jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 8, 2009 9:08:25 GMT -5
The thing i am worried about is that the Cap-Pens play TOMORROW night as well (thanks NBC for putting that first game on saturday!!).
There has been rumblings that Varlamov may not be able to recover over night because he plays so "athletically." I think that is BS, he is 21, if i can be out drinking until 3 am and wake up 5 hours later with a massive hang over and still write a "quality" ten page paper, the kid should be able to play back to back. If they have to be Theo back in I wont be too upset but i dont know how the Crowd at verizon will take it, Booing your starting goaltender before the game even starts is not a good way to win a game.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 8, 2009 10:13:46 GMT -5
Wow, really? I didn't know that. That is ridiculous. Both teams should be [edited] about that scheduling.
Not only back-to-back days, but travel from Pittsburgh to Washington as well. That's just dumb.
Now, to your point, jgalt, yes, these are professional athletes and they should be able to recover. NHL teams play back-to-back nights many times during the regular season. What's more, in this instance, both teams will have to deal with the same level of fatigue, so there's no unfair advantage either way.
But that doesn't mean it's not plain dumb for the league to do this. This is the playoffs. You want your teams at their best, fully rested for each game (particularly two teams who feature your two most prominent stars).
What happens if the Caps and Pens play three overtimes tonight?
Stupid NHL, stupid.
And, am I to understand that NBC is not broadcasting ANY playoff games this weekend? Not that it matters to me but what the hell? Like your network has anything else you show on TV that anyone watches, ever. What, you've got a Notre Dame pre-season special airing or something?
OK, so it's the Players Championship and you've got Tiger and Phil. Fine, I can accept that (even though both of them are completely duffing it up so far and probably won't even be in contention on Sunday -- to which I say to NBC in my best Nelson Muntz voice: "HA-ha!"). Why not show an NHL game in prime time? Do you think anyone at all ever watches Dateline?
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on May 8, 2009 10:29:10 GMT -5
fair enough ... It is actually ok to have a difference of opinion, and I will also admit that you have a point, in so much as if you "always" boo, then it probably has even less effect on the mentality of the refs, much like complaints from some players have weight while complaints from others don't. On Edit: I do object to jgalt's suggestion that basketball has an inherant grey area while hockey does not. When is it "charging" and when is it not ? (talking about hockey) When is it a clean check, where the opponent happens to get pinned against the board and when is it "boarding?" Hooking/slashing etc... ok, those are pretty clean cut, but there is still quite a lot of contact that can be viewed differently. You can also argue quite a bit between "interference" and fortuitously, being in the right spot at the right time. In fairness, I have certainly voiced my disapproval before only to see a replay and realize that it was actually a clean block. Who hasn't? I used to ref hockey (very badly), so I'll try to clear things up. There is a lot of grey area in the hockey rules. About 10 seconds into my first game as a ref, I realized that there about a dozen potential penalties every minute in hockey. You get a bunch of little kids out there, they all swing a the puck, miss, and hit the other kid's shins. Slashing? If you call that, you'll have more people in the box than on the benches. The general standards for a penalty in hockey is that the action has to give an unfair advantage or be unsafe. So if the defender hooks a forward and the forward doesn't even notice it, it probably won't be called. But if the player loses the puck because of the hook, then the ref's arm goes up. The safety penalties like high sticking are a bit more black and white - if the ref sees it, it gets called (2 minutes for no injury, 4 minutes if it draws blood). Pinning another player against the boards is not boarding, and as long as the puck is there it's usually legal. If the puck moves away it's interference, and if you use your wrap your free arm (i.e. the one not holding the stick) around the player then it's holding. Boarding generally comes when you check a player who's standing a couple feet from the boards, causing him to fall hard into the boards. It's usually called for safety reasons. The general rule for charging is that you're allowed to take 2 strides before you hit a guy. It's always best if you glide into a player, but 2 strides are allowed. Charging is also called if you leave your feet while checking. After the lockout the NHL issued a new set of standards for the penalties. The unfair advantage threshold was lowered significantly, so a lot of minor stuff that would have been let go before was now called. Most of that had to do with the 'obstruction' penalties - hooking, holding, and interference. Hope this helps some. Reffing a hockey game is a heck of a lot harder than it looks.
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whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on May 8, 2009 10:51:17 GMT -5
Well, I was about 5 minutes away from coming on here and writing about how the Hawks needed the same sort of personnel makeover the Wings got between getting throttled by the Devils in '95 and waxing the Flyers in '97, they were crazy if they were thinking seriously of re-signing Havlat to a long-term deal, and they should think about trading Patrick Kane if he keeps taking "intelligent and tough play" lessons from Alexei Yashin and they could dump a bad contract with him. Then, of course, Havlat gets some space and beats Luongo with a wrister, Khabby makes a couple saves, and Ladd deflects one into the net in overtime. With that kind of result, I can better appreciate that, despite the lack of offensive flow, they did largely carry the play, severely limit the Canucks' chances, and break through a strongly organized defense often enough to win the game. Being tied 2-2 isn't where I'd hoped the Hawks would be, but it's a darn sight better than the down 3-1 I expected about 115 minutes of hockey in Chicago.
