SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 8, 2009 15:11:35 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Dec 8, 2009 15:37:49 GMT -5
This is such a travesty, it's nauseating. |
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Cambridge
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Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 10, 2009 0:20:02 GMT -5
My brother-in-law is a SEAL currently stationed abroad. This is a SEAL's worst nightmare. They do more for us than you'll ever know.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Dec 10, 2009 8:42:27 GMT -5
I'm happy to play the contrarian on this. Only one of the three is actually charged with assaulting the detainee. The others are charged with dereliction of duty (allowing a prisoner in their custody to be beaten) and making false official statements afterward to cover it up. The latter is a concern. Military personnel are expected to follow orders and to cooperate with official investigations.
As the quoted official pointed out, if the SEALs had chosen to pound the everliving crap out of the guy WHILE they were capturing him, there'd likely have been no consequences. No, instead, McCabe waits until the guy's safely back in a holding cell before being man enough to punch him.
On the totally non-substantive side though, this situation is great for making the administration look absolutely indefensible, because there's no way any rational person should take the terrorist's side, unless of course they're secret Muslims who aren't even natural born citizens.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 10, 2009 9:21:08 GMT -5
Rosslynhoya,
Here is what I perceive is going on. The SEALS were offered non-judicial punishment under the UCMJ (Article 15). They turned it down and demanded a court-martial, which is their right. The convening authority gets Editeded (the Army Major General). Once again it is not the crime, it's the coverup. I speculate that if the allegation is true (only one punch to the gut or a fat lip as reported elswhere) as reported by the Master-at-Arms and the SEALS had come clean, this would have ended it w/o even a proposed NJP but perhaps in an imposition of a nonpunitive measure under the Manual for Courts-Martial of extra military instruction (EMI). (Other reporting indicates that Abed had been turned over to Iraqi authorities when he made his abuse complaint, whereupon he was returned to the U.S. military. Thus, I would suggest the facts aren't entirely clear.)
The SEALS dug their heels in and have demanded their right to a special court-martial. I will go out on a limb and suggest that there's a distinct possibility of acquittal, and even if convicted, no bad conduct discharge. I will also admit my bias-- I was a Navy JAG defense lawyer for a number of years and have represented SEALS both while on active duty and as a civilian lawyer.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 10, 2009 15:11:02 GMT -5
I love this board. Oddly, my brother-in-law is an ex-SEAL (I say oddly, simply because I know Bridge) and I haven't gotten a chance to discuss this at all... but I love the level of information I can get on this board.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 10, 2009 15:37:43 GMT -5
Thank you, SSHoya, for dropping the knowledge on us. That certainly adds some nuance to the story.
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hoyaalf
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Post by hoyaalf on Dec 17, 2009 19:55:14 GMT -5
Contrarians are on firm ground here.
Long ago yours truly was a butter bar in a nominally special ops unit.
Our junior officer's code went something like: no witnesses; no reports; no nothing.
These guys smacked a prisoner with a witness; half-bright.
But here is the important point: one lost control and the other two dummied up.
I'll bet you a dollar to a dime that the platoon leader was Editeded if he had been lied to by these guys.
Of all the things you CANNOT do in these situations is lie to each other.
It eats away at the trust which makes it work.
If you don't believe that your brother will cover your ass, one of you is in the wrong unit.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 10, 2010 17:20:54 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 11, 2010 20:21:43 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 22, 2010 10:47:19 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Apr 22, 2010 14:08:43 GMT -5
Justice served for at least one.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 22, 2010 14:23:45 GMT -5
And I want to see the Navy prosecutors re-evaluate the remaining cases and do the right thing -- dismiss the charges with prejudice.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Apr 23, 2010 15:16:02 GMT -5
And I want to see the Navy prosecutors re-evaluate the remaining cases and do the right thing -- dismiss the charges with prejudice. Well, they didn't do that, but the second SEAL charged, Keefe, was found not guilty. Though I think the charges are different in the third court martial, I'd be shocked is the outcome was any different. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 6, 2010 18:49:30 GMT -5
Third seal, McCabe, found not guilty. www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36880The more that came out over the course of these cases, the more apparent it became that the case against the SEALs -- or at least the assault charge -- was very flimsy and probably these charges never should have been brought. A shame that they had to go through it, but justice certainly seems to have prevailed. |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 7, 2010 11:13:20 GMT -5
Well, I guess the system worked, to the extent the SEALS demand for a special court-martial led to the acquittals. They (and their lawyers) must have had a good sense of how the members of the court-martial would view the allegations and the context in which they allegedly occurred.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 7, 2010 13:14:36 GMT -5
You can say the system worked but the three SEALS may not like how the system worked and what it meant and will mean to their lives.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 7, 2010 14:19:45 GMT -5
I agree with other posters who have opined that these guys should have never been charged in the first place, and my previous comments suggesting that an acquittal was in the offing. Given the strictures of the military justice system, the system did work, with all its imperfections. Within the SEAL community, I tend to think these guys will do just fine, and may be viewed somewhat as heroes with the Special Warfare community.
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