|
Post by tpk3 on Apr 22, 2009 21:05:42 GMT -5
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2009 21:39:14 GMT -5
This will end up being a blessing. He'll end up with someone like Josh Smith instead, who will have all of the talent and none of the headcase.
|
|
|
Post by theprince on Apr 22, 2009 21:43:14 GMT -5
Yeah, just read the Rivals article myself... sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=dw-tyler042209&prov=yhoo&type=lgnsNot sure about the rest of you but after watching the Real Sports on Brandon Jennings it didn't seem like he was living the dream he had imagined. I realize Tyler seems to have a much stronger support group but the idea of a 17 year-old heading overseas like that is going to be tough in my opinion. Take into consideration the the different style of game played and all the cultural differences time will tell if this becomes a trend. While all the talk about the draft this year has been about how weak it is Jennings draft position/success/failure could have a huge impact on the future of college basketball. Wow have times changed...
|
|
|
Post by gtowndynasty on Apr 22, 2009 21:52:07 GMT -5
Wow. I am not mad at this decision. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe this will push the NBA to remove the age requirement, maybe not. But I cant blame TYler for trying to find another road to success. He is turning 18 in June so he really should be graduating this year. I think his Dad had a great point in that if young kids can go to the military or work a job, why shouldnt they be allowed to become professional athletes. THey can in every other sport! More power to Jeremy.
|
|
|
Post by tpk3 on Apr 22, 2009 22:08:36 GMT -5
it will be intereting to see if, when, and how the NBA responds.
|
|
kghoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
|
Post by kghoya on Apr 22, 2009 22:11:28 GMT -5
maybe basketball will just end up like soccer at some point
kids are plucked from south america and africa and sent over to europe at very young ages
|
|
vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
|
Post by vcjack on Apr 22, 2009 22:15:18 GMT -5
Wow. I am not mad at this decision. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe this will push the NBA to remove the age requirement, maybe not. But I cant blame TYler for trying to find another road to success. He is turning 18 in June so he really should be graduating this year. I think his Dad had a great point in that if young kids can go to the military or work a job, why shouldnt they be allowed to become professional athletes. THey can in every other sport! More power to Jeremy. If anything the age requirement is going to be moved UP to 20 years in the new labor talks next year. The owners/managers likes having college/Europe as a way to separate the Lebrons from the Kwame Browns and the players union would like for there to be more money in the pot for veterans. In the battle of what's fair and what makes money, money wins. And here's a general question, can anyone speak for how popular these European basketball teams are? In a time when things like the Arena League are falling apart due to no interest, I can't imagine that these European leagues can continue to exist if no one in Europe cares.
|
|
|
Post by tpk3 on Apr 22, 2009 22:21:50 GMT -5
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2009 22:26:35 GMT -5
Why would the NBA respond?
The reason for the age limit is to force players to play a higher and more structured level of competition so they are more easily and accurately evaluated.
It also makes sure the players mature a bit (or exposes them as immature), helps teams see how they respond to coaching and makes sure NBA teams are forced to break them in young and immature.
Europe may be a preferable option to college for the NBA in that respect, except live scouting is a lot more expensive.
I'm with vcjack -- this is fine from an NBA point of view. I bet they raise the age limit.
(Tyler is reportedly a headcase, so this may end up a real shock to him. That said, if he doesn't want to go to college, this is a pretty good move. Two extra years of earning and much MORE teaching. The risk is not enough gameplan and frankly, you have to grow up quick because a pro coach won't take a tenth of crap that a college coach will).
Lastly, how well basketballwise has Jennings done? I don't ask this from Jennings' POV, I ask from the team's. Is someone like Tyler going to be able to command a million, even at 7'?
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,143
|
Post by RBHoya on Apr 22, 2009 22:41:10 GMT -5
A lot of people will rip this, but the idea of kids this age playing for pay is not unusual in just about any other sport. Sure sending them to another continent makes the adjustment a lot more difficult. But still, if you're 17 and you could go live in Europe for a couple years, make a ton of money and play basketball all day, wouldn't you? People will harp on the usual stuff like needing an education, a degree, yada yada yada. Kids like Jeremy Tyler are going to make their bread from hoops, one way or another. He's not going to get an office job if the NBA doesn't pan out. Going this route will give him 2 years of sound income and he'll learn the Euroleagues. Then he can take his shot at the NBA. If it works, great, if not, he'll just stay where he is, and he's got 2 years worth of income+interest in the bank. A ton of other players will finish high school, go to 4 years of college and not make a dime, and then end up playing right next to Tyler. Worst case scenario for Tyler (he doesn't make the NBA), he ends up in the same place as all those guys who are the same age as he is, but he's got 5 more years worth of money than they do. To me, this is a pretty good move.
