Changes Going Forward

[Buckets]

While it's certainly not panic time, what changes do you think the Hoyas need to make going forward? Considering that our entire team was outrebounded by one player today, and outside of our top two rebounders the rest of the team gathered exactly three rebounds, I don't think we can simply go forward playing as we are and just "trying harder for rebounds." I think something needs to be addressed between playing time or some minor tweaks to philosophy.

I put together the stats from our five games against what I would call "real competition" this year (Tennessee, UMCP, Memphis, UConn, Pitt) to help illustrate a few points here.

	Min	FGM	FGA	3PM	3PA	FTM	FTA	ORB	DRB	AST	TO	STL	BLK	PF	PTS
Wright	36.4	4.2	9.6	0.4	2.4	3.4	4.2	0.0	2.0	3.2	1.2	1.4	0.0	2.6	12.2
Freeman	35.6	4.6	9.4	0.6	2.8	3.8	4.8	1.4	4.4	1.8	2.4	0.8	0.2	2.0	13.6
Summers	32.4	5.6	10	2.4	4.6	4.8	6.2	1.0	2.8	1.6	2.2	1.2	0.8	2.8	18.4
Monroe	31.4	4.8	8.8	0.4	0.6	4.2	6.2	1.4	4.2	2.4	2.4	1.6	1.2	2.2	14.2
Sapp	29.8	1.8	6.4	1.0	3.4	1.0	1.6	1.4	3.0	1.8	2.4	1.2	0.6	2.2	5.6
Clark	13.2	1.2	2.4	0.4	1.2	0.8	0.8	1.0	1.4	0.4	0.6	0.4	0.2	1.8	3.6
Wattad	12.0	0.8	2.4	0.8	2.2	0.0	0.0	0.4	1.0	0.6	1.0	0.0	0.0	1.6	2.4
Vaughn	8.2	0.6	1.4	0.0	0.4	0.4	0.6	0.6	0.2	0.2	0.8	0.0	0.2	1.6	1.6
Sims	3.4	0.2	1.2	0.0	0.4	0.0	0.0	0.4	0.2	0.0	0.4	0.0	0.2	0.4	0.4

The problem isn't depth - we made a final four run with what was essentially a six-man rotation, and got roughly this amount of bench minutes.

1: I'd like to see Vaughn, Sims, and Clark get more time (temporarily, at least to see if somebody can show us something) at the expense of Sapp. How will Sapp react to getting his minutes reduced? I don't know, but it's hard to imagine he could possibly play worse than he is right now. Clark's per-minute stats are better than Sapp's in almost every category. Sapp played a valuable role as a ball-handler last year with Wallace. His role just isn't as valuable this season.

2: I'd like to see Vaughn paired with Monroe more. Vaughn it seems has primarily been used as a sub for Monroe, and he's been terrible. He has 1 defensive rebound in 41 minutes in these 5 games. Read that over again and let it sink in for a second. This is actually almost unfathomable for a man of his size. The role he's being used in has been completely and utterly ineffective so far. I think he'd do better as a complementary big man rather than being asked to play center. Maybe he's still learning the offense, but something needs to be changed here.

3: We need to force more turnovers considering our obvious rebounding deficiencies. I put this third since it's significantly more complicated and not something you can simply make happen. I think getting some of these subs I suggested in would allow our guys to get more rest, and maybe allow us to press, which I would have liked to have seen against Pitt.

[hoyaboy1]

Good post. Also notable is the terrible 3 point shooting outside of Summers, and Wright being the only player with an A/TO ratio greater than 1.

[kellycpcm]

I agree with what you are saying. I have been harping all season that Julian should play with Greg for 5 minutes each half. Everyone on the boards pound me on that point. GT III did the same thing to Vern last year as he is doing this year with Julian. Neither one is a true 5, they are both fours. They need to play with a 5 on the floor. Billy G is training Vern to be a four down at Florida.

We appear to only recruit one center at a time. The other powers recruit more. I know we lost Riley for next year, but we need to have a steady stream of centers through the program.

I agree that Jason needs more time. He is our best guard on the boards with his long arms. He also gets good position on everyone when goes to the paint.

Side comment: It appears the refs today don’t know what 3 seconds is. We were counting from the middle of the first half how long the PITT bigs were in the paint. There were many 8 and 9 seconds

[RockawayHoya]

Great post, freemoney. A few thoughts:

1) I think you bring up a very valid point that the importance of Sapp's ball-handling has been somewhat diminished, because Wright doesn't need as much help breaking a press as Wallace did. The one thing that would hurt us at this point by cutting Sapp's minutes is his work on the boards. We're already hurting for any kind of rebounds, and taking our best rebounding guard off the floor won't help matters. I would like to see Clark get more PT, though. Perhaps run a similar lineup like Nova used to, with 4 guards/small forwards and one big (Monroe). If we're going to get killed on the glass, we might as well do it with our best offensive players (Clark > Vaughn/Wattad/Sims).

