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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 30, 2009 21:55:01 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 30, 2009 22:37:51 GMT -5
Today's teachable moment?
Nobody puts Joe Biden in a corner.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 30, 2009 23:38:22 GMT -5
From the comment section on that link: "I know this officer very well. He needs no "cluing in" on race relations. He grew up in public housing surrounded by the racial diversity Cambridge is known for, including many African-Americans, Jamaican-Americans, Haitian-Americans, Italian-Americans, and Irish-Americans. He was given the name at a young age by folks in the neighborhood because his hair was so light as a kid. He has worked his entire career, from the time he was a youth center counselor to his appointment to the Cambridge Police, to teach young people the value of friendships that transcend race and to bring the city's neighborhoods together. I have watched Whitey many time diffuse delicate and charged situations with a sincerity, good humor, and diplomacy that few people possess. Perhaps above all, he is an outstanding and dedicated father who works very hard to support his family and his community. " |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 31, 2009 14:13:24 GMT -5
From the comment section on that link: "I know this officer very well. He needs no "cluing in" on race relations. He grew up in public housing surrounded by the racial diversity Cambridge is known for, including many African-Americans, Jamaican-Americans, Haitian-Americans, Italian-Americans, and Irish-Americans. He was given the name at a young age by folks in the neighborhood because his hair was so light as a kid. He has worked his entire career, from the time he was a youth center counselor to his appointment to the Cambridge Police, to teach young people the value of friendships that transcend race and to bring the city's neighborhoods together. I have watched Whitey many time diffuse delicate and charged situations with a sincerity, good humor, and diplomacy that few people possess. Perhaps above all, he is an outstanding and dedicated father who works very hard to support his family and his community. " That may well be, but it probably does not show good judgment to put such a racially-tinged term on one's license plate. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 31, 2009 14:32:14 GMT -5
From the comment section on that link: "I know this officer very well. He needs no "cluing in" on race relations. He grew up in public housing surrounded by the racial diversity Cambridge is known for, including many African-Americans, Jamaican-Americans, Haitian-Americans, Italian-Americans, and Irish-Americans. He was given the name at a young age by folks in the neighborhood because his hair was so light as a kid. He has worked his entire career, from the time he was a youth center counselor to his appointment to the Cambridge Police, to teach young people the value of friendships that transcend race and to bring the city's neighborhoods together. I have watched Whitey many time diffuse delicate and charged situations with a sincerity, good humor, and diplomacy that few people possess. Perhaps above all, he is an outstanding and dedicated father who works very hard to support his family and his community. " That may well be, but it probably does not show good judgment to put such a racially-tinged term on one's license plate. So he's supposed to change his license plate, which he's had for however long, which has his longtime nickname on it, just to appease a bunch of people who have no perspective? |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 31, 2009 14:54:59 GMT -5
I had a friend in college who's last name was White. Lots of people called him "Whitey." No big deal.
Thre was, until recently, a Whitey's restaurant here in Arlington that was very popular, particularly during football season. Not a big deal there either.
There's nothing INHERENTLY racist or racial about that name. In the context of this situation, I could see how some people could view it that way. But that's because you are looking for it.
As for the unique spelling, I'd bet $100 the only reason he did that was because there was already a Massachusetts vanity plate with "WHITEY" on it.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 31, 2009 15:02:08 GMT -5
As for the unique spelling, I'd bet $100 the only reason he did that was because there was already a Massachusetts vanity plate with "WHITEY" on it. If you can find him, there's a $2M reward for him too : www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/bulger.htm |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 31, 2009 15:06:54 GMT -5
That may well be, but it probably does not show good judgment to put such a racially-tinged term on one's license plate. So he's supposed to change his license plate, which he's had for however long, which has his longtime nickname on it, just to appease a bunch of people who have no perspective? I didn't say he should change it. My point is that he would have been better off without it in the first instance. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 31, 2009 15:07:58 GMT -5
Ha! That's awesome.
Not my friend from college, by the way.....though I'm not too sure about that guy either.
;D
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 31, 2009 16:16:56 GMT -5
So he's supposed to change his license plate, which he's had for however long, which has his longtime nickname on it, just to appease a bunch of people who have no perspective? I didn't say he should change it. My point is that he would have been better off without it in the first instance. How would he be better off? Why should be limited on what he can put on his license plate (within reason, of course) just to make you or others feel better? |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 31, 2009 16:32:48 GMT -5
Without it, there would be no misunderstanding as to his beliefs vis-a-vis race. I would think that is valuable to him, but perhaps he and others do not care if it is an issue arising from the license plate.
