the division loses two key pieces (including one who moved up north), plus two high draft picks when Lee leaves as a Type A at the end of the year. The financial advantage to Seattle is laid out here[/url] far better than I could describe. The other key is that while the prospects are highly ranked, Aumont, for one, isn't as valuable to Seattle as he would be to an organization that views him as a starter. Aumont got the Brandon Morrow treatment of being shifted between a starter and a reliever such that his development might be slightly limited, but he's still a powerful arm. Gillies is a decent prospect but still pretty far from the majors and not as valuable to the organization as #2 draft pick Dustin Ackley. Ramirez, similarly, is a top prospect but still far enough away from the majors that the risk-reward profile makes him not a substantial loss. More important than what the Mariners do give up in this deal is what they hold onto: Michael Saunders (ML-ready OF who is under club control for six more years), Good/Bad Brandon Morrow, Jose Lopez (cheap ~league average 2B), and Carlos Triunfel (arguably the top position player prospect in the system). All could be moved in separate deals, but they might be Seattle's most valuable trade chips and none of them are included. With Figgins, probably Bay, Felix and Lee they are definitely very competitive with the Angels, considering what the Angels have lost this offseason. I think the Mariners have a legitimate shot at the division. I also applaud that they realize they have a window closing on some of the talent in their lineup (Felix for example) and they are making a push now to capitalize. Also, their prospects weren't particularly exciting anyways... Agreed. Their exciting prospects are already in Baltimore Thanks, Bill Bavasi. Fortunately this is not the Bedard deal redux, as Lee is a better pitcher, more durable, and the prospects leaving the farm system do not include a Jones-caliber player nor a George Sherrill major league ready arm. |
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njcoach
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Post by njcoach on Dec 18, 2009 9:03:59 GMT -5
From ESPN: Lee says "I thought I would be spending the rest of my career there (Philadelphia) ..." Says he thought they were working on an extension. Philly fans have been bashing this on talk radio shows for two days; wait till they hear this. sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4753045 |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 30, 2009 0:32:30 GMT -5
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 30, 2009 1:58:19 GMT -5
And the Mets still suck. Bay is a decent player. I'm not surprised he was asking for more money and more years with the Mets. Probably the only team that would consider it. Sad that he's essentially gonna finish out his career losing consistently. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 30, 2009 2:00:22 GMT -5
Mauer will stay home. Yankees will pick up Crawford and there's no way the Sox get Felix.
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