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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 4, 2009 14:46:07 GMT -5
Diplomatic overtures to North Korea have paid serious dividends, with today's release of the two US journalists (Source: tinyurl.com/l3lxck). May they be reunited with their friends and families quickly and not hop that border again. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Aug 4, 2009 16:17:09 GMT -5
Well, if they ever hopped the border in the first place (I don't trust North Korea farther than I can throw them. Which isn't far, as it is a sizeable landmass). Kudos to fmr. President Clinton. Surely this will dismay John Bolton, who would have preferred a suicide nuclear attack by Clinton. Also, "NoKo" sounds weird, like it's a neighborhood on the Upper West Side. |
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Aug 4, 2009 16:39:09 GMT -5
Well, if they ever hopped the border in the first place (I don't trust North Korea farther than I can throw them. Which isn't far, as it is a sizeable landmass). Kudos to fmr. President Clinton. Surely this will dismay John Bolton, who would have preferred a suicide nuclear attack by Clinton. Also, "NoKo" sounds weird, like it's a neighborhood on the Upper West Side. As much as I love Koreatown, there are some parts my friends and I refer to as NorthKoreatown...well, because its sketchy and not in a hip way. From now on, we're calling it NoKo. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 4, 2009 18:29:27 GMT -5
Wonder what we gave up to get their release.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 4, 2009 18:31:17 GMT -5
Wonder what we gave up to get their release. Our freedom, no doubt. |
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 4, 2009 18:32:04 GMT -5
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Aug 4, 2009 18:44:20 GMT -5
Wonder what we gave up to get their release. Kim Jong-Il got a former president of the United States to give him a photo-op for his domestic audience. You're right, it's too high a price. We should have just nuked them and hoped the journalists survived. |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 4, 2009 19:13:44 GMT -5
VBS got it wrong, BTW - North Korea's ruler remains - officially, at least - Kim Il Sung. Really. The dead guy.
Ed's right - we gave up something. It probably wasn't much, but it was something.
After some discussion with friends, North Korea is probably the most realist nation on earth. They've conducted a variety of agreements with the US and others, and keep on developing nukes. And Kim Jong Il keeps on getting off scot free.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 4, 2009 19:49:25 GMT -5
Also, "NoKo" sounds weird, like it's a neighborhood on the Upper West Side. I believe the standard slang abbreviation these days is "Norks," though that may refer to people and not the place. It sort of takes away the sinister-ness in favor of Saturday morning cartoon-ness. (On the other hand, there is a certain cute quality to "NoKo" as well. ) ;D Anyway, kudos to Slick Willy. Yes, it's a shame that the cockroach will be using this for propaganda purposes (even if only internally), but in this instance, I'd say big whup. |
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 4, 2009 20:51:01 GMT -5
VBS got it wrong, BTW - North Korea's ruler remains - officially, at least - Kim Il Sung. Really. The dead guy. I think they say that in the second or third episode. I definitely remember hearing it and laughing. |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 4, 2009 21:39:03 GMT -5
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Aug 4, 2009 22:53:38 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 5, 2009 8:28:56 GMT -5
Wonder what we gave up to get their release. Our freedom, no doubt. Nice to see you ridicule a serious question. If my aged memory serves me right, in the past both the Bush and the Clinton administrations reached agreements with North Korea in which the U.S. provided money in exchange for a cessation of North Korea's nuclear bomb program. The North Koreans, of course, accepted the money and reneged on their bomb pledge. My question is whether the current U.S. administration made a similar (or other) agreement in exchange for the release of these journalists. My guess is we made some sort of agreement over and above a photo op with the former president. I have no proof but the past suggests North Korea does not give up something for nothing. Additionally, my second guess is that, whatever arrangements were made for the release of the journalists, the former president did not arrange it. Rather, it was arranged by lower level state department personnel, the former president only seeming to have "pulled it off". We will learn of what actually happened over time, if ever. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 5, 2009 9:19:52 GMT -5
Nice to see you ridicule a serious question. If my aged memory serves me right, in the past both the Bush and the Clinton administrations reached agreements with North Korea in which the U.S. provided money in exchange for a cessation of North Korea's nuclear bomb program. The North Koreans, of course, accepted the money and reneged on their bomb pledge. It wasn't a question, it was an accusation. If you're seriously comparing 2 captive journalists with a nuclear bomb program as bargaining chips, I do not know what to say. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 5, 2009 9:46:41 GMT -5
"It's hard to believe that North Korea released the journalists just on humanitarian grounds. It probably had something to do with a package deal with the United States, to resolve the issues of denuclearization and normalization of ties," said Tadashi Kimiya, an associate professor at the University of Tokyo."
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 5, 2009 10:00:06 GMT -5
Nice to see you ridicule a serious question. If my aged memory serves me right, in the past both the Bush and the Clinton administrations reached agreements with North Korea in which the U.S. provided money in exchange for a cessation of North Korea's nuclear bomb program. The North Koreans, of course, accepted the money and reneged on their bomb pledge. It wasn't a question, it was an accusation. If you're seriously comparing 2 captive journalists with a nuclear bomb program as bargaining chips, I do not know what to say. Are you saying the North Korean regime wouldn't tie them together? |
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Aug 5, 2009 10:01:56 GMT -5
I think Ed's right in the broader sense - the US quietly gave North Korea something in return for the journalists. He's also probably right that the whole thing was resolved by lower level State Department officials before Clinton ever got on the plane.
My guess is that Clinton's visit was probably the biggest bone we threw them. I also wouldn't be surprised if North Korea's initial request was to have Obama or Hillary visit, and Bill was chosen as a compromise. But I doubt we'll ever know for sure.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 5, 2009 10:05:08 GMT -5
My guess is that Clinton's visit was probably the biggest bone we threw them. I also wouldn't be surprised if North Korea's initial request was to have Obama or Hillary visit, and Bill was chosen as a compromise. But I doubt we'll ever know for sure. Initial news reports indicate that the "NoKo" regime asked for former President Clinton by name. Whether that is before or after we likely took Obama and Hillary off the table is anyone's guess. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 5, 2009 10:17:04 GMT -5
Are you saying the North Korean regime wouldn't tie them together? I'm saying that one gives you two cartons of cigarettes, and the other gives you the right to bring cigarettes into your country. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2009 10:20:00 GMT -5
Pretty much EVERYTHING in the world is actually done by lower-level staff, easyed.
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