looks like Pitino has ANOTHER problem

[rambis]

The NBA age limit is the most ridiculous rule ever enacted. Funny how Michelle Wie can turn pro at 13, Freddy Adu at 14, Sydney Crosby can play NHL hockey at 16, but predominantly African-American men who want to pursue their careers upon reaching adulthood are told they need more maturation? This is a policy that the League hopes negative stereotypes about African-American men will help sustain. Think I'm over the top here? A Spanish guard, Ricky Rubio, will be the same age as Tyler will be (18) when he is chosen as a lottery pick in June. The NBA rule does not apply to foreigners. Seriously. Only Americans. The NBA is discriminating against American players, giving opportunities to Europeans that are denied to Americans, all the while they want you to believe they are doing what's best for the kid. Right.

[HoyaSox04]

Apr 23, 2009 3:10:23 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Oh, God. This same old argument again. Football players aren't allowed to go pro until after they completed at least three years in college and no one complains. Businesses all across the country require workers to have college degrees before hiring them even though there are people in high school who can do the job as well as any college graduate. Again no one complains. But whenever the NBA even thinks of an age limit all the human rights activists come running out of the closet.

This move by Tyler proves to me more that David Stern was right. This scenario is one that I had been tossing around on message boards for years every time somebody complained about Stern putting in place a rule to prevent players jumping immediately from their senior year in high school to the NBA. The pro right to work crowd would argue that is was unfair for the NBA to tell a player he had to go to college. My argument was that the NBA didn't force a player to go to college; the players had other routes such as going overseas. Sure enough Jennings proved my point by showing that that was an option (though in my view the majority of players who went that route were not going to get contracts a since as Jennings). Another point that I made was that even if Stern did not seek to stop players going directly from graduating high school to being drafted by NBA teams, what would stop kids from thinking that high school itself should be skipped? What if some hyped player didn't want to bother with his senior year? What then? What if a player didn't want to "waste time" with his junior year or even sophomore year but instead thought it'd be best if he finds some league in some country that will allow him to develop as a 15 year old while being plaid? What if such player wanted to skip high school altogether? Well, aren't we seeing all this take place now? So when does it end? Should Stern step aside and let freakin' six graders who are ranked high by recruiting sites get drafted by NBA teams and then placed in development leagues even though they are children?

My answer to that is no. The NBA can't allow that to happen just because some players don't want to go to high school or because some parents want to see "their investment" take fruit much more quickly. Screw them. If those folks want to go overseas and take their chances then so be it. I'm guessing most will be worst off for it. And I'm sure there isn't nearly enough money or interest in Europe or other foreign locations for this to become a big trend. NBA needs to stand its ground. Fro all indications Stern is looking to make it TWO years a graduated high school player must wait before declaring for the NBA draft. More power to him.

Couldn't agree with you more, MCI. I think that the current economic climate is also going to help Stern and the owners in the next round of collective bargaining negotiations in... 2010, is it? 2011? I forget. But I really hope that Stern sticks to his guns on this (and by all accounts, it seems as though he will).

On the other hand, I do understand some of the arguments from the people who support high schoolers declaring for the draft. I don't agree with them, but I understand. When you take into account that for many of these kids and their parents/handlers, the college "experience" is nothing more than a vehicle to make money of their investments, the notion of the purity of college basketball is a bit tarnished.

What I'd still like to see the NBA resort to is a hybrid of the other professional leagues in the US, when it comes to the draft. For instance, MLB rules state a player can either enter the league straight out of high school, but if he chooses to go to college, he cannot be drafted until after his junior year (with some exceptions for the world of junior college baseball, which is inherently dirty, like AAU basketball). I think that, if applied to the NBA, this could have a positive effect on the college game. I'm not sure how many guys you'd see declaring on a yearly basis for the draft, but when you factor them against a class of juniors who have been developing for 3 years in the game and building their brand names, I think you'd see a lot more kids choosing to go to college, adding inherent stability to programs knowing you'd have kids there for at least 3 years.

Its not a foolproof plan by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it'd be a great first step by the NBA and the NCAA to cleaning up the college game, which has been handicapped by the AAU and high school systems run amok in this day and age.

Of course, if the NCAA continues their plan to hide their heads in the sand and go after stupid, inane things like Facebook groups instead of attacking the real problem/culture that exists in high school basketball and the recruiting process, we'll never get anywhere, and the game that we all love will continue on its way to permanent tarnishing... if its not there already.

