Philly Pool Makes a Splash

[Cambridge]

Good to see some real throwback racism...

www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Pool-Boots-Kids-Who-Might-Change-the-Complexion.html

[thebin]

So when you read this story Cambridge- it seemed plausible? Nothing seemed difficult to believe or beyond the pale? Or do you just find the source so impeccable?

I don't believe this story is true (as written) for a second. My BS Meter just went off the charts reading that tale of Selma Alabama in the 1950s plonked down right in 2009 suburban Philly. The very same BS Meter I might add that nearly exploded the day the Duke lax story broke (days before anyone thought to doubt Crystal Mangum's outlandish tale of Duke students brave/stupid/biggoted enough to shout N bombs at passing blacks in rural North Carolina). Not a chance someone from the pool club told them "minorities" were not allowed at the club. More like "minors" unaccompannied by adults I'd bet my right arm. Believe this story if you like, it doesn't pass the smell test. This feels like trumpted up allegations being foisted on a highly gulable public that is always willing to believe Americans in 2009 are just a modicum less bigotted than Jim Crowe himself.

I'm guessing members at the club didn't want their private pool over-run with 60 largely unaccompannied minors- as opposed to families- and the ticked off camp (rightfully ticked off it seems for the mix up seems hardly their fault) decided that the easiest thing in the world you can do these days is accuse white Americans of horrible racism and get away with it. The parents are waiting for an "apology" huh? More like a massive payoff/settlement.

How long before journalists trip over themselves to proclaim that anyone who would belong to a private swim club does this sort of thing all the time anyway and there is no reason to actually check this one out any further beause it just HAS to be true.

[Bando]

"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.

The explanation for this statement ranges from "highly racist" to "somewhat racist and the most poorly worded statement ever uttered". That's about as charitable as I think one can be.

[thebin]

You are reading into that what you want. "A lot of kids" ruins every single pool I've ever been to, white or black ones. The only reason one joins a private swim club is so that it isn't overwhelmed with dozens of kids. Some idiot at the club has something to answer for if he/she knowling sold a large amount of memberships to a kids camp- but there is no reason (at this point) to believe that the race of the kids is at all part of that issue. The very idea of a private pool club is that the pool will not be packed with kids like a public pool is. If you think that's racism, that's your problem. I find it very easy to see that a barrage of day campers into my PRIVATE pool club would leave me outraged.

[Bando]

thebin, even if we accept your charitable attitude toward the pool, you have admit the club is handling this very poorly. First, the "change the complexion" comments, then having an old white dude yell at the media. This is not how one defuses a scandal.

[thebin]

I would certainly admit the club is handling this poorly. Moreover, I would suggest that they should honor the memberships they sold, having sold them. But I refuse at this point to make the leap that the writer of this piece made and that so many in America are EAGER to make, that because people at a private club don't want a largely black day camp invading their private club during peak season must mean the club members are Klansmen. I detest that intellectual laziness which I believe is as much as part of the problem of racism in America as actual racism.

Like I said, the article just doesn't smell right. The club came out and said "no minorities" allowed at the club huh? No, I refuse to believe that. I think a bunch of campers and camp staff were (rightfully) ticked off and then irresponsibly made it about race because it's the easiest thing to get away with in America. Heck the camper/camp staff probably actually believe it is racism that they encountered, because they have been conditioned to look for it behind every corner. We've got to raise the standard of proof of racism in this country a few inches off the floor where it comfortably sits to the point where a charge of racism is pretty much the same thing as a conviction in the court of public opinion.

[Boz]

I think you are both right. Like bin, I really find it hard to believe that someone from the club came out and said "Sorry we don't allow minorities here." That seems a little too bad to be true.

On the other hand, I agree with bando that the club really could not have picked a worse choice of words to use to explain their decision.

A good journalist should really be able to flesh this out pretty easily. If this club's management is truly racist, there is almost certainly going to be a track record of this sort of thing. They're not just going to wake up one day and say, "we hate minorities." If that exists, then sure, hang 'em by their thumbs. (the exception to this would be if the club just came under new management, but I don't see any indication of that here).

If there's not any history of that, then I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to the club....and just fault them for not having anyone on staff who knows the first thing about communications or PR....or just plain common sense.

However, it remains to be seen whether the author of this piece is a "good" journalist or not. My guess is "not," and of course it's much easier just to look at the surface and write something that will outrage people, whether it's really true or not.

