Jack
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Post by Jack on May 7, 2009 14:00:19 GMT -5
YES, MANNY BEING MANNY!! ;D ;D ;D (I am a Giants fan) Sounds more like Manny being Barry. Some (Bill Simmons, Manny's #1 fan, among them) have speculated in the past that Manny was too dumb to use steroids effectively. Without question, I am not surprised that he was not smart enough to avoid getting caught. I, for one, am just pleased to know that he, along with all of his teammates, was 100% clean during his time in Boston and only got into this stuff once he came under the sway of Joe Torre.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on May 7, 2009 14:34:54 GMT -5
YES, MANNY BEING MANNY!! ;D ;D ;D (I am a Giants fan) Sounds more like Manny being Barry. Touche, haha, well-played. Although Barry was never suspended, because he never tested positive for banned substances. (ducks)
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 7, 2009 14:36:59 GMT -5
This like A-Rod is a big shock to me. I like Manny as a player/hitter--and don't care for A-Rod--as everyone knows-but I thought BOTH were clean. Just release the rest of names now-it's a damn embarrassment and everyone is shamed in the sport. Let them all taste their medicine.
Hell for all we know Manny could've been using when he was with Albert Belle and company in Cleveland.
Big Papi will be next up--he was one of the biggest offenders out there.
The names of the Black/Latin players sure get out there don't they? Guess the Jeff Bagwell's are safe from scrutiny.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on May 7, 2009 14:39:20 GMT -5
The only thing that makes me sad about the Manny case is that it makes the Sox look smart by comparison and that's a bad thing. Everything else about it is fantastic. Bet the Dodgers are feeling real smart right about now. It's not fantastic - it's horrible. There's some Onion article about how (I think) Lance Berkman, when all is said and done, will come out of the steroids era as the best player. Really, I don't think anyone is clean right now. It just kind of makes you sick.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 7, 2009 15:05:30 GMT -5
The only thing that makes me sad about the Manny case is that it makes the Sox look smart by comparison and that's a bad thing. Everything else about it is fantastic. Bet the Dodgers are feeling real smart right about now. It's not fantastic - it's horrible. There's some Onion article about how (I think) Lance Berkman, when all is said and done, will come out of the steroids era as the best player. Really, I don't think anyone is clean right now. It just kind of makes you sick. Greg Maddux and Ken Griffey Jr. I'd like to add Vlad to the list, but I have a sneaking suspicion that that might just be a matter of time.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on May 7, 2009 15:13:05 GMT -5
The only thing that makes me sad about the Manny case is that it makes the Sox look smart by comparison and that's a bad thing. Everything else about it is fantastic. Bet the Dodgers are feeling real smart right about now. It's not fantastic - it's horrible. There's some Onion article about how (I think) Lance Berkman, when all is said and done, will come out of the steroids era as the best player. Really, I don't think anyone is clean right now. It just kind of makes you sick. Craig Counsell, actually. www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/turns_out_craig_counsell ;D
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 7, 2009 15:20:09 GMT -5
I think Tony Gwynn and Frank Thomas were clean as well.
I wouldn't assume about Berkman.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 7, 2009 16:04:48 GMT -5
SF, I would think Gwynn for sure, but I consider him sort of before the steroid era. Frank Thomas .... I don't know, but he very well might have been. I saw him when he played for Auburn and he was already absolutely huge, so he certainly didn't have a Bonds-Esque physical explosion. I would say probably not on Thomas, but not with the confidence that I would Maddux, Greiffey and Gwynn.
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ichirohoya
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Post by ichirohoya on May 7, 2009 18:29:31 GMT -5
As a fan of another AL East team, I hated Ramirez as a member of the Red Sox. Couldn't stand him. But, as heaven is my witness, I sure loved watching him bat. Even when he was torching the Orioles, he was some kind of talented. Today is a sad day.
Maybe its just paranoia kicking in, but I find myself starting to fear that if more names come out, the one name which I hold sacred above all else may show up on a list...
...Ripken.
What does it say about the times in which we live that i have to worry that the hero of my childhood was a cheat?
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 7, 2009 20:08:30 GMT -5
Frank McCourt set this whole thing up to save $8 million. He figured that with the Dodgers off to such a great start, and the division being so lousy, they'll still have a comfortable lead when Manny returns. Of course, watch, now the home winning streak will end tonight at the hands of the Nationals. And I assume that comment about Manny being clean until he started playing for Torre is a joke.
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Post by redskins12820 on May 7, 2009 22:26:49 GMT -5
Frank McCourt set this whole thing up to save $8 million. He figured that with the Dodgers off to such a great start, and the division being so lousy, they'll still have a comfortable lead when Manny returns. Of course, watch, now the home winning streak will end tonight at the hands of the Nationals. And I assume that comment about Manny being clean until he started playing for Torre is a joke. That's really funny you should mention McCourt and saving his money because my first thought when this thing broke was that McCourt would go into a deep depression. I was unaware that McCourt would not be responsible for Manny's pay. I thought maybe it would be some program where the player "makes" the money but then it gets funneled into some MLB charity/organization.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 8, 2009 10:25:38 GMT -5
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 8, 2009 11:59:14 GMT -5
Good luck to Dave Roberts, another player I have a soft spot for, from both his Dodger and Red Sox days (but not Giants - blotted that out). I had no idea he was such a natural as an announcer. Getting back to ManRam, McCourt is actually only saving a bit over $3 mil as a result of the way Manny's contract is back loaded. This is not a good thing for the Parking Lot Attendant. As I was driving to work this morning, I passed a big billboard promoting the Dodgers, about half of which was Manny's image. We'll see how long it takes for those to come down. The one thing this pretty well assures is that Manny will be with the Dodgers next season. If no team would give him a multiyear deal at $25 mil per during the last offseason, what are the chances now of a team doing that during the next offseason?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 8, 2009 14:30:03 GMT -5
Anyone see Plaschke on Baseball Tonight ranting?
