hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 26, 2009 19:35:05 GMT -5
OJ also was aquitted. I'm still pretty sure he stabbed and killed two people. Just sayin'. I considered going there, but thought better of it. ;D I don't think Michael's trial was the Alice Through the Looking Glass complete farce that is now known as OJ Trial I. OJ Trial II had a far superior result. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 26, 2009 19:41:16 GMT -5
OJ also was aquitted. I'm still pretty sure he stabbed and killed two people. Just sayin'. To clarify: I am of the opinion that Michael Jackson undoubtedly did some terrible things in his lifetime. I am also of the opinion that some of those things were criminal in nature. If not criminal in nature, those things, at the very least, did not comport with human notions of morality. But does anyone remember what Michael Jackson was alleged to have done with any specificity, without search engine assistance? All our memories seem to say is "Michael Jackson was a pervert." And what is the source of that memory? Media coverage of Michael Jackson. When allegations were made with specificity, they were not proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And a settlement in a civil lawsuit is not an admission of guilt. Is there a ton of circumstantial evidence suggesting Michael Jackson was a pederast? Absolutely. Is the evidence showing that Michael Jackson was an absoute popular music success and sold a ton of albums in any way circumstantial? Absolutely not. In light of what is absolutely certain and what is close-to-certain, I think the media headlines are more than fair. Michael Jackson was a confirmed hell of an entertainer. He also seemed to be a troubled soul, and we've got some pretty good clues he was a pedophile. To reverse the certain and the close-to-certain, in my opinion, wouldn't be honest journalism (if there is such a thing). |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 27, 2009 10:40:43 GMT -5
Two things and then I'll stop (because I am sick of Michael Jackson already):
1. I did not complain about the nature or tone of media coverage. I complained about the amount of media coverage for someone who was an undeniable pop superstar, but who I did not think warranted 24/7 attention. That complaint was independent of his activities that were extracurricular to his music career.
2. It is my opinion that Michael Jackson was a criminal and a pedophile. He was not convicted of any such crime, so it is just opinion. Others are entitled to different opinions and I won't judge them for it. (well, maybe a little; this is a message board after all ;D )
That's all. I'm done with this guy.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 27, 2009 19:15:37 GMT -5
1. I did not complain about the nature or tone of media coverage. I complained about the amount of media coverage for someone who was an undeniable pop superstar, but who I did not think warranted 24/7 attention. That complaint was independent of his activities that were extracurricular to his music career. Boz: I was clarifying my question/response to ed in light of your comment. My apologies if by quoting you it seemed as if I was responding to your comment directly. |
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Jun 28, 2009 8:14:58 GMT -5
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on Jun 29, 2009 9:14:13 GMT -5
Really important question: will they still play Billy Jean at the wedding I am attending this weekend? Nothing like a Michael Jackson dance-off in seersucker. Sorry for bringing up a first-page discussion on a three page thread, but I'm curious about your answer to this question, Jack. The DJ at the wedding I went to this weekend played a 10 minute MJ mix including Billie Jean, Thriller, Beat It, Rock With You, and Don't Stop 'Till You Get Enough. Think about how different Michael Jackson's legacy would be today if he HAD, in fact died in 1984 when his head caught on fire. Really, what memorable music would we have missed? The only thing I can think of is "We Are The World," which deserves some credit. But for me, Bob Geldof's "Do They Know It's Christmas?" is a much better song anyway and was really what got the movement going, IMO. (Besides, I am sure Lionel Ritchie could have written "We Are The World" all by himself). Don't be too quick to dismiss Dangerous. There are multiple reasons why I enjoy this album as much as Thriller: 1) The song from Free Willy. I was around three years old when that movie came out and I played the cassette tape of Dangerous constantly for a good four months because I enjoyed it (the song/movie) so much 2) The multiple collaborations with Slash. "Black and White" was a decent song, but "Give In To Me" is probably my favorite song on that album and possibly Jackson's best of the 90's. It also added to the list of notable collaborators in the Jackson catalog (Eddie Van Halen, Paul McCartney, everyone from USA for Africa) and most importantly... 3) The unintentional comedy that comes from Eddie Murphy playing an Egyptian pharaoh and Magic Johnson playing a warrior in the "Remember the Time" video. |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jun 29, 2009 11:04:31 GMT -5
Dangerous is awesome. It's a very deep song bench - mchoya forgets Jam and Dangerous. Coming from an era where videos were critical, "Black or White" (NOT "and") was an event, "Remember The Time" featured Magic Johnson, Eddie Murphy, and Imam ... and so the third-most memorable video from the album ONLY FEATURED MICHAEL FRICKING JORDAN and the fourth had Naomi Campbell.
Really, pick up a copy and play it - it's still surprisingly listenable.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Jun 29, 2009 12:15:57 GMT -5
Without Black or White we would never have had face-morphing or crotch grabbing - it definitely made technological and social contributions to our culture.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 29, 2009 13:47:17 GMT -5
Good to see that the Jackson family has enlisted the help of Rev. Al in their time of need. Just in case this wasn't Theater of the Absurd (enough).
Other than find a way to blame Jacko's death on racist interlopers, what can Al possibly bring to the table?
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
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Post by SoCalHoya on Jun 29, 2009 14:01:01 GMT -5
Good to see that the Jackson family has enlisted the help of Rev. Al in their time of need. Just in case this wasn't Theater of the Absurd (enough). Other than find a way to blame Jacko's death on racist interlopers, what can Al possibly bring to the table? Someday someone is going to make a musical out of this all. And if they don't, I will. Goldmine. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 29, 2009 18:52:06 GMT -5
Can anyone honestly tell me they are not fed up with the media's overboard coverage of Jackson's death? U.S. turnover of security in the cities to the Iraqi forces. Overthrow of government in Honduras and Obama siding with Chavez and Castro. Supreme Court decisions. The Cap and Trade bill that no one read passed by the House. North Korea. Afghanistan. Iran's confirming the election results. And so forth. And what do we get? Continuous coverage of Michael Jackson. Gimme a break, media.