[guru]

I tend to share thebin's suspicion that this story hasn't been reported as carefully as it should be. I am certain there is far more to this story than the simplistic, button-pushing version that has been written in this rag. This is not excusing the statement from the spokesperson, which, if nothing else, is just unbelievably stupid.

[thebin]

Complexion according to Webster....
3: the hue or appearance of the skin and especially of the face <a dark complexion>
4: overall aspect or character <by changing the complexion of the legislative branch — Trevor Armbrister>

Clearly one assumes that the (poorly) chosen word intended the #4 webster definition and that it is a very reasonable claim that introducing summer camps worth of kids and a few camp counselors (not families) would absolutely transform the "character" of a PRIVATE swim club into that of a public pool. Again it seems the club has nobody to blame but themselves for the sale of the memberships and they didn't seem to handle it very well, but to me the ugliest aspect of this so far is that the journalist seems to have almost willfully participated in trumping up the charges.

[Cambridge]

Jul 8, 2009 15:01:55 GMT -5 thebin said:

I would certainly admit the club is handling this poorly. Moreover, I would suggest that they should honor the memberships they sold, having sold them. But I refuse at this point to make the leap that the writer of this piece made and that so many in America are EAGER to make, that because people at a private club don't want a largely black day camp invading their private club during peak season must mean the club members are Klansmen. I detest that intellectual laziness which I believe is as much as part of the problem of racism in America as actual racism.

Like I said, the article just doesn't smell right. The club came out and said "no minorities" allowed at the club huh? No, I refuse to believe that. I think a bunch of campers and camp staff were (rightfully) ticked off and then irresponsibly made it about race because it's the easiest thing to get away with in America. Heck the camper/camp staff probably actually believe it is racism that they encountered, because they have been conditioned to look for it behind every corner. We've got to raise the standard of proof of racism in this country a few inches off the floor where it comfortably sits to the point where a charge of racism is pretty much the same thing as a conviction in the court of public opinion.

Dude, relax. I am no angel. I am a member of a couple clubs whose complexion seems suspiciously monotone. While that leaves much to be desired, I do enjoy the privacy and solitude of those clubs - and as a resident of New York I cherish those characteristics.

I actually agree to some degree with thebin, but like Bando I did a spit take when I read the Club's statement regarding complexion. You couldn't concoct a worse response in a lab if you tried.

As for why I linked to the article, it wasn't to raise the boogeyman of racism so much as it was to chuckle at the Club's officials, who have made one of the more hilarious gaffe's I've read in a while. I mean, talk about a wooden-headed reaction. Unbelievable, really. I mean if someone makes that poor of a decisions, well, it's our obligation to laugh at them for their foolishness. Besides, everyone knows that the proper method they should have employed is the age-old: "The pool is closed for maintenance..."

PS I'm disappointed in all of you in that nobody picked up on the fact that this was only the SECOND weirdest story on the page. Look in the right hand column where it says "Top Stories" and try this one on for size: www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Man-Dies-In-Tank-of-Chocolate.html

[Boz]

Jul 8, 2009 16:53:48 GMT -5 Cambridge said:

PS I'm disappointed in all of you in that nobody picked up on the fact that this was only the SECOND weirdest story on the page. Look in the right hand column where it says "Top Stories" and try this one on for size: www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Man-Dies-In-Tank-of-Chocolate.html

You are just plain evil, dude.

Now, how am I supposed to read this story -- which is really quite sad -- and not berate the journalist for not making any Augustus Gloop references? Followed by me berating myself for being so cruel.

I hate that article and I hate you for pointing it out.....and reminding me that I am going to hell for the things that I think.

[EasyEd]

thebin, I happen to agree with you on this one but I'll ask you a question. Would your reaction have been the same if this had taken place in Mississippi?

[Filo]

Check out the new blurb on the campers. On the positive side, the kids have found a place to swim. On the negative, it looks like that tool Arlen Specter is insinuating himself into the situation.

[jgalt]

ignoring the racial aspects of this for a second, is no one going to point out that thebin is a basically saying that a POOL during the SUMMER shouldnt be full of KIDS because they are rowdy. gaurdians or not, children of any age are rowdy, but who cares, they are children at a pool in the summer, not standing in a court room screaming their faces off or at a museum playing hide and go seek around the Dega's!

My only thought on the racial side of it is that, although i am vehemently against racism mostly because i dont believe that the color of your skin has anything to do with your moral fiber or the choices you make (something lost on many people these days), a private organization should be able to allow or to not allow anyone they wish. It doesnt mean i think racism is right (it would be rather stupid if you owned a business and didnt let a over fifty percent of customers come in because they are minorities-- that is no way to make a buck), but rather that protecting the rights of private groups and individuals is the most important part of our system of government.

