Jeff Green/Oklahoma City Thunder

[dchoyafan]

Sam Presti, the GM of the Oklahoma City Thunder (formerly Seattle Supersonics), is almost universally respected by basketball people for putting together a very talented young team, which should only improve over the next few years as the players get more experience. He has done especially well in the draft, adding Kevin Durant, Jeff Green, Russell Westbrook and now James Harden.

Kevin Durant has always been expected to become an elite NBA All-Star within the next few years, and Green was therefore always going to be the second option, although Jeff himself arguably has lower-tier All-Star talent.

In Chad Ford's analysis, however, Green isn't even part of the picture. To anyone here who follows Jeff Green's career: do you have any idea where he fits into the Thunder's long-term plans, or if he might be headed somewhere else? Do you see the franchise becoming a contender anytime soon?



insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=OffseasonRankings-09

13. Oklahoma City Thunder

Key additions: James Harden, B.J. Mullens

Key subtractions: None

In limbo: Desmond Mason (U), Robert Swift (U)

The Thunder are the "it" team among NBA junkies, who have a crush on Sam Presti for quickly turning a bad team into the best young team in the league. Kevin Durant is a superstar in the making. Russell Westbrook could be special. And Harden is a nice addition -- a savvy guard with an old-school game who will be fine playing third fiddle to Durant and Westbrook. If you factor in that last year's other draft pick, Serge Ibaka, has been looking pretty good in summer league, and that Mullens has enormous potential, the Thunder appear to be bursting at the seams with talent.

However, their reticence to make a play in the free-agent market and their voiding of the Tyson Chandler deal in February mean that the Thunder won't be much better than the squad that suited up last season. Eventually, the Thunder will have to take some risks and add some veterans into the mix. I don't blame Presti for being patient, but next year he's probably going to have to make a big move.

[Nevada Hoya]

In Nevada Hoya's analysis, Chad Ford is an idiot. No offense to Chad, just to his analysis. Jeff has to help ANY team that is interested in playing team ball.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

I think generally speaking, it's safe to believe the opposite of most of Chad Ford's analysis, when it comes to NBA team strengths.

[Filo]

I really don't care in the least about what Ford has to say, but you have to admit that his write-up is just plain bizarre in it's complete omission of Jeff. So bizarre.

[jkhoya12]

IMO, he's just trying to focus more on the draft since it just happened but there's no denying that Jeff is a crucial part of that team.

[dchoyafan]

IMO, "Uncle Jeff" is going to be, at the very least, a solid starter for years to come, with the potential to become an All-Star. When, describing young talent, Chad Ford mentions Serge Ibaka and BJ Mullins but not Jeff Green, his credibility goes out the door.

I am just curious about where, in reality, people think Green is going to fit in that team next year. Westbrook - PG, Harden - SG , Durant - SF, Green - PF, _ C ?

[jgalt]

Jul 8, 2009 19:10:34 GMT -5 dchoyafan said:

When, describing young talent, Chad Ford mentions Serge Ibaka and BJ Mullins but not Jeff Green, his credibility goes out the door.

hell yeah. Ford completely ignores the most complete, though young and unflashy, player on the team but mentions a 19 year old Euro player and a 19 7' tall non shot blocking non-assisting center who can do little more than dunk. The key to the thunder's success is for westbrook and jeff to play defense and run a sound offense allowing durant to show off his abilities, no in some unproven 19 year olds (i dont know much about harden's game, from what i have heard he is pretty solid so i wont direct any criticism at him).

[lichoya68]

jeff is really good and will only get better WE WILL SEe go jeff go hoyas

[HoyaAtHeart]

While it is foolish to have a write up on the Thunder and exclude Jeff, you have to look at the big picture and understand that the sad truth is that in the long run Jeff is extremely expendable. While both versatile and can play multiple positions, Kevin Durant and Jeff play the same position. While some of you looking through Hoya colored might honestly believe that Jeff is better than Kevin (like some of you thought in their rookie seasons), you know that if they would have landed that 1st pick this year that Jeff would have likely been packing his bags. There are big questions about whether Jeff can hold down the PF position long term or not. So while Jeff, in terms of production, is the 2nd best player on that team, he may very well have been leapfrogged by Westbrook in terms of how they fit into the big picture. If you look at the core of the team, you'd be lying to yourself if you said that Jeff Green wasn't the most expendable. Hopefully they can do what the Pre Arenas Injury Wizards/Current Hawks/Old Suns teams have done and prove to be able to win games while having those tweener forwards in the front court.