[IDenj]

the nhl doesn t allow 16 year olds in the league. you need to turn 18 by sept 15 in your draft year. so you can be drafted as a 17 year old, but by training camp you need to be 18.

i am not sure the colour of ones skin plays into this but i do agree kids should be allowed to play at the highest level. you see a kid like john tavares, who has played junior hockey for 4 years now. he will be drafted #1 by the new york islanders. why doesn t the nba have it s own youth development system?

as far as i am concerned i think more kids will go to europe, and good for them. when garnett went pro, most pundits weren t concerned, saying this won t happen too often.

[HoyaSox04]

Apr 23, 2009 7:36:19 GMT -5 rambis said:

The NBA age limit is the most ridiculous rule ever enacted. Funny how Michelle Wie can turn pro at 13, Freddy Adu at 14, Sydney Crosby can play NHL hockey at 16, but predominantly African-American men who want to pursue their careers upon reaching adulthood are told they need more maturation? This is a policy that the League hopes negative stereotypes about African-American men will help sustain. Think I'm over the top here? A Spanish guard, Ricky Rubio, will be the same age as Tyler will be (18) when he is chosen as a lottery pick in June. The NBA rule does not apply to foreigners. Seriously. Only Americans. The NBA is discriminating against American players, giving opportunities to Europeans that are denied to Americans, all the while they want you to believe they are doing what's best for the kid. Right.

First off, you cant play in the NHL until you're 18. Its the same way in all 4 major professional sports. Comparing the NBA to sports like golf and tennis and soccer is ridiculously stupid. There's no comparison.

Second, I don't want to turn this into some long discussion over the racism of the current system or whatnot, that's not the point. I think that the fact a double-standard exists when it comes to European players is ridiculously stupid, and something that Stern really needs to get a handle on in the next CBA. Just like the fact that in MLB, 16-year old kids from the Dominican can sign for millions of dollars, but all high school kids in the US and Puerto Rico have to wait until 18 to enter a draft that limits their compensation based on where they're selected. Its insane, but at least people are recognizing the problem and (hopefully) taking steps to correct it. At least they are (or will be) in baseball.

I really don't see the age standard in terms of a racist lens at all, actually. Like MCI and others have stated previously, it benefits the NBA to have their young rookies develop a brand and some cache with a year or more of college ball, being on ESPN/CBS/etc, being talked about online, yada yada yada. You can't look at guys like Kevin Durant and tell me that a year of college basketball was not beneficial to him as an overall brand - that doesnt even include the benefits he gained as a player, both physically and mentally. The history of high-school players making the leap to the NBA is checkered, at best. Its littered with far too many failures to say that system ever worked properly. While there having been some incredible successes (Garnett, Bryant, Howard, to name a few), that doesn't justify the myriads of kids who threw away their talent because they listened to the wrong people.

And while you can say that the NCAA and NBA doesn't have these kids best interests at heart in this policy, I think that you're wrong. And I dont think that's being racist.

[FromTheBeginning]

This might well appeal to the "prep school" kids who are having trouble qualifying for college and have rwal interest in going to class. It is also another potential area for kids to be taken advantage of by overzealous parents and "advisors' who are willing to "sell" the kids to potential agents for a quick windfall. Has Worldwide Wes applied for his passport yet?

[harwoodhoya]

Use the baseball rule! Allow them to turn pro after high school but if they decide to go to school then they should have to wait until their junior year I believe. I disagree with Sonny and the parent in this situation. If he is bored in high school than his coach schedule harder or transfer him to a different school. Is he that good? I feel if 'Lebron" played four years in high school than anybody can.

[harwoodhoya]

Also what goes around come around Pitino!

[tpk3]

harwood--good point. i was also wondering if stern/NBA will go the MLB route.

[NCHoya]

I think this is exactly the outcome the NBA wants, they will likely increase the age minimum to 20 and more kids will go the Euro Pro route. The NBA then will get a better chance to assess who the real players will be in its league and also who can handle the rigors of pro ball, not an insignificant question when dealing with a 19 year old and few million dollars invested.

From a CBB fan's point of view, I am not going to say I like it, but I think it is actually the right thing to do for one and done kids if they are up to the challenge of playing with professionals overseas. The culture change cannot be played down, these kids will not be respected by their teammates or coaches. Look at jennings, the kid starts one night and is benched the next, meanwhile he is hoping his paycheck actually arrives within a few weeks of when he is supposed to be paid. The US is big on rules and litigation, you go somewhere else and things get a little more free and loose. The kids that choose this route must be able to handle that.

This is a reason why I see this becoming a trend but not in big numbers, I would think we would only see 2-3 prospects a year take this route because of the inconvenience of living in Europe and the desire to play college ball for a season against most of the guys you grew up with on the AAU circuit. College is still pretty fun, especially if you know you will only be there a year and need to pass only two classes in one semester. Money is always an issue but if you lived for 18 years without it, the decision will be made how important that one more year is to you and the family.