And at least back-to-back games in the playoffs are fairly unusual now. If memory serves, there used to be a lot more of them back when ESPN was controlling the schedule. Thank goodness for the Western Conference and travel times.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 8, 2009 13:26:38 GMT -5
fair enough ... It is actually ok to have a difference of opinion, and I will also admit that you have a point, in so much as if you "always" boo, then it probably has even less effect on the mentality of the refs, much like complaints from some players have weight while complaints from others don't. On Edit: I do object to jgalt's suggestion that basketball has an inherant grey area while hockey does not. When is it "charging" and when is it not ? (talking about hockey) When is it a clean check, where the opponent happens to get pinned against the board and when is it "boarding?" Hooking/slashing etc... ok, those are pretty clean cut, but there is still quite a lot of contact that can be viewed differently. You can also argue quite a bit between "interference" and fortuitously, being in the right spot at the right time. In fairness, I have certainly voiced my disapproval before only to see a replay and realize that it was actually a clean block. Who hasn't? I used to ref hockey (very badly), so I'll try to clear things up. There is a lot of grey area in the hockey rules. About 10 seconds into my first game as a ref, I realized that there about a dozen potential penalties every minute in hockey. You get a bunch of little kids out there, they all swing a the puck, miss, and hit the other kid's shins. Slashing? If you call that, you'll have more people in the box than on the benches. The general standards for a penalty in hockey is that the action has to give an unfair advantage or be unsafe. So if the defender hooks a forward and the forward doesn't even notice it, it probably won't be called. But if the player loses the puck because of the hook, then the ref's arm goes up. The safety penalties like high sticking are a bit more black and white - if the ref sees it, it gets called (2 minutes for no injury, 4 minutes if it draws blood). Pinning another player against the boards is not boarding, and as long as the puck is there it's usually legal. If the puck moves away it's interference, and if you use your wrap your free arm (i.e. the one not holding the stick) around the player then it's holding. Boarding generally comes when you check a player who's standing a couple feet from the boards, causing him to fall hard into the boards. It's usually called for safety reasons. The general rule for charging is that you're allowed to take 2 strides before you hit a guy. It's always best if you glide into a player, but 2 strides are allowed. Charging is also called if you leave your feet while checking. After the lockout the NHL issued a new set of standards for the penalties. The unfair advantage threshold was lowered significantly, so a lot of minor stuff that would have been let go before was now called. Most of that had to do with the 'obstruction' penalties - hooking, holding, and interference. Hope this helps some. Reffing a hockey game is a heck of a lot harder than it looks. Thanks for the insight. I actually learned something there on the technical level. To clear things up, in case there's any doubt, I never meant to imply that reffing hockey (or any other sport for that matter) is easy. In fact, I think I was arguing the opposite point by saying that even though there are defined "rules," infractions such as interference, charging and boarding are at least somewhat subjective. Your comment about giving an unfair advantage is also spot on, and probably makes reffing even harder. There are 2 NBA refs who live here at the Gainesville Golf and Country Club. One is Dave Jones (Smith? ... no, I think it's Jones) and one other and I have heard them interviewed on the local sports shows. They each said that Shaq was one of, if not the hardest player to ref. They said that he would take contact that would knock 90% of the rest of us on the deck, but wouldn't phase him. Similarly, when he would "back you down," the contact could dent a hummer. What do you call? They said that the underlying principle was just what you mentioned, and that was what made it tough. If there was a turnover, then they were more obligated to make the call. But if not ... incidental contact. I guess that principle is true in most sports. "Pass interference" or just "going for the ball?" Hand checking or just good tight defense? Interference or just good positioning? I guess some things are more similar than they are different.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on May 8, 2009 13:56:46 GMT -5
Interference and good positioning usually don't clash. The tough judgment calls with interference are late hits vs. finishing checks and deciding whether the player hit was involved in the play or not. A player doesn't have to have the puck to be involved in the play - I've seen hits pretty far from the puck that were legitimate non-calls on interference.
Just getting in a guy's way usually isn't interference. A common example are when a forward dumps a puck in, and a defender goes to chase it. It's pretty common for one of the defender's teammates to go skate in front of the forward, slow down, and zigzag to stay in his way, thus slowing the forward down and giving the defender time to play the puck. It's called puck support. As long as the defender's teammate has his back to the forward and keeps skating towards the puck (even at reduced speed), it's fine. However, if the defender's teammate turns around and pushes the forward away, then it's interference.