[Filo]

Jul 9, 2009 8:56:37 GMT -5 HoyaAtHeart said:

While it is foolish to have a write up on the Thunder and exclude Jeff, you have to look at the big picture and understand that the sad truth is that in the long run Jeff is extremely expendable. While both versatile and can play multiple positions, Kevin Durant and Jeff play the same position. While some of you looking through Hoya colored might honestly believe that Jeff is better than Kevin (like some of you thought in their rookie seasons), you know that if they would have landed that 1st pick this year that Jeff would have likely been packing his bags. There are big questions about whether Jeff can hold down the PF position long term or not. So while Jeff, in terms of production, is the 2nd best player on that team, he may very well have been leapfrogged by Westbrook in terms of how they fit into the big picture. If you look at the core of the team, you'd be lying to yourself if you said that Jeff Green wasn't the most expendable. Hopefully they can do what the Pre Arenas Injury Wizards/Current Hawks/Old Suns teams have done and prove to be able to win games while having those tweener forwards in the front court.

Nothing you are saying is contradicting what others have been complaining about -- that it was ridiculous to omit any reference to Jeff. Your references to others looking through Hoya colored [glasses] etc. seems to be a straw man so that you can write some things to prove how solidly objective and realistic you are in your analysis of Hoyas in the NBA. Kudos to you, Captain Objectivity!

[tpk3]

Jul 9, 2009 8:56:37 GMT -5 HoyaAtHeart said:

While it is foolish to have a write up on the Thunder and exclude Jeff, you have to look at the big picture and understand that the sad truth is that in the long run Jeff is extremely expendable. While both versatile and can play multiple positions, Kevin Durant and Jeff play the same position. While some of you looking through Hoya colored might honestly believe that Jeff is better than Kevin (like some of you thought in their rookie seasons), you know that if they would have landed that 1st pick this year that Jeff would have likely been packing his bags. There are big questions about whether Jeff can hold down the PF position long term or not. So while Jeff, in terms of production, is the 2nd best player on that team, he may very well have been leapfrogged by Westbrook in terms of how they fit into the big picture. If you look at the core of the team, you'd be lying to yourself if you said that Jeff Green wasn't the most expendable. Hopefully they can do what the Pre Arenas Injury Wizards/Current Hawks/Old Suns teams have done and prove to be able to win games while having those tweener forwards in the front court.

You must be smoking some of that stuff that your boy Mike Beasley does. Jeff may obviously be more "expendable" than Durant, but chad excluding Jeff from the convo was just chad being the useless parasite that he is.

[757hoyafan]

OKC played better when KD messed up his ankle & he had to sit out some games. If I remember correctly, KD took over 600 more shots than Jeff. I would love for OKC to send Jeff to Philly.

[Buckets]

I'm guessing many of you don't have Insider subscriptions and/or did not read the rest of the article. The article was mainly focused on player movement and resigning free agents. San Antonio's article does not mention Tim Duncan. The Celtics article mentions none of the big three. LeBron only gets a mention in the sense that the Cavs need to add more to get him to stay.

Serge Ibaka gets a mention because he didn't play for the team last year, so he's an addition in that sense. The Russell Westbrook discussion befuddles me a little but this article is NOT meant to be a discussion of any team's long-term (or short-term) plans.

[daytonahoya31]

but it also said that harden would play third fiddle to westbrook and durant, which is my big complaint. green, hands down, is the second best player on that team. west brook may be something special, but so is jeff, who has the respect of every big name around the league. Jeff is derrick mckey if mckey would've played hard his entire career. so for ford not to even mention his name and claim that harden is already third in the pecking order was irresponsible journalism.

[MCIGuy]

Ford is a moron but his overlooking Jeff is very common amongst sports writers and fans. Trust me when people are discussing the Thunder's two young stars they normally mention Durant and Westbrook. Jeff is an afterthought to these folks. Despite his impressive improvement from rookie to second season even many Oklahoma fans take him for granted and they discuss the possibility of trading him.