[IDenj]

why not a system like junior hockey where a kid can get drafted at 18, and if he isn t good enough for the nba, send him to college for a year or 2 of seasoning. let all high school kids be open for the 1st round and be "placed" back into college where they verballed/signed with the nba team picking up the cost of school, as well as a development fee to the program.

this way a kid can get drafted and see if he is really ready, the pro teams can take their time developing kids, kids go to school and are closer to a degree/see there are other options in life. plus ncaa schools are able to keep some kids. sure they miss out on a duran, oden or a rose. but other kids will be returned.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

This doesn't hurt them that much. They still have well over a year to fill that spot since the kid was only a junior. At least he didn't pull a Riley and he gave the coaches a full recruiting season to figure it out.

[alexd]

Apr 23, 2009 7:36:19 GMT -5 rambis said:

The NBA age limit is the most ridiculous rule ever enacted. Funny how Michelle Wie can turn pro at 13, Freddy Adu at 14, Sydney Crosby can play NHL hockey at 16, but predominantly African-American men who want to pursue their careers upon reaching adulthood are told they need more maturation? This is a policy that the League hopes negative stereotypes about African-American men will help sustain. Think I'm over the top here? A Spanish guard, Ricky Rubio, will be the same age as Tyler will be (18) when he is chosen as a lottery pick in June. The NBA rule does not apply to foreigners. Seriously. Only Americans. The NBA is discriminating against American players, giving opportunities to Europeans that are denied to Americans, all the while they want you to believe they are doing what's best for the kid. Right.

The 19 year old minimum age DOES apply to international players the same as it does U.S. players. The only difference is, the US players high school class must have graduated 1 year prior to the draft.

The formula is such: You subtract 19 years from the year of the draft. If the player was born in that year or earlier, he's eligible for that year's draft. Rubio was born in 1990.....Tyler is only 17 right now. He won't turn 19 until 2010.

[rambis]

_{I really don't see the age standard in terms of a racist lens at all, actually. Like MCI and others have stated previously, it benefits the NBA to have their young rookies develop a brand and some cache with a year or more of college ball, being on ESPN/CBS/etc, being talked about online, yada yada yada. You can't look at guys like Kevin Durant and tell me that a year of college basketball was not beneficial to him as an overall brand - that doesnt even include the benefits he gained as a player, both physically and mentally. The history of high-school players making the leap to the NBA is checkered, at best.}

What is absolutely breathtaking in this debate is the extent to which some people patronize African-American athletes assuming they are incapable of acting in their own self interest. Tell me, in what other sport does an athlete need to "benefit mentally" well into his adult years to be deemed worthy of a chance to pursue his professional career?

Some have expressed here that Kevin Durant benefited "physically and mentally" from his year in college. How does anyone here know that? He dominated his opponents physically in the college games he played. He didn't bulk up in his year at Texas. He didn't need to. And he benefited "mentally"? Really? What incredible insight does anyone have into Durant's mental state to suggest that he needed additional maturation? So, you can read his mind?

What's remarkable here is the conflation of what's important to the NBA with what's best for the player. It has been suggested that "it benefits the NBA to have their young rookies develop a brand (in college)." This thinking misses the point entirely. A player's primary concern is not making the league better, it is earning a salary (much like the rest of you do in your own jobs). And if a player is good enough, they will brand themselves - see Kobe, Lebron, Amare, Garnett.

Why not admit that you're viewing this issue through the prism of the fan's self-interest, making value judgments based on what's best for you, not the athlete. This makes your condescension easier to maintain. After all, you know every high schooler has handlers, sycophants, and leeches so he can't be expected to make decisions for himself, right?

[SFHoya99]

Rambis, the thing is...in Jeremy Tyler's case, it is true about his immaturity and the handlers.

I'm sure Durant could've handled straight to the pros -- although I believe he's said the year in college helped him.

It's a case by case thing. LeBron obviously had no issues on or off the court. Michelle Wie seems like she might've benefitted from a slower course.

I'm all for legally allowing folks to turn pro -- I don't think there's validity to the NBA's rule. That said, the NBA cares about their product, that's why it exists. And the NBAPA is looking out for existing NBA players, not future or potential players, so it isn't going to disagree unless someone gets principled about it.

I like the age limit as a fan of the NBA, actually dislike it as a fan of Georgetown (frankly, the more years a player has to stay in college, the more years UNC and Kansas win National Titles), and think it is probably illegal. It'll deprive some folks of money, and help some other players in their career.

[bmartin]

Baseball is different. It has an extensive minor league system that develops players over several years. No one goes directly from high school to the major leagues and almost no one goes from college directly to the major leagues. MLB teams draft hundreds of guys every year that no one believes will make the major leagues, but the real prospects need full teams to play with and against while they develop.