[TC]

www.philly.com/philly/news/50346612.html

This is a much better written article, probably because it comes from a newspaper rather than a local TV news station. Let's be honest - news stations try to turn every story into a scandal in a general manner ("ARE YOUR CHILDREN SAFE??", "ARE YOU BEING RIPPED OFF?"), not an ideological one like dailykos.com or foxnation.com. The article has both sides, including the investigation of how big the pool was and whether 65 kids would change a pool from peaceful to noisy. Too bad newspapers are going away.

That said, there's definitely a racial aspect here in the parents reactions and anyone would be naive to suggest otherwise. Maybe the parents were upset about how many kids were in the pool. That's not how the kids overheard them expressing it though, and that's the problem.

[thebin]

Jul 9, 2009 5:31:38 GMT -5 jgalt said:

ignoring the racial aspects of this for a second, is no one going to point out that thebin is a basically saying that a POOL during the SUMMER shouldnt be full of KIDS because they are rowdy. gaurdians or not, children of any age are rowdy, but who cares, they are children at a pool in the summer, not standing in a court room screaming their faces off or at a museum playing hide and go seek around the Dega's!

My only thought on the racial side of it is that, although i am vehemently against racism mostly because i dont believe that the color of your skin has anything to do with your moral fiber or the choices you make (something lost on many people these days), a private organization should be able to allow or to not allow anyone they wish. It doesnt mean i think racism is right (it would be rather stupid if you owned a business and didnt let a over fifty percent of customers come in because they are minorities-- that is no way to make a buck), but rather that protecting the rights of private groups and individuals is the most important part of our system of government.

Its astonishing how much you have managed to miss the point.

1. It's a PRIVATE pool. Do you know the reason people pay a premium to join any PRIVATE club? More than anything, it's to keep the crowds down around them and in particular the crowds of strangers. People who pay to join private swim clubs want their children and their freinds children in the pool, but they don't want an over-crowded public pool atmosphere with legions of summer camps over-taking it. I love swimming pools. Ones that are completely over-crowded with screaming children look more like hell to me than heaven. Solution? Join a private swim club. Are we all caught up? Ok.....

2. The second part of your "argument" is actually laugh at loud funny because you have actually managed to try to convince us of why you are "against racism." That's about as necessary on this board as me trying to convince you all why I am against drowning. You then proceed to join the argument, using as a starting point the notion that the racism here is an undisputed fact, rather than the heart of the issue.

Bravo.

[thebin]

Jul 9, 2009 7:03:53 GMT -5 TC said:

www.philly.com/philly/news/50346612.html

This is a much better written article, probably because it comes from a newspaper rather than a local TV news station. Let's be honest - news stations try to turn every story into a scandal in a general manner ("ARE YOUR CHILDREN SAFE??", "ARE YOU BEING RIPPED OFF?"), not an ideological one like dailykos.com or foxnation.com. The article has both sides, including the investigation of how big the pool was and whether 65 kids would change a pool from peaceful to noisy. Too bad newspapers are going away.

That said, there's definitely a racial aspect here in the parents reactions and anyone would be naive to suggest otherwise. Maybe the parents were upset about how many kids were in the pool. That's not how the kids overheard them expressing it though, and that's the problem.

It's a slightly better article only because the author introduces a modicum of common sense and balance where that was utterly lacking in the original. But he has no new facts except those that actually exculpate the club. We now know that the memberships were purchased online. So presumably, the sale of 65 memberships at once was a mistake that should never have happened, that the club would never have fundamentally altered the character of their private swim club by selling en masse memberships to any day camp, white or black. It seems pretty clear that this sale of memberships to a camp was an unintended mistake that only went through because it was done via machines rather than humans. Do you really believe that if a few black families had purchased the memberships they would have had their memberships revoked?

What are we left with? This is it presumably.... "According to 14-year-old camper Dymir Baylor, with whom I spoke yesterday, some of the comments were heartless. "I heard a white lady say, 'What are all these black kids doing here? They might do something to my child,' " recalled Dymir, who says he lives in a neighborhood so diverse, he'd never heard anyone speak like that before. "It was rude and ignorant."