I never liked the idea of Jeff playing alongside Durant like so many folks here. If the two were playing in college together that would be one thing. But for them to play on a pro team is a bit problematic for me because though while they are different type of players they are still both NBA small forwards. So I was worried when Jeff was drafted by Boston and then traded to Seattle. The first season the coaches tried playing Durant at the two because Durant was frail and because they were trying to get Jeff more minutes at the three position rather than the four position. Well, I knew immediately Durant at shooting guard was not going to work and therefore it would not be a long term solution. Last season Durant moved to his more natural role as SF and Jeff played PF. I give Jeff all the credit in the world for having a good season this past year but he is not a natural PF. He may not be a natural SF either (which is part of his problem) but he is more of three than a four. Even with the talk about the NBA relying more on big men who shoot jumpers and play on the perimeter, in the end when it comes down to half court ball you need guys in the paint to grab rebounds and defend. The Thunder fans know they have the offense but want someone to do that dirty work. Unfortunately since the team really hasn't had a center to take care of all that the attention of the fans turn towards Jeff and they start wanting him to be that guy. But Jeff isn't Rodman and he's not built to play against some of those really big power forwards in the league. There will come a time when Jeff and Durant will have to part ways IMO.

[Buckets]

Jul 9, 2009 11:58:49 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Ford is a moron but his overlooking Jeff is very common amongst sports writers and fans. Trust me when people are discussing the Thunder's two young stars they normally mention Durant and Westbrook. Jeff is an afterthought to these folks. Despite his impressive improvement from rookie to second season even many Oklahoma fans take him for granted and they discuss the possibility of trading him.

I never liked the idea of Jeff playing alongside Durant like so many folks here. If the two were playing in college together that would be one thing. But for them to play on a pro team is a bit problematic for me because though while they are different type of players they are still both NBA small forwards. So I was worried when Jeff was drafted by Boston and then traded to Seattle. The first season the coaches tried playing Durant at the two because Durant was frail and because they were trying to get Jeff more minutes at the three position rather than the four position. Well, I knew immediately Durant at shooting guard was not going to work and therefore it would not be a long term solution. Last season Durant moved to his more natural role as SF and Jeff played PF. I give Jeff all the credit in the world for having a good season this past year but he is not a natural PF. He may not be a natural SF either (which is part of his problem) but he is more of three than a four. Even with the talk about the NBA relying more on big men who shoot jumpers and play on the perimeter, in the end when it comes down to half court ball you need guys in the paint to grab rebounds and defend. The Thunder fans know they have the offense but want someone to do that dirty work. Unfortunately since the team really hasn't had a center to take care of all that the attention of the fans turn towards Jeff and they start wanting him to be that guy. But Jeff isn't Rodman and he's not built to play against some of those really big power forwards in the league. There will come a time when Jeff and Durant will have to part ways IMO.

Agree on most accounts, but (I meant to post this above) the Thunder do not have the offense. They had the worst eFG in the league last year. I think it's more that Chad Ford has a man crush on Russell Westbrook than a slight toward Jeff. Westbrook had a mind-bogglingly awful year shooting the ball last year (and also managed to play less minutes than he did in college but shoot 3.5 times more per game, so go figure).

[HoyaAtHeart]

Jul 9, 2009 9:24:53 GMT -5 Filo said:

Jul 9, 2009 8:56:37 GMT -5 HoyaAtHeart said:

While it is foolish to have a write up on the Thunder and exclude Jeff, you have to look at the big picture and understand that the sad truth is that in the long run Jeff is extremely expendable. While both versatile and can play multiple positions, Kevin Durant and Jeff play the same position. While some of you looking through Hoya colored might honestly believe that Jeff is better than Kevin (like some of you thought in their rookie seasons), you know that if they would have landed that 1st pick this year that Jeff would have likely been packing his bags. There are big questions about whether Jeff can hold down the PF position long term or not. So while Jeff, in terms of production, is the 2nd best player on that team, he may very well have been leapfrogged by Westbrook in terms of how they fit into the big picture. If you look at the core of the team, you'd be lying to yourself if you said that Jeff Green wasn't the most expendable. Hopefully they can do what the Pre Arenas Injury Wizards/Current Hawks/Old Suns teams have done and prove to be able to win games while having those tweener forwards in the front court.

Nothing you are saying is contradicting what others have been complaining about -- that it was ridiculous to omit any reference to Jeff. Your references to others looking through Hoya colored [glasses] etc. seems to be a straw man so that you can write some things to prove how solidly objective and realistic you are in your analysis of Hoyas in the NBA. Kudos to you, Captain Objectivity!

So you're basically saying nothing I said was false. Thanks.