The guy is okay with Kobe cheating on his wife, doing something wrong in Colorado, etc.
He's okay with the fact that he was a sportswriter throughout the steroid era and didn't do his job.
But he's foaming at the mouth at Manny.
Dude's a cheater. Fine. Suspend him and move on. But let's not pretend there aren't twenty other Dodgers doing the same thing.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on May 8, 2009 14:52:30 GMT -5
As I said before in previous threads, I just can't believe how poorly MLB has managed the steroid issue.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on May 8, 2009 16:00:55 GMT -5
I've been posting this with my fantasy league and elsewhere and wondering what others thought. Although Simmons is a Sox fan, he illustrates the anger and apathy a lot of us have with MLB right now. My family is collectively not going to any games this year because of it. The rant: We always talk about the tangible effects of the Steroids Era (it screwed up the numbers historically, compromised the competitiveness of the games and tainted some of the nicer memories we had as fans from 1990 to 2007), but the underrated effect was the realization that some of our greatest players were scumbags. Should we have realized this after the Pete Rose scandal? Yeah, probably. But look at some of the greats from the past 50 years. Rose lives in Vegas and spends his days betting on horse racing. Barry Bonds seemed like a truly awful person even before he let his buddy rot in jail for him. Clemens was willing to sell everyone out, even his wife and friends, to try to keep his name clean. Mark McGwire doesn't have the decency to admit that he cheated. Neither does Sammy Sosa or Raffy Palmeiro. A-Rod lied in 2008 on national TV, then lied about the lie. There are 103 names from that 2003 random drug-test list still out there, only none have the balls to come out and say, "You know what? I'm probably on there and I'm ashamed of what I did." And when you think about how many All-Stars cheated over the past two decades -- is the number 70 percent? 75 percent? 80 percent? -- the unwillingness of the commissioner's office and the player's union to apologize publicly or admit any culpability whatsoever is really staggering. Why is Bud Selig still the commissioner? THIS HAPPENED ON HIS WATCH! Why is Gene Orza still running the players' union? THIS HAPPENED ON HIS WATCH! Everyone's collective "apology" this winter seemed to be, "Let's move on, it's spring training, the World Baseball Classic will be fun, fantasy baseball is starting up ... no use crying over spilled milk." Ask yourself this: Do you feel like the players, union leaders, owners and executives even feel bad about what happened? Because I don't feel like they do. And it makes me kind of hate baseball.Just wanted to re-quote the first post in this thread, b/c it didn't receive much attention on Page 1, but seems more relevant this week. Selig has done some good things for the league, but as long as this issue dominates the headlines (which it will this year, and next year, and the following year...) he looks like an idiot. Time for someone new, at least from a simple public relations perspective. ON EDIT: Speaking of MLB and public relations, is there any doubt the phrase 'post steriod era' is being peddled by the league? How dumb do those three words look together in light of Manny's doping?
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on May 8, 2009 16:02:35 GMT -5
Big Papi will be next up--he was one of the biggest offenders out there. Not too sure about this one. People like to say this because of how much better he got in Boston, but he always had freakish strength. He just couldn't hit a fastball up and in and everyone knew this was where to pitch him. Closed the hole in his swing once he got to Boston. Didn't have the most power even at his peak in Boston -- that was Wily Mo Pena who really just can't hit a curveball.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 8, 2009 16:40:19 GMT -5
Big Papi will be next up--he was one of the biggest offenders out there. Not too sure about this one. People like to say this because of how much better he got in Boston, but he always had freakish strength. He just couldn't hit a fastball up and in and everyone knew this was where to pitch him. Closed the hole in his swing once he got to Boston. Didn't have the most power even at his peak in Boston -- that was Wily Mo Pena who really just can't hit a curveball. Sure. ;D Believe what you want--Ortiz has also been proactive when his agent was caught with HGH in Canada--and he thought it was going to get out--and he's been pretty adamant supporter of A-Rod. Thing is--A-Rod hasn't talked--someone like Manny is crazy enough to start throwing names around if he gets unnerved. Ortiz as a light hitting/slap hitter in Minnesota and Tom Kelly couldn't stand him. He leaves, and becomes a terror. HGH/PHD testing becomes stronger/more prominent--and Ortiz not only sees dramatic drop in numbers-he gets injured immediately. Big Papi is as guilty of using junk as Manny--and I thought Manny was clean--so this one hurt--just as A-Rod's did--and I can't stand A-Rod but thought he was clean. Piazza, Bagwell, Thome, etc... will eventually get caught too. Let's face it the main reason MLB doesn't want the 103 other names out--it would absolutely kill their credibility as the big names on that list from all over the league would be numbing to naive fans--who are same that often pay to go to the games.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 8, 2009 19:07:00 GMT -5
Getting back to the fun and games department, ARoid hit a 3 run homer in his first at bat of the season.
Plashke has gone over the edge. He's totally lost the ability to address any topic without an enormous dose of emotionalism, and he's always in crisis mode.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 10, 2009 13:42:18 GMT -5
Joe Mauer is very, very good at hitting.
That is all.
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