That's not nothing, but it's not much either unless you are pre-disposed to believe every word the kid and his outraged (somewhat understandably outraged) parents and camp staff want you to believe. Let me start by saying that I accept the kid's use of "white lady" and said white ladies use of "black kids" with the SAME value-neutral descriptive nature that I assume each was intended. Do you treat both uses of the words "black" and "white" as equal? Be honest. As soon as you saw the white woman even recognize that all of the sudden there were 65 "black" kids running around her club, did you assume she was racist for even mentioning their color? I make no such unfair assumptions. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

So the entire outlandish and very serious charge lies with what.....the quote of the 14 year old kid that white woman felt her kid might be in danger. A 14 year old kid let us remember who has been coached no doubt by now by parents and camp staff to believe he is a victim. Am I overwhelmed with the likely authenticity of his quote? I cannot say I am. Would I be shocked if he sorta made it up or at least juiced it up a bit encouraged by his outraged parents and camp staff? I would not. Is it possible, as suspiciously vague and passive as his recollection of the quote is, that it is still accurate? Yes, it is possible.

And so then....at most, we have one single club member getting overly protective of her child and while she's at it maybe racially insensitive (which is not the same as racist) about the influx of 65 campers into her private swim club, in what to her probably looked like an invasion since she can hardly have assumed the club sold a day camp a membership. That's it huh? On this basis, we castigate the entire club as outlandishly and officially backwards and bigoted? That's journalism for ya folks.

[theexorcist]

Jul 9, 2009 7:03:53 GMT -5 TC said:

www.philly.com/philly/news/50346612.html

This is a much better written article, probably because it comes from a newspaper rather than a local TV news station. Let's be honest - news stations try to turn every story into a scandal in a general manner ("ARE YOUR CHILDREN SAFE??", "ARE YOU BEING RIPPED OFF?"), not an ideological one like dailykos.com or foxnation.com. The article has both sides, including the investigation of how big the pool was and whether 65 kids would change a pool from peaceful to noisy. Too bad newspapers are going away.

That said, there's definitely a racial aspect here in the parents reactions and anyone would be naive to suggest otherwise. Maybe the parents were upset about how many kids were in the pool. That's not how the kids overheard them expressing it though, and that's the problem.

It's worth noting that this is not an article - it's by a columnist, who is paid to express opinions.

My guess? Whoever set up that system on their website ( thevalleyclub.com , which is now down ) should have limited how many online passes could be procured - getting 65 at one time without contacting anybody just seems weird. It almost seems like it was a stealth approach. I'd have called and said "hey, we've got a large number of kids - can we get passes to use your pool"?

But I'm betting that at least one person made a racist remark.

It seems like the solution is the kids will swim somewhere else, everyone will hate the club for a year, and then this will all fade when the next outrage comes.

The club's retreating into a phalanx. I can sort of see that given most of the articles about this paint them as the second coming of apartheid. Now, it seems that any offer smacks of damage control.

What an ugly situation.

[Buckets]

"The special arrangement, a first for the club, was approved by its board"

They didn't just make a stealth move and grab 65 memberships online. This was not a mistake.

You're basically left to believe that the board underestimated the impact that 65 people would have (perhaps it was not made clear that all 65 would be in the pool and the board imagined them spreading over the rest of the club, perhaps the board members cannot count to 65, who knows), or that it was racism on the parts of the board or members (oh you meant THOSE kinds of campers).

Also the number of comments on the original story was soaring toward 1200 yesterday but is under 1,000 now... I imagine they deleted some of the most offensive ones, but if you take a peek through, racism is still alive and well in America.

[TC]

Jul 9, 2009 7:45:19 GMT -5 thebin said:

What are we left with? This is it presumably.... "According to 14-year-old camper Dymir Baylor, with whom I spoke yesterday, some of the comments were heartless. "I heard a white lady say, 'What are all these black kids doing here? They might do something to my child,' " recalled Dymir, who says he lives in a neighborhood so diverse, he'd never heard anyone speak like that before. "It was rude and ignorant."

The column (not article, my bad) suggests that Alethea Wright, the adult director of the camp, heard those statements too ("Trouble began immediately, says Wright, when she heard several white members make disparaging racial remarks about the campers, who are black and Hispanic. Wright says that Valley Club president John Duesler, who was on the premises, seemed surprised and embarrassed by the behavior but assured her that all would work out.") From the quotes in the article, she seems pretty reasonable ("I feel bad for Mr. Duesler," says Wright. "I think he did everything he could. He was very embarrassed and apologetic. But this is wrong."), so I don't know why you'd doubt her account.

The thing I just can't grasp is that you've taken money from these kids for an hour and a half of swim time once a week. It's not an every day thing. Instead of offering a low-traffic pool time as an alternative the board and the membership force Duesler to cancel outright? Who is that boneheadedly stupid?