So passive good positioning isn't really close to interference in hockey. You have to actively do something that impedes the other player.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 8, 2009 14:02:10 GMT -5
You have to actively do something that impedes the other player. Or, if you're Marc Savard, you can just blindly crash right into the opposing goaltender when the puck is about 60 feet away from you because you forgot to look where you were going. My many problems with Game 3 aside, that was a pretty funny moment. ;D
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on May 8, 2009 17:01:31 GMT -5
Goalie interference is completely different, but it opens up another can of worms as far as players getting pushed into the goalie and such. Here's some more info on why the Caps and Pens are playing on back to back nights: sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2009/news?id=4152756The Caps are blaming it on Mellon Arena.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 8, 2009 18:36:01 GMT -5
Goalie interference is completely different, but it opens up another can of worms as far as players getting pushed into the goalie and such. Here's some more info on why the Caps and Pens are playing on back to back nights: sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2009/news?id=4152756The Caps are blaming it on Mellon Arena. DANE FRICKIN' COOK??? Man, Yanni's bad enough, but that's just unforgivable. ;D
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 8, 2009 21:03:27 GMT -5
So varly is human. Theo got pulled for three softies, will Varly? Still, the caps played only about 30 min tonight and it was working, but playing like crap for the rest of the time will lose you a game. The top lines need to figure out how to crash the net. There are so many times where they only get two guys into the zone and miss collecting the rebounds. very frustrating.
must make up for it tomorrow
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 9, 2009 19:15:59 GMT -5
[posting this just after Ovie fired a laser in from the blue line to tie]
Well, with Boston on the brink of spitting the bit (show some balls, guys, come on!), I think I need to point out what an incredible treat it is to be able to watch Alexander Ovechkin and Sidney Crosby play hockey.
I am just awestruck at how good those guys are every time I see them play.
I know jgalt doesn't want to hear it, but I really hope that series goes seven games. I don't want it to end.
I'm still hoping Boston can pull off a miracle here, but if they don't, I think I have to root for the winner of this series to win the Cup, no matter who it is.
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on May 9, 2009 22:13:59 GMT -5
I know I'm late on this re-scheduling deal, but remember when Caps fans thought Georgetown games were intrusive? At least we cleaned up after ourselves and let the pro club play later in the evening. I guess you get more clout when you are 1993 World Music Award winner for Best-Selling Greek Recording Artist of the Year.
This incident proves what I suspected about the DC sports scene: there is none. Nats Park is half empty on a Friday night and afternoons. The fabled "Redskins waiting list" doesn't really exist (http://deadspin.com/5234208/the-legendary-redskins-ticket-waiting-list-that-doesnt-exist). The only two times I've seen the Wizards the house has been packed, but that's because Obama and LeBron were the main attractions the two times I went. VC wasn't full until the Caps started winning.
There is no way this incident happens in New York, Boston, Philly, Detroit, or even LA. What a disgrace. Instead of having a premier Mother's Day afternoon matchup (I have many fond memories of watching the playoffs during a family get-together), we're stuck with no hockey until 5 PM. It's a travesty.
I see also that the Caps got the loss tonight. Serves them right.
On Edit: I removed the article link b/c The Stig already posted it. I also added my rant about DC sports.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 9, 2009 23:25:32 GMT -5
I know I'm late on this re-scheduling deal, but remember when Caps fans thought Georgetown games were intrusive? At least we cleaned up after ourselves and let the pro club play later in the evening. I guess you get more clout when you are 1993 World Music Award winner for Best-Selling Greek Recording Artist of the Year. This incident proves what I suspected about the DC sports scene: there is none. Nats Park is half empty on a Friday night and afternoons. The fabled "Redskins waiting list" doesn't really exist (http://deadspin.com/5234208/the-legendary-redskins-ticket-waiting-list-that-doesnt-exist). The only two times I've seen the Wizards the house has been packed, but that's because Obama and LeBron were the main attractions the two times I went. VC wasn't full until the Caps started winning. There is no way this incident happens in New York, Boston, Philly, Detroit, or even LA. What a disgrace. Instead of having a premier Mother's Day afternoon matchup (I have many fond memories of watching the playoffs during a family get-together), we're stuck with no hockey until 5 PM. It's a travesty. I see also that the Caps got the loss tonight. Serves them right. On Edit: I removed the article link b/c The Stig already posted it. I also added my rant about DC sports. It was Pittsburgh who had the Yanni concert, the only thing scheduled at the Verizon Center since April 14 has been hockey.