You must be smoking some of that stuff that your boy Mike Beasley does. Jeff may obviously be more "expendable" than Durant, but chad excluding Jeff from the convo was just chad being the useless parasite that he is.

Did I NOT acknowledge that with my very first sentence? Sorry, not smoking anything.

OKC played better when KD messed up his ankle & he had to sit out some games. If I remember correctly, KD took over 600 more shots than Jeff. I would love for OKC to send Jeff to Philly.

Maybe they should trade Durant since he seems to be the problem then, right? Or perhaps have Jeff take those shots and have Durant as the sidekick. Sending Jeff to Philly with Iguodala and Thaddeus Young there sounds like a brilliant idea by the way.

[tpk3]

Well there are plenty of teams that want Jeff so that is fine. Miami is still trying to get Jeff. Heck, Miami can't give Mike 'South Beach Stank Breath' Beasly away.

[jgalt]

Jul 9, 2009 18:04:39 GMT -5 @tpk3 said:

Well there are plenty of teams that want Jeff so that is fine. Miami is still trying to get Jeff. Heck, Miami can't give Mike 'South Beach Stank Breath' Beasly away.

This is true. At first i was fairily peeved by this, but now that i have had a few days to think about it, would it really be that bad if Jeff wasnt on the Thunder? He is not on the edge like PE2 is of fall off the NBA radar. He has a great all around game, is a hard worker, and from reports players all love him. If OKC were to trade him im sure they could get a good amount coming back, and then maybe Jeff could win a few games.

[HoyaChris]

I had the pleasure of watching some 70 Thunder games last year and would make the following general comments.

1.) Unless he gets a lot better defensively as a 4, Jeff's best position is as a 3 which presents a clear problem with playing him with Durant. As a 4, Jeff was repeatedly overpowered down low and gave up some big games. Defensively he did well against 3's - and even played quite well against Kobe Bryant . His defensive issue as a 3 is that he can sometimes be beaten by quicker 3's and OKC has absolutely no big man help defensively. Offensively, his game has continued to develop to the point that he poses a problem for either 3's or 4's. As a 3, he is a good rebounder, as a 4 he is sub-standard.

2.) OKC would have been far better off if Thabeet had fallen to the three spot in the draft, because that would have made it much more likely that Jeff and KD could coexist on a longer term basis, since Thabeet would have provided weak side defensive help and more rebounding without needing the ball on offense.

3.) Despite the position conflict between Jeff and KD, the best lineup that OKC put on the floor consisted of Collison at the 5, Jeff at the 4, Durant at the 3, Desmond Mason at the 2 and Westbrook at the 1. This lineup was really effective offensively. This offense was essentially inverted, with both Westbrook and Mason scoring a lot down low, and both must be top 5% offensive rebounders for guards. Durant, Green and Collison all demanded to be guarded on the perimeter and there was a lot of room in the paint. Despite the little winning streak while Durant was out of the lineup, all but one of the best games that OKC played against good teams were with this lineup. Mason is currently unsigned, and with the addition of Harden OKC has a lot of 2's, but I would guess that Mason is probably more valuable in OKC than elsewhere in the league and that he will ultimately be signed (or that Harden has a good post-up game for a guard.)

4.) Durant's game is really developing and he will be a top 5 player in the league. He is so long that he is essentially unguardable and he is a much better player as a 3 where he plays off the ball more, dribbles less and has a killer catch and shoot game. Compared to his rookie season he is a much better passer, makes better decisions and works (somewhat) harder on defense. His rebounding is much improved.

5.) The body language between Jeff and KD is much improved. I had heard from a connected source that they did not like each other much, but they seem to have learned to work together pretty well and the number of smiles between them shot up exponentially as the season progressed.

6.)Jeff's game tailed off a little in the last twenty games. In particular he shot the 3 a lot less well. He was playing with a hurt elbow. Without the injury, he would have likely averaged a full point per game better for the season and would be higher on some people's radar.

7.) I expect that the Thunder will win at least half of their games this season although that will likely leave them outside of the playoffs. I would be surprised if they do not make the playoffs in 2010-11.

8.) I am somewhat ambivalent about Jeff's future in OKC. While the January and February Thunder were as much fun to watch as any young team that I have ever seen, I can't see the Jeff/KD tandem working long term without a dominant defensive big man or a lot better interior defensive development from Jeff. Jeff probably needs to be in a situation where he can be a starting 3, and in that scenario it would not be inconceivable for him to make several all star teams.