2) Great point that has already been touched upon in several earlier threads, but one that's worth revisiting. Only problem with this idea is that who spells Greg? Sims had one good possession today, but I still don't think he's ready to play extensive bench minutes yet to make this a viable option. But you're entirely right: Julian has been nearly worthless in terms of defensive rebounding against top teams. He's either slow to the ball, or can't grab it when he keeps his hands on it (and no, armbands are NOT the solution...). He's got to fix this problem.

3) We've never been great at forcing turnovers, as we've always focused on position defense. With a short bench, I'm not sure pressing would have been such a great idea, especially with almost all our starters already maxing out in terms of minutes. We're obviously not a good rebounding team at this point, but we at least have to be average. It's one thing to allow second chance opportunities, but we can't allow uncontested second chance putbacks. That more than anything contributed to Pitt's shooting 47% from the field today. I wonder what the shooting percentages on first shot attempts were compared to second shot attempts. I bet the numbers are staggering.

[summersshowers]

great post. thanks for compiling all this. i would agree that at this point III should consider playing clark as much as/more than jessie, at least until jessie plays through this slump. if omar is getting minutes based on practice, why shouldn't jason get more minutes for outperforming the guys he backs up? also, i think this proves that against strong inside teams like pitt, we need to be a little more flexible with the lineup and fight size with size.

[NCHoya]

Jesse is my favorite player so I cannot say I agree with a decrease in minutes, however, any minutes Wattad is getting I would like to see go to Clark. I feel like that kid brings something unique to the game and Wattad just seems unsteady with the ball if he is not shooting it and a step slow.

I would also agree that playing Vaughn with Greg might help, but why should we believe Vaughn will suddenly play to his size. He seems to avoid physical contact, not sure if playing with Monroe changes this. I wish we could recruit a banger like Blair, but why would a powerful PF play for us? We play a finesse motion based offense. One thing bothers me though, we have 5 fouls to give, I would like to see at least more contact on those nearly uncontested put-backs. At least make them earn it.

Anyway, as for forcing TOs Rockaway is dead-on. We just do not have the horses to press and our position defense is pretty good, I would rather not tinker.

[sleepy]

While all of these are very valid points and great ideas, the main problem with our rebounding is we just weren't boxing out and going for the ball. Other games, like the Uconn game we were boxing and going for the ball, even the Memphis game we were doing it, Memphis was just too athletic to stop in that sense. This game we just stood around and waited. We had the height advantage, they just wanted it more. Some of the problems could be attributed to our defense, where we are switching and aren't in position. But I don't know how many time today Blair or Biggs or someone would go up for a contested layup, and no one would box the shooter and they would just get it back. We assume its going in and instead of turning and boxing the shooter, we stand and watch.
So while yes, all those things would help, in the end it really comes down to the players going to get the ball. If this team puts a concertive effort into it, which I have seen them do (Uconn and second half of Memphis), I know they can be an average rebounding team, which is all we really need with our defense.

[canissaxa]

One point to defend Julian a bit: He's rebounding 10.3% of the DR opportunities during his minutes (numbers from kenpom and excluding today's game). That's not great for a big man (he's only beating Wright, Clark, and Nikita on the team), so it's clearly something he needs to improve, but on the other hand, he's only a bit behind the best on the team (Sims at 13.7%). But I don't know that cherry picking a few games against our best competition to get a stat like 1 rebound in 41 minutes is tremendously insightful. And if Vaughn really is an irredeemable rebounding liability, I tend to agree more with Rockaway's first suggestion of playing a 4 guard lineup rather than expecting a move to PF to magically fix his rebounding numbers.

I'm 100% on board with others' points above that Clark should get more run than Omar. Jesse will play his way through this slump though. No need to throw Clark in over his head at the possible expense of team chemistry and morale by throwing Jesse under the bus for a few bad games.

Also agree that we're not going to be able to suddenly focus on generating turnovers at the expense of a very good positional defense mid-season.

[jerseyhoya34]

Interesting/constructive thread. Perhaps this response is not entirely constructive, but, as to rebounding at least, I am convinced that we have to recruit our way out of the problem. I like Greg as we all do, but he isn't the type who is going to routinely get you 10-12 boards. He seems to be a little light on his feet. Summers is a 3 playing the 4 due to roster changes over the summer, and he is a fairly poor rebounder (even though he brings a lot in other areas). Vaughn, unless he drops significant weight and gets better knees, is not the type who is going to develop significantly as a rebounder for BE competition. I say this even though I think the move to get him was important and needed to be done (after the fact). His play is below the basket, and he plays small for his size. I think Sims will develop, but he does not currently appear to be a banger in terms of his style and approach. So, long story short, I believe that rebounding will be a problem throughout the season. It may not show up in all games, but that won't mean the problem does not exist.

If we can't get a true HS senior, we should be able to find a JUCO. I was impressed by Mobolaji Ajayi on South Florida the other night. He was a JUCO transfer and was nothing extraordinary on the floor but good enough to give you points/boards/hustle.