He is within limits here obviously, but perhaps it goes to "leaving things unsaid" that riled up many conservatives and advocates for political correctness in the first place about Professor Gates and his comments to Sgt. Crowley.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 3, 2009 22:41:58 GMT -5
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 3, 2009 23:45:52 GMT -5
Without it, there would be no misunderstanding as to his beliefs vis-a-vis race. I would think that is valuable to him, but perhaps he and others do not care if it is an issue arising from the license plate. He is within limits here obviously, but perhaps it goes to "leaving things unsaid" that riled up many conservatives and advocates for political correctness in the first place about Professor Gates and his comments to Sgt. Crowley. So, just to check ... there are at least some things that don't offend you, right? |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 4, 2009 0:00:27 GMT -5
Without it, there would be no misunderstanding as to his beliefs vis-a-vis race. I would think that is valuable to him, but perhaps he and others do not care if it is an issue arising from the license plate. He is within limits here obviously, but perhaps it goes to "leaving things unsaid" that riled up many conservatives and advocates for political correctness in the first place about Professor Gates and his comments to Sgt. Crowley. So, just to check ... there are at least some things that don't offend you, right? My points in this thread and the birther thread don't have anything to do with taking offense. The accusation only distracts from the issues that I have raised. It seems to me, at least, that the Gates controversy was partially fueled by people taking offense to the Professor's comments on behalf of Sgt. Crowley and then to the President discussing his position on racial profiling in response to a question about the incident with clear caveats indicating that he was not connecting the two analytically. Perhaps precedent from Stones v. Glass Houses would be instructive in these regards. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 9, 2009 18:13:08 GMT -5
Colbert King offers some commentary on the frequency of disorderly conduct/contempt of cop arrests in the District: A 2003 board study found that D.C. police made far more "disorderly conduct" arrests per capita than cops in other large cities. Sometimes, the board reported, it appeared that the arrests were retaliation for rude behavior by residents during their encounters with the police.
That's a serious error. Disorderly conduct laws apply to a breach of the public's -- not a cop's -- peace.
As the Office of Citizen Complaint Review (its name in 2003 when this ruling was made) noted, echoing the D.C. Court of Appeals, and courts in other jurisdictions such as Massachusetts, a "police officer is expected to have a greater tolerance for verbal assaults . . . and because the police are especially trained to resist provocation, we expect them to remain peaceful in the face of verbal abuse that might provoke or offend the ordinary citizen." |
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 10, 2009 13:50:35 GMT -5
Colbert King offers some commentary on the frequency of disorderly conduct/contempt of cop arrests in the District: A 2003 board study found that D.C. police made far more "disorderly conduct" arrests per capita than cops in other large cities. Sometimes, the board reported, it appeared that the arrests were retaliation for rude behavior by residents during their encounters with the police.
That's a serious error. Disorderly conduct laws apply to a breach of the public's -- not a cop's -- peace.
As the Office of Citizen Complaint Review (its name in 2003 when this ruling was made) noted, echoing the D.C. Court of Appeals, and courts in other jurisdictions such as Massachusetts, a "police officer is expected to have a greater tolerance for verbal assaults . . . and because the police are especially trained to resist provocation, we expect them to remain peaceful in the face of verbal abuse that might provoke or offend the ordinary citizen." I agree with your/King's conclusion, but must take exception to the premise. In order to be meaningful, the OCCR's study would have had to take into consideration the incidence of disorderliness in the District versus those other jurisdictions, not simply dividing the number of arrests by the number of residents as if they were all equal. It's certainly plausible that Districtians are significantly more ill-behaved in public than New Yorkers, Bostonites, Phillyians, et al. |
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Aug 10, 2009 18:07:01 GMT -5
Colbert King offers some commentary on the frequency of disorderly conduct/contempt of cop arrests in the District: A 2003 board study found that D.C. police made far more "disorderly conduct" arrests per capita than cops in other large cities. Sometimes, the board reported, it appeared that the arrests were retaliation for rude behavior by residents during their encounters with the police.
That's a serious error. Disorderly conduct laws apply to a breach of the public's -- not a cop's -- peace.