The next step, I think, is that you'll see an American coach go over to Europe and get a job coaching a team.... probably some former NBA coach. That way kids who decide to skip college (or the end of high school) can get coached by someone who knows what he's doing and who can prepare them for the NBA, but still get paid at the same time rather than wasting time going to classes they'll never need. I think once more kids start taking this route, you'll see the process smooth out some. It was somewhat bumpy for Jennings, but he was the trail blazer. Ultimately I think you'll start to see a handful of kids in each class make this choice, and they'll probably congregate on the same couple of teams over in Europe, and those teams will have the support system in place to help them make the transition and to prepare them for the NBA.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2009 22:58:04 GMT -5
I think the biggest issue for most of these kids is not the culture shock, it is that most of them aren't good enough to get a ton of playing time in top leagues overseas.
It will be interesting when the first real can't-miss prospect goes overseas to see if the NBA reacts at all.
|
|
vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
|
Post by vcjack on Apr 22, 2009 23:04:51 GMT -5
A lot of people will rip this, but the idea of kids this age playing for pay is not unusual in just about any other sport. Sure sending them to another continent makes the adjustment a lot more difficult. But still, if you're 17 and you could go live in Europe for a couple years, make a ton of money and play basketball all day, wouldn't you? People will harp on the usual stuff like needing an education, a degree, yada yada yada. Kids like Jeremy Tyler are going to make their bread from hoops, one way or another. He's not going to get an office job if the NBA doesn't pan out. Going this route will give him 2 years of sound income and he'll learn the Euroleagues. Then he can take his shot at the NBA. If it works, great, if not, he'll just stay where he is, and he's got 2 years worth of income+interest in the bank. A ton of other players will finish high school, go to 4 years of college and not make a dime, and then end up playing right next to Tyler. Worst case scenario for Tyler (he doesn't make the NBA), he ends up in the same place as all those guys who are the same age as he is, but he's got 5 more years worth of money than they do. To me, this is a pretty good move. The next step, I think, is that you'll see an American coach go over to Europe and get a job coaching a team.... probably some former NBA coach. That way kids who decide to skip college (or the end of high school) can get coached by someone who knows what he's doing and who can prepare them for the NBA, but still get paid at the same time rather than wasting time going to classes they'll never need. I think once more kids start taking this route, you'll see the process smooth out some. It was somewhat bumpy for Jennings, but he was the trail blazer. Ultimately I think you'll start to see a handful of kids in each class make this choice, and they'll probably congregate on the same couple of teams over in Europe, and those teams will have the support system in place to help them make the transition and to prepare them for the NBA. I agree, particularly because I think this helps college basketball by separating people like Tyler who would have been a student athlete in name only from people like Greg who want at least some college education (and the groundwork for an eventual degree) before moving on to the pros
|
|
|
Post by tpk3 on Apr 22, 2009 23:08:18 GMT -5
well guy like brandon jennings and tyler going overseas is b/c of the NBA' age limit rule. more will probably follow suit. i don't know if this bothers the NBA/stern....but i do not believe they intended the rule to cause this.....if more and more elite kids go to europe they may do something...don't know what....or they may do nothing. right now Stern has gone on record that he want to bump up the age limit to 20--which would only encourage more kid to go to europe.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2009 23:18:23 GMT -5
Brandon Jennings didn't really go overseas because of the age limit.
He went overseas because of the age limit AND because he didn't qualify for college. If he had been able to play, he'd have been at Arizona this year.
Even a player like Mayo -- who I doubt had much interest in class at all -- went to college rather than Europe. Europe is a giant pain if you are one and done. (And while the money is nice, remember all these kids think they are getting paid even more a year later -- and they are mostly right).
Making it two and done could change some things.
|
|
|
Post by tpk3 on Apr 22, 2009 23:44:56 GMT -5
good points SF and RB. i agree about jenning's academics playing a role.....that is another disturbing trend- if kid see europe as a way out of working on their grades/education. i know jennings has had problems in europe but lately has been trying to make his decision seem like a good one.....the key will be how he does in NBA next year. if he does well we could see more kid jumps. kids like john wall and demarcus cousins may not want to deal with SATs or even HS classes senior yr if jennings/tyler are succesful.....and that's how it would/could start. we'll see.....the age limit rule is fairly new and we are just starting to see how a couple kids are dealing with this......also can never underestimate sonny vacaro.
we'll see. if more kids follow suit i wonder if the NBA will care.
|
|
Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
|
Post by Buckets on Apr 23, 2009 1:16:00 GMT -5
This isn't going to become a trend. Most guys aren't good enough to cut it in Europe coming out of high school. If you're a good guard, you can cut it. But among bigs, most 18-year-olds aren't developed enough to play against professional players who have several more years of physical development. Even if they're more skilled, they just don't have the strength yet. There aren't a lot of 6'11, 260 pound high school juniors kicking around.