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afirth
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by afirth on Jun 29, 2009 19:24:49 GMT -5
Can anyone honestly tell me they are not fed up with the media's overboard coverage of Jackson's death? U.S. turnover of security in the cities to the Iraqi forces. Overthrow of government in Honduras and Obama siding with Chavez and Castro. Supreme Court decisions. The Cap and Trade bill that no one read passed by the House. North Korea. Afghanistan. Iran's confirming the election results. And so forth. And what do we get? Continuous coverage of Michael Jackson. Gimme a break, media. Oh, I'm fed up. But I'm also not in the least surprised. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 29, 2009 20:13:16 GMT -5
Can anyone honestly tell me they are not fed up with the media's overboard coverage of Jackson's death? U.S. turnover of security in the cities to the Iraqi forces. Overthrow of government in Honduras and Obama siding with Chavez and Castro. Supreme Court decisions. The Cap and Trade bill that no one read passed by the House. North Korea. Afghanistan. Iran's confirming the election results. And so forth. And what do we get? Continuous coverage of Michael Jackson. Gimme a break, media. While I agree, there's a lot to be blamed on the people watching. |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 29, 2009 20:19:35 GMT -5
Can anyone honestly tell me they are not fed up with the media's overboard coverage of Jackson's death? U.S. turnover of security in the cities to the Iraqi forces. Overthrow of government in Honduras and Obama siding with Chavez and Castro. Supreme Court decisions. The Cap and Trade bill that no one read passed by the House. North Korea. Afghanistan. Iran's confirming the election results. And so forth. And what do we get? Continuous coverage of Michael Jackson. Gimme a break, media. Oh, no, I think it's wonderful seeing the LA Times contain pages and pages of stories on MJ in multiple parts of the newspaper while everything else gets pushed to the back, and seeing 30 minute local evening news shows consist of 20-25 minutes on MJ and 5-10 minutes on everything else. Sigh. Perhaps it's because it's LA, and can be expected here in the "entertainment capital." But I'll bet it's not so different everywhere else. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Jun 29, 2009 23:41:21 GMT -5
...and the EU, and the OAS. I thought military coups of democratic governments are, in general, bad things.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jun 30, 2009 6:44:25 GMT -5
...and the EU, and the OAS. I thought military coups of democratic governments are, in general, bad things. Oh, come on now. Don't you know how this works. If Obama approves of the coup, then it was a bad thing. If he condemns it, then it was a good thing. That's how Ed's politics work. But I do agree w/ Ed's main point. I have no problem with giving a fair amount of attention to one of the greatest musical stars of all time, even if he did have a bit of a sordid post-musical life. But it's gotten a little over the top now. Or WAY over the top. |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jun 30, 2009 8:39:52 GMT -5
...and the EU, and the OAS. I thought military coups of democratic governments are, in general, bad things. Oh, come on now. Don't you know how this works. If Obama approves of the coup, then it was a bad thing. If he condemns it, then it was a good thing. That's how Ed's politics work. But I do agree w/ Ed's main point. I have no problem with giving a fair amount of attention to one of the greatest musical stars of all time, even if he did have a bit of a sordid post-musical life. But it's gotten a little over the top now. Or WAY over the top. This is not the "Honduras" thread, but I do have to mention that Ed has a point. The president tried to chuck the military chief of staff and to hold a referendum on modifying the constitution - which the judiciary said he couldn't do. When the military did take power and kick out the president, they immediately turned power over to the next in line. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 30, 2009 9:32:45 GMT -5
Oh, come on now. Don't you know how this works. If Obama approves of the coup, then it was a bad thing. If he condemns it, then it was a good thing. That's how Ed's politics work. But I do agree w/ Ed's main point. I have no problem with giving a fair amount of attention to one of the greatest musical stars of all time, even if he did have a bit of a sordid post-musical life. But it's gotten a little over the top now. Or WAY over the top. This is not the "Honduras" thread, but I do have to mention that Ed has a point. The president tried to chuck the military chief of staff and to hold a referendum on modifying the constitution - which the judiciary said he couldn't do. When the military did take power and kick out the president, they immediately turned power over to the next in line. These little facts seem to evade some. Maybe the President of Honduras thought he could negate the country's constitution and Supreme Court as long as he had empathy. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Jun 30, 2009 10:49:58 GMT -5
This is not the "Honduras" thread, but I do have to mention that Ed has a point. The president tried to chuck the military chief of staff and to hold a referendum on modifying the constitution - which the judiciary said he couldn't do. When the military did take power and kick out the president, they immediately turned power over to the next in line. These little facts seem to evade some. Maybe the President of Honduras thought he could negate the country's constitution and Supreme Court as long as he had empathy. This is ridiculous. Process matters, and while I don't agree with the steps the president was taking, the military's kidnapping of him was clearly illegal, no matter what the Congress did after the fact. I don't understand how you can consider yourself pro-democracy if you don't respect the rule of law. |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jun 30, 2009 13:19:46 GMT -5
These little facts seem to evade some. Maybe the President of Honduras thought he could negate the country's constitution and Supreme Court as long as he had empathy. This is ridiculous. Process matters, and while I don't agree with the steps the president was taking, the military's kidnapping of him was clearly illegal, no matter what the Congress did after the fact. I don't understand how you can consider yourself pro-democracy if you don't respect the rule of law. At a certain point, when your country's president is trying to run a coup of his own and establish a quasi-dictatorship, I think that process matters less. Bck to MJ! Hee hee! |
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