As the Office of Citizen Complaint Review (its name in 2003 when this ruling was made) noted, echoing the D.C. Court of Appeals, and courts in other jurisdictions such as Massachusetts, a "police officer is expected to have a greater tolerance for verbal assaults . . . and because the police are especially trained to resist provocation, we expect them to remain peaceful in the face of verbal abuse that might provoke or offend the ordinary citizen." I agree with your/King's conclusion, but must take exception to the premise. In order to be meaningful, the OCCR's study would have had to take into consideration the incidence of disorderliness in the District versus those other jurisdictions, not simply dividing the number of arrests by the number of residents as if they were all equal. It's certainly plausible that Districtians are significantly more ill-behaved in public than New Yorkers, Bostonites, Phillyians, et al. Just curious: why do you think that? |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 10, 2009 18:47:36 GMT -5
It does seem odd to suggest that Washingtonians would be any more disorderly than residents of other major cities, although I suppose one could imagine a situation in which the kinds of protests that go on in D.C. on a regular basis could account for a sizeable number of such arrests. Anyway, here's another local account of a "contempt of cop" arrest by a D.C. resident, writing in WaPo. One does not need to necessarily accept all of Mr. Tuma's account as true in order to reach the conclusion that a certain abuse of police power has taken place (and that, chances are, this is not an isolated occurence). |
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Aug 10, 2009 21:54:16 GMT -5
It does seem odd to suggest that Washingtonians would be any more disorderly than residents of other major cities, although I suppose one could imagine a situation in which the kinds of protests that go on in D.C. on a regular basis could account for a sizeable number of such arrests. Anyway, here's another local account of a "contempt of cop" arrest by a D.C. resident, writing in WaPo. One does not need to necessarily accept all of Mr. Tuma's account as true in order to reach the conclusion that a certain abuse of police power has taken place (and that, chances are, this is not an isolated occurence). Wait a minute, rosslyn's point isn't political, it's one based on math and logic. If a city has more murders per capita, they'll likely have more murder arrests per capita. But if you start with the murder arrests per capita and say the number is high, you can't back into them being false arrests. Murder rates do vary by city. Crime rates vary by city for many different crimes. If you said Seattle has twice as many burglary arrests as Washington, it wouldn't be because police are more likely to arrest Seattlites for burglary. Seattle does have a higher incident of that crime. You could say the reverse about DC and aggravated assault compared to Seattle. So I agree with rosslyn here. There's nothing controversial about his statement. The hypothesis might be true, but his evidence doesn't necessarily support it. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 10, 2009 23:05:34 GMT -5
It does seem odd to suggest that Washingtonians would be any more disorderly than residents of other major cities, although I suppose one could imagine a situation in which the kinds of protests that go on in D.C. on a regular basis could account for a sizeable number of such arrests. Anyway, here's another local account of a "contempt of cop" arrest by a D.C. resident, writing in WaPo. One does not need to necessarily accept all of Mr. Tuma's account as true in order to reach the conclusion that a certain abuse of police power has taken place (and that, chances are, this is not an isolated occurence). Wait a minute, rosslyn's point isn't political, it's one based on math and logic. If a city has more murders per capita, they'll likely have more murder arrests per capita. But if you start with the murder arrests per capita and say the number is high, you can't back into them being false arrests. Murder rates do vary by city. Crime rates vary by city for many different crimes. If you said Seattle has twice as many burglary arrests as Washington, it wouldn't be because police are more likely to arrest Seattlites for burglary. Seattle does have a higher incident of that crime. You could say the reverse about DC and aggravated assault compared to Seattle. So I agree with rosslyn here. There's nothing controversial about his statement. The hypothesis might be true, but his evidence doesn't necessarily support it. I suppose it would be useful to have some actual numbers to examine, so that we could fine terms like "far greater." In any case, one element of the logic part of the equation would be: what is the logical reason for why a particular crime might have a higher incidence in one city than another (and, consequently, a higher arrest rate for that crime). I can think of some reasons why Seattle might have more burglaries than DC (e.g. geographic and demographic income distribution), in the same way that one could readily come up with some reasons for why Camden, NJ has more murders than Great Falls, MT. I offered one reason that D.C. might have more public disturbances than other major cities, though it strikes me as somewhat unpursuasive, so I'm looking for another logical reason or reasons. Another issue is that while murder is pretty readily verifiable (i.e. there's someone who died, death certificate and all) and burglary typically has a victim filing a police report, public disturbance is by and large police-driven and more directly susceptible to differing police behavior. Put another way: take two (or more) cities that share some general characteristics. Now imagine that one of them has far more speeding tickets given out per capita than the others. One reason for this might be that people in that city are just more liable to speed and do so more often. But another reason could be that the police in that city place a particular emphasis on catching speeders, including having a lower tolerance for it (the old "37 in a 30"). Insofar as we regularly talk about certain places being speed traps, I think different standards and M.O.s in different jurisdictions are a reality. |
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