I have some sense for WWPCD - What Would Pete Carril Do - as to the other problems, which may or may not be insightful here. Secondary lineup combinations seem to be a problem, so I agree with the thoughts here about thinking through other combinations with Clark particularly. But, Carril rarely made those kinds of adjustments mid-season, and I don't see much evidence of it in JT3 at Georgetown. The Pat/Freeman swap last year may be an example, but, perhaps that had as much to do with Austin as it did Pat. Regardless, both were quality players, so it had more to do with fit/chemistry/atmospherics as anything, I think. This season, any trade you make in terms of subbing out a starter results in significant drop-offs in talent at this time, with the exception of Clark, I think. The problem is that it isn't readily clear that he would bring something apart from some ad hoc boost with matchups that will help us to solve the weaknesses.

The Vaughn idea is well-conceived and deserves attention. It likely has been explored - JT3 seems to be an ideas guy. What I think you'd find is that he would gum up the offense a bit with Wright on the floor. If we're playing more half-court, I could see it, but our team needs to attack situationally this season - take opportunities as given by the defense. In a full court setting, Vaughn simply can't match the energy/hunger of the current starters or even Wattad/Clark. Maybe our half-court game could change, but the 4 spot has usually been occupied by a small forward or point forward type - a Bowman, Green, Summers, or Ewing. It is a key facilitating role in our half court game, but Vaughn seems to be more of a 4/5 tweener.

Anyway, my $.02.

[RBHoya]

Jan 3, 2009 19:17:09 GMT -5 Buckets said:

2: I'd like to see Vaughn paired with Monroe more. Vaughn it seems has primarily been used as a sub for Monroe, and he's been terrible. He has 1 defensive rebound in 41 minutes in these 5 games. Read that over again and let it sink in for a second. This is actually almost unfathomable for a man of his size. The role he's being used in has been completely and utterly ineffective so far. I think he'd do better as a complementary big man rather than being asked to play center. Maybe he's still learning the offense, but something needs to be changed here.

I see the point about Vaughn being ineffective and the stats back it up... however, I don't think putting him at the 4 is the answer. Yes it makes our lineup taller but I really don't think it makes us any better in terms of rebounding (or any better at all, really). I'm not trying to beat the guy up, but I just don't think he's ever going to be a great rebounder. He is not at all explosive getting off the floor, and his hands haven't looked too good either. Guys who are good rebounders are usually great athletes--either strong, bulky, tough athletes (like Blair or Craig Smith or somebody like that) or leaner/bouncier athletes (like Marcus Camby or somebody like that). Julian just doesn't seem to fit into either of those groups. He's got some cement shoes sometimes.

The scouting report on Julian coming out of high school was that he had some skills but wasn't a great athlete, wasn't a guy who was going to mix it up down low, and would rather hang out on the perimeter and shoot jumpers than get physical. This is probably the main reason that even though Georgetown was looking for a 4 man in '07 (Randolph and Hickson were offered), but a 6'8 top 150 big man playing in their backyard ended up at FSU.

Again, not trying to beat the guy up or anything, I am hoping he shows more on the boards in the weeks to come. But for right now I really haven't seen enough out of the guy to make me want to see him getting more than the bare minimum of minutes (ie giving starters a quick breather).

I agree with what you are saying. I have been harping all season that Julian should play with Greg for 5 minutes each half. Everyone on the boards pound me on that point. GT III did the same thing to Vern last year as he is doing this year with Julian. Neither one is a true 5, they are both fours. They need to play with a 5 on the floor. Billy G is training Vern to be a four down at Florida.

We appear to only recruit one center at a time. The other powers recruit more. I know we lost Riley for next year, but we need to have a steady stream of centers through the program.

To some extent I agree that it's kind of a shame, now that Riley is gone, that we are going to be so thin on competent bigs. We're Georgetown, we've produced some all time great bigs and have had frontcourt players go in the first round the last 2 years, a streak that's likely to continue... and next year we're looking at possibly having Julian Vaughn and Henry Sims as our starters and NOBODY to back them up. That's a bad, situation, for sure. And I know some stuff went down and hindsight is 20/20 (Riley, Braswell, Macklin, etc), but it's still a shame.

That said "Centers" are very hard to find. Look at the list of top recruits every year, and the number of true centers is very very low. Even a lot of the guys they list as centers are like 6'8 or so, which most people consider PF's. Really the only true center we've had since JTIII came on was Roy, who wasn't a III recruit. Even Monroe is naturally more of a power forward. Yes, Vaughn and Henry are both more natural at 4, but SOMEBODY has to play 5 when Greg sits, and those 2 are the only options on the roster. And since Vaughn is a little more game ready right now, he gets the nod. It's not so much a matter of Julian's development as it is a matter of team need. And as I said before, right now Julian hasn't shown me enough to want him to be out there any more than he has to be, which is those few minutes per game when we rest Greg. I'd rather up Clark's minutes than Julian's for sure, even though it won't really increase our team height.