Seriously? That just happened????

[rammajamma]

JTIII did not get suddenly stupid, after being suddenly brilliant. This was a melt-down from any perspective, but I have confidence that JTIII will figure this out in the off-season and get the wheels back on the bus.

Let's not all spazz out. I am upset too, but trashing the team and the coach wont help.

[kghoya]

the only way this season gets worse if if the terps crush the hoyas at comcast in the nit

[HoyaSC]

This season is so hard to digest. I know Thompson is a good coach, he's proved that to me the last few years. I really like the guy and feel a tremendous sense of loyalty to him for restoring our program.

But the team's collapse this season is troubling. It is hard to say "it is the players' fault," for not buying into the system, not being leaders, or any of the other accusations that have been leveled at the players..... it is hard to say this because these things are ultimately a coach's responsibility. And I don't want to throw all the blame on Thompson..... mostly because, well.... I just don't want to. But that isn't a very good reason.

[SFHoya99]

Mar 10, 2009 16:56:57 GMT -5 HoyaSC said:

This season is so hard to digest. I know Thompson is a good coach, he's proved that to me the last few years. I really like the guy and feel a tremendous sense of loyalty to him for restoring our program.

But the team's collapse this season is troubling. It is hard to say "it is the players' fault," for not buying into the system, not being leaders, or any of the other accusations that have been leveled at the players..... it is hard to say this because these things are ultimately a coach's responsibility. And I don't want to throw all the blame on Thompson..... mostly because, well.... I just don't want to. But that isn't a very good reason.

There's a very good reason not to throw this all on Thompson and staff. Because that's not what caused it.

Listen, I get all this "the buck stops here" stuff. Yes, Thompson has final decision on his staff, his players, etc. And that's all fine and wonderful when your main point out there is to assign blame and make a point.

What that POV is no good at is actually seeing drivers of results. The reality is that players are a huge part of winning and losing -- the biggest part. Coaches are immensely important as well, but pretending that somehow a coach should be perfect in his evaluation of all players, work ethic, etc., is ridiculous.

I'd never blame the losing completely on the players, whether in their conscious actions or simply in lack of development or execution. But to simply say "It's the head coach's fault..." Well, you never really fix anything that way, do you? You just keep getting new coaches and hoping the next one is better.

[HoyasAreHungry]

i just have no idea...

[nodak89]

I just am dumbstruck.

From 12-3 to 4-11 and not winning consecutive games since mid-January. uggh.

Well, it's a good thing I didn't skip my conference to watch THAT.
Guess I don't have to worry about finding an archive of the game.

[HoyaSC]

Mar 10, 2009 17:01:24 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Mar 10, 2009 16:56:57 GMT -5 HoyaSC said:

This season is so hard to digest. I know Thompson is a good coach, he's proved that to me the last few years. I really like the guy and feel a tremendous sense of loyalty to him for restoring our program.

But the team's collapse this season is troubling. It is hard to say "it is the players' fault," for not buying into the system, not being leaders, or any of the other accusations that have been leveled at the players..... it is hard to say this because these things are ultimately a coach's responsibility. And I don't want to throw all the blame on Thompson..... mostly because, well.... I just don't want to. But that isn't a very good reason.

There's a very good reason not to throw this all on Thompson and staff. Because that's not what caused it.

Listen, I get all this "the buck stops here" stuff. Yes, Thompson has final decision on his staff, his players, etc. And that's all fine and wonderful when your main point out there is to assign blame and make a point.

What that POV is no good at is actually seeing drivers of results. The reality is that players are a huge part of winning and losing -- the biggest part. Coaches are immensely important as well, but pretending that somehow a coach should be perfect in his evaluation of all players, work ethic, etc., is ridiculous.

I'd never blame the losing completely on the players, whether in their conscious actions or simply in lack of development or execution. But to simply say "It's the head coach's fault..." Well, you never really fix anything that way, do you? You just keep getting new coaches and hoping the next one is better.

I hope you didn't interpret my post as wanting to get rid of Thompson or anything remotely close to it. Not what I was trying to say. I was trying to convey a sense of frustration with the idea that Thompson does get some of the blame for this season. I'm a Thompson fan, will remain a Thompson fan for the foreseeable future, and as a Thompson fan, hate to admit that he shares some of the blame for this frustrating season.

[DanMcQ]

Simple. The 2008 Hoyas were a hell of a lot better than the 2009 Hoyas.

[SFHoya99]

Gotcha, GvlSC.

Thompson definitely deserves blame. But I just get frustrated with the illogical analysis done by some that things that were around when we were winning are obviously the problem.