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on May 10, 2009 0:27:03 GMT -5
D'oh. I am an idiot. That's what I get for hearing things second-hand. I was under the impression that it was the VC that scheduled it. Criticism of DC as a sports town still stands though. I know I'm late on this re-scheduling deal, but remember when Caps fans thought Georgetown games were intrusive? At least we cleaned up after ourselves and let the pro club play later in the evening. I guess you get more clout when you are 1993 World Music Award winner for Best-Selling Greek Recording Artist of the Year. This incident proves what I suspected about the DC sports scene: there is none. Nats Park is half empty on a Friday night and afternoons. The fabled "Redskins waiting list" doesn't really exist (http://deadspin.com/5234208/the-legendary-redskins-ticket-waiting-list-that-doesnt-exist). The only two times I've seen the Wizards the house has been packed, but that's because Obama and LeBron were the main attractions the two times I went. VC wasn't full until the Caps started winning. There is no way this incident happens in New York, Boston, Philly, Detroit, or even LA. What a disgrace. Instead of having a premier Mother's Day afternoon matchup (I have many fond memories of watching the playoffs during a family get-together), we're stuck with no hockey until 5 PM. It's a travesty. I see also that the Caps got the loss tonight. Serves them right. On Edit: I removed the article link b/c The Stig already posted it. I also added my rant about DC sports. It was Pittsburgh who had the Yanni concert, the only thing scheduled at the Verizon Center since April 14 has been hockey.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 10, 2009 17:14:22 GMT -5
On a non-playoff hockey note, Russia defeats Canada 2-1 in Bern to repeat as World Champs. The Swedes beat the US 4-2 to take the bronze. The gold medal game was a rematch of last year's final in Quebec City, which Russia won in OT 5-4 on a shot from Ilya Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk really stepped his game up in this year's tournament and took home overall MVP honors.
The game itself was really pretty strange. The first period was very even, with Canada scoring first on a Shane Doan's very nice pass of a rebound across the crease to a streaking Jason Spezza, who stuffed it into the open goal. Russia got the goal back on slapshot that was deflected in front of the goalie coming on a power play, thanks to the Flyers Braydon Coburn inexplicably flinging the puck into the crowd and earning a delay of game. Shots on goal in the first was even at 10-10.
And after that, it seemed like Canada spent most of the rest of the game on the attack. They finished with 30 SOGs to Russia's 17 - the Reds didn't even record their first shot in the 2nd until 10 minutes in. It looked like they were playing not to lose, which rarely works, especially when you're, you know, tied. The game-winner came when Coburn tried to pinch in and failed at the Russian blue line and Russia got a two-on-one the other way. Alexander Radulov, formerly of (and, technically, still contractually obligated to) the Predators took it himself and made a sweet move to evade the defender and put it past the Oilers' Dwayne Roloson.
The rest of the game played out about the same, with the Canadians playing more aggressively, getting more shots and opportunities, and generally looking like they were dictating the game. The difference was that the Coyotes' Ilya Bryzgalov pretty much played like the reincarnation of Tretiak. He was by far the MVP of the game. The Russians also did a very good job of placing their bodies, sticks, skates, etc. between the puck and the goal - the number of shots directed toward the net was far higher than the 30 official ones.
Kovalchuk had kind of a quiet night statistically, probably because he got double-shifted and ended up playing 30:33.
As always, the bigger ice and tighter rules made for a game that looked much more coherent and organized, although the Canadians still did a lot of dump-and-chasing. Amusingly (for me, anyway), the IIHF online feed showed the Russian TV interviews with the players at the intermissions. They weren't as good this year, but last year they were quite entertaining. I rememebr thinking last year that it was obvious Kovalchuk played in the NHL and had already had to learn how to talk to the media; he was extremely articulate. One of the players this time around sounded like he had an IQ of 80 - clearly a KHL player who hasn't done too many interviews.
Best moment: when the crowd showed three female Canada fans wearing giant yellow hat-like things that said "Canada, Eh?" on them.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 11, 2009 13:28:19 GMT -5
.....And punishment by blindfold and dartboard continues: Scott Walker gets a $2,500 fine and no suspension. Ummm, sure. That's fair. Gary Bettman, Colin Campbell....WOW you guys are just doing such a great job, I'm speechless.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 11, 2009 19:34:50 GMT -5
This Pens-Caps series remains ridiculous. It would be a crime not to get a game 7.
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azarin
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Post by azarin on May 11, 2009 20:04:06 GMT -5
This game is insane ... Just when the pens had me worried, the Caps score two goals in about a minute. Well done. Let's not have an OT this time!
Edit: so of course, we're headed to overtime...
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 11, 2009 21:16:58 GMT -5
awesome
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on May 11, 2009 22:34:36 GMT -5
Vancouver v Chicago has been insane. 4 goals in the span of 4 minutes. It's now 7-5 Chicago with 3:43 left. I wouldn't be surprised with anything that happens in the final minutes.
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