It's in both the NBA and the elite players interest to play college ball in the United States. Part of the reason the NBA likes the age limit is that most high draft picks come in as household names already: Oden, Durant, Rose, Beasley. Dwight Howard was a #1 pick, but he didn't come into the league with the same recognition from the average fan as all of those other guys. And this makes the players more marketable as well.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Apr 23, 2009 2:32:22 GMT -5
Yeah the Hoyas, UNC and everyone else was looking at him. But his handlers made it clear that he wanted to be compensated wherever he played before going pro. So only Patino, Calipari, Floyd... continued to recruit him. Patino is just juggling to much these days (LOL).
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,522
|
Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2009 3:10:23 GMT -5
Wow. I am not mad at this decision. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe this will push the NBA to remove the age requirement, maybe not. But I cant blame TYler for trying to find another road to success. He is turning 18 in June so he really should be graduating this year. I think his Dad had a great point in that if young kids can go to the military or work a job, why shouldnt they be allowed to become professional athletes. THey can in every other sport! More power to Jeremy. Oh, God. This same old argument again. Football players aren't allowed to go pro until after they completed at least three years in college and no one complains. Businesses all across the country require workers to have college degrees before hiring them even though there are people in high school who can do the job as well as any college graduate. Again no one complains. But whenever the NBA even thinks of an age limit all the human rights activists come running out of the closet. This move by Tyler proves to me more that David Stern was right. This scenario is one that I had been tossing around on message boards for years every time somebody complained about Stern putting in place a rule to prevent players jumping immediately from their senior year in high school to the NBA. The pro right to work crowd would argue that is was unfair for the NBA to tell a player he had to go to college. My argument was that the NBA didn't force a player to go to college; the players had other routes such as going overseas. Sure enough Jennings proved my point by showing that that was an option (though in my view the majority of players who went that route were not going to get contracts a since as Jennings). Another point that I made was that even if Stern did not seek to stop players going directly from graduating high school to being drafted by NBA teams, what would stop kids from thinking that high school itself should be skipped? What if some hyped player didn't want to bother with his senior year? What then? What if a player didn't want to "waste time" with his junior year or even sophomore year but instead thought it'd be best if he finds some league in some country that will allow him to develop as a 15 year old while being plaid? What if such player wanted to skip high school altogether? Well, aren't we seeing all this take place now? So when does it end? Should Stern step aside and let freakin' six graders who are ranked high by recruiting sites get drafted by NBA teams and then placed in development leagues even though they are children? My answer to that is no. The NBA can't allow that to happen just because some players don't want to go to high school or because some parents want to see "their investment" take fruit much more quickly. Screw them. If those folks want to go overseas and take their chances then so be it. I'm guessing most will be worst off for it. And I'm sure there isn't nearly enough money or interest in Europe or other foreign locations for this to become a big trend. NBA needs to stand its ground. Fro all indications Stern is looking to make it TWO years a graduated high school player must wait before declaring for the NBA draft. More power to him. Absolutely. The NBA is having rtrouble right now thanks in part to a generation in which players skipped college altogether or spent such a short time in school that the average fan never got a chance to know them. Outside of LeBron James no one gets so much hype in high school that the average sports fan knows their name. LeBron was special. If every high school kid got his attention then the league loses that benefit of that special quality and the hype that goes along with it. The league needs more players to stick around in college and grow as both players and people IMO. For the minority that want to go overseas and play that's okay too. But they have less likelly of a chance dominating overseas than they do in college basketball, and that could hurt their draft status. Also the kids who do well in college have the better chance at immediate endorsements at their arrival in the NBA than their foreign-route counterparts.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,522
|
Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2009 3:13:58 GMT -5
Tyler is reportedly a headcase, so this may end up a real shock to him. Not only is he reportedly a headache, his family and "friends" are worse. Yeah, these are the type of folks the NBA should cave in for.
|
|
theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
|
Post by theexorcist on Apr 23, 2009 4:21:58 GMT -5
The NBA can do what they want re: an age limit.
This is not going to become popular. Most potential recruits won't be able to survive the culture shock, and EuroLeague teams aren't really interested in developing a player for a year only to have him jump to the NBA.
The discussion of Sonny Vaccaro making a team of top recruits and barnstorming around the country has no chance, either - the economic collapse just dried up sponsors.
|
|