[gtowndynasty]

Agree that the team does not deserve to go forward. It sucks because I feel for Jessie, but at some point you have to shut it down. THey are terrible. And they wont be better in a week. The last thing we need is to get bounced of the NIT (gosh that sounds awful) by an inferior team because our guys dont want to be there and they clearly dont. If you cant get pumped and excited about the BET and a chance to play yourself back into the dance, well then how can you be excited about the NIT!

Lets just shut it down and let the coaches begin recruiting heavily and potentially looking at implementing some different schemes that may fit our personnel better.

[coloradohoya]

Atrocious. Horrendous. What a waste of a year.

[hoyaboy1]

Mar 10, 2009 16:32:08 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

And that is why a lot of us don't understand why so many people seem to lay the blame 100% at Thompson and the players can do no wrong.

When you are analyzing a change in results (from winning to losing), you don't start with what was the same between the two scenarios, you start with what was different.

I'm not saying Thompson is blameless, but I'm not looking there first.

This argument would work better if Thompson had won with a variety of "cores," rather than just one. A coach's job is to win with all sorts of players, or to at least recruit ones that fit.

I'm not saying JTIII is a bad coach, is the main cause of this season's failures, etc. etc. But many of the problems we had this year - lack of development over the season, inconsistent and incoherent lineups, horrible play out of timeouts, players put in spots that aren't suited for, and so on - are the kind of thing a coach needs blame for.

Trust me, I could write a really long post focusing on the players too - but JTIII shouldn't be a sacred cow. I don't see how anyone could say he coached well this season.

[kghoya]

Mar 10, 2009 18:02:48 GMT -5 hoyaboy1 said:

Mar 10, 2009 16:32:08 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

And that is why a lot of us don't understand why so many people seem to lay the blame 100% at Thompson and the players can do no wrong.

When you are analyzing a change in results (from winning to losing), you don't start with what was the same between the two scenarios, you start with what was different.

I'm not saying Thompson is blameless, but I'm not looking there first.

This argument would work better if Thompson had won with a variety of "cores," rather than just one. A coach's job is to win with all sorts of players, or to at least recruit ones that fit.

I'm not saying JTIII is a bad coach, is the main cause of this season's failures, etc. etc. But many of the problems we had this year - lack of development over the season, inconsistent and incoherent lineups, horrible play out of timeouts, players put in spots that aren't suited for, and so on - are the kind of thing a coach needs blame for.

Trust me, I could write a really long post focusing on the players too - but JTIII shouldn't be a sacred cow. I don't see how anyone could say he coached well this season.

didnt he win at princeton and get them to the ncaa's?

thats another group

[SFHoya99]

Mar 10, 2009 18:02:48 GMT -5 hoyaboy1 said:

Mar 10, 2009 16:32:08 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

And that is why a lot of us don't understand why so many people seem to lay the blame 100% at Thompson and the players can do no wrong.

When you are analyzing a change in results (from winning to losing), you don't start with what was the same between the two scenarios, you start with what was different.

I'm not saying Thompson is blameless, but I'm not looking there first.

This argument would work better if Thompson had won with a variety of "cores," rather than just one. A coach's job is to win with all sorts of players, or to at least recruit ones that fit.

I'm not saying JTIII is a bad coach, is the main cause of this season's failures, etc. etc. But many of the problems we had this year - lack of development over the season, inconsistent and incoherent lineups, horrible play out of timeouts, players put in spots that aren't suited for, and so on - are the kind of thing a coach needs blame for.

Trust me, I could write a really long post focusing on the players too - but JTIII shouldn't be a sacred cow. I don't see how anyone could say he coached well this season.

As KG says, three conference titles at Princeton as well.

In fact, despite this season, still five conference titles in nine years. Which is not too bad.


I'm not saying it's inappropriate to lay blame with the coach. I just don't understand the few posters who feel the coach is obviously holding back these awesome players who would be incredible if they just played somewhere or for someone else.

People need to get over recruiting rankings fast.

[Bando]

Does no one besides me see the similarities between this season and UConn's 06-07 season?

[biggmanu]

I need to VENT.....NO I DON'T MIND.....I prefer it!!!

Everyone on this team deserves a share of the blame. They played idiotic. Moronic passes. Ridiculous fouls...Frustration fouls...Terrible game and clock management...Lack of heart...Lack of discipline...and lack of physicality. SJU doesn't have a single top100 player but they had heart and hustle something our team has lacked all year. Yes, we are talented and we can shoot lights out on any given night. But when you lack the ingredients listed above you're going to disappoint.

As for JT3...I love the guy. I have nothing but faith in him. But he still hasn't been around long enough to determine whether he is indeed a "good" coach. Yea he brought us back to where G'Town basketball needs to be. He will demonstrate how good he is if he can take a sour season and turn it into something good...by recruiting the right players and persuading them to commit after a frustrating season. *And as a side note...what is with the puppy dog face mickey-mouse Bull S. Get fired up...your the coach...inspire your team during important stretches of the game. Your demeanor rubs off on your players. And get in someone's face if you draw up a play and they don't execute it, but instead shoot a 3 from the corner and miss it by 3 ft behind the backboard.

As for the players...
Nikita - get real...your lucky to even be on the team. How dare you take that shot away from DaJuan, Austin, or Wright. I can't believe they gave Nikita the start. Should have been Sapp all the way.

DaJuan - I've been following this guy for years since he was in the 9th grade. I can't explain how such a talent can be so stupid and just a turnover machine. Early fouls is one of the easiest things to correct. But game after game the same stupid stuff. You only have 1 more year to prove that you can rebound, handle the ball, and drive...otherwise you might want to start thinking about something other than playing in the NBA.

Wright - You can do it all. I wish you the best in running this offense for a couple more years. I want the ball in your hands at the end of the game. Just play with some control. And know when to slow it down.

Freeman - You can't get taller, but you can get faster. I love your game and how you can finish your layups. Also, we have to get your mid-range shot into the mix for next year's offense.

Monroe - Stay in school. Do what Zo, Ewing, Dikembe, Sweet, and Othella did and stay in school. Its a good model to follow. You can be the next greatest thing to come out of Georgetown. If you go I will understand.

Sims - So much potential. I wish you had played more this season and I wish you had more minutes with Greg on the floor too. Please don't get frustrated with this season. I know you will bulk up and be the best 3pt shooting big guy in the land in a couple years. Work hard, build confidence, and dominate next year.

Clark - I love this guy. Definition of a spark plug. But when you make lazy passes it ruins everything. And your a guard...learn how to dribble. Get a grip...and a handle. I expect big things from you.

Omar - nice to know you but I think you'll be better off somewhere else.

Vaughan - I hope you stick around too.

Sapp - God Bless. Thanks for the memories.

[hoyarooter]

This season spiraled into an unmitigated disaster. There is plenty of blame to go around, among the coaches and players.

I think this is the most disappointing season I can remember, and I go back to pre-Pops. Esherick's final year was depressing, but everyone knew the team would be lousy. Sweetney's junior year was extremely disappointing, because we were an eyelash away from making the dance, with one more easily obtainable win in a number of games that we let get away.

But this year was worse. Unlike some, I never expected this team to be great, but I certainly thought they would be midpack in the conference and be dancing. But somehow, after the Duke game (and I don't blame that game), the JT-III led well oiled machine broke into 1000 pieces flying off in every direction. I don't know that I can remember a team anywhere that had so many individual talents go so wrong. I don't think there is a single player on this team that exceeded expectations this year, and the two veterans saw their games completely disintegrate (and on that note, best of luck, Jesse - you deserved better).

Think about this - at the end of the season, we were worse than St. John's, worse than Seton Hall, and more or less on a par with Rutgers and DePaul. Even DePaul won a game in the BET (and good for them). That's more than we can say.

[Frank Black]

This is certainly inexplicable and troubling on a number of levels. I think there is enough talent on this team, but they just never got comfortable after mid-January. JTIII just couldn't communicate with the team to get them to run an offense, not THE offense mind you, but AN offense. It was Esherick's offense for the most part, toss the ball around the perimeter and hope for the best.

As for metrics, does anyone know how many turnovers a game we had this season compared with last? FG percentage? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but you have to figure they both jumped up.

[superan]

Mar 10, 2009 18:20:19 GMT -5 Bando said:

Does no one besides me see the similarities between this season and UConn's 06-07 season?

yeah, i've said the same thing.

[royski]

Mar 10, 2009 18:20:19 GMT -5 Bando said:

Does no one besides me see the similarities between this season and UConn's 06-07 season?

I do, I also see some differences though. This team got markedly worse in comparison to it's peers as the season went on. That wasn't really the case with that UConn team, they just didn't play anybody so they started off hot by out-athleting teams. This team beat a great UConn team and a great Memphis team early, and by March looked like an NIT bubble team. There are similarities, but it's not the same season, and I don't think we've laid the same type of groundwork for future success as they did. I hope I'm wrong.