Jack
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Post by Jack on Dec 24, 2008 14:11:22 GMT -5
The Yankees may be in a world of their own, but the Red Sox are too in a world a little bit aways from the Yankees. Then there is another world inhabited by the Mets, Angels and Dodgers that is a little bit a way's from the Red Sox. The difference between the Yankees payroll in 2008 and the second highest payroll (which, by the way, was not the Red Sox- they were 4th, behind the Tigers and the Mets) is $71 million, which is roughly the difference between the second highest payroll and the 21st highest payroll, and more than the payroll of 11 teams. No one is in the same galaxy as the Yankees- they have a huge advantage, but it still is not enough to guarantee anything.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 24, 2008 14:13:46 GMT -5
Baseball is no fun if the Yankees are not good enough to hate.
The really humorous thing is that, when all is said and done, the Yankees' gargantuan payroll of aging superstars is unlikely to push them past the Devil Dogs' payroll (that is less than a third the size). It will be a fight for the wild card again for the Bombers I'm afraid.
Who will go on the DL first? Damon? Matsui? Burnett? Cap'n Jetes?
Ya gotta love it.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Dec 24, 2008 15:06:59 GMT -5
Good news- baseball has a cap on what the Yankees can spend- it is called the 40 man roster, and it has actually worked to allow 2/3 of all teams to make the playoffs since the last time the Yankees won a World Series. No whinging from this BoSox fan- I would have liked Teixeira, but I still think the Yankees have some serious flaws and the Red Sox may still have better starting pitching, if Beckett bounces back and Lester is able to replicate last season's dominance. Yep---and I was NOT talking about the Sox fans I know or have seen here--strictly the ESPN or "B"SPN as I like to call the boys in Bristol and their "Funeral" they held yesterday. Money doesn't win games--it just buys attention/headlines.
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Hank Scorpio
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Post by Hank Scorpio on Dec 24, 2008 15:34:14 GMT -5
Is Holliday much of an upgrade over Bay? Why make the move? Ellsbury's bat is not very good, his 2007 postseason left him with a bit of a halo effect. I doubt the BoSox would worry about recruiting over him, so to speak, which is why I'd be curious to see if they pursue Holliday and Bay and make Ellsbury a 4th OF. the reds payroll is actually pretty high (74m) for a so called small market team. they have arroyo and harang both getting hefty raises this year, so i bet they trade at least one if not both in july. cordero was a horrible signing at 12m per. i think jason bay is a free agent after '09, so getting holliday won't be a problem. ellsbury is the red sox CF for the next 10 years. they are stuck with drew hoping he stays healthy.
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Hank Scorpio
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Post by Hank Scorpio on Dec 24, 2008 15:41:44 GMT -5
Maybe not now, but there's no denying the fact the Red Sox were in the Yankees galaxy when they won the World Series two times. There's no disputing the fact that only two teams, the Yankees and Red Sox, can get into insane posting fee bidding wars over guys like Jose Contreras and Dice-K. There's no arguing that Mark Teixeira was only taking two teams' offers seriously - Boston and NY - I'd imagine b/c he knows they both have the resources to compete and have shown the willingness to spend them (I can't blame him for eschewing Anaheim). YES and NESN are comparable in value. What you're starting to see now are Fenway Park's limitations revenue wise. The Yankees may be in a world of their own, but the Red Sox are too in a world a little bit aways from the Yankees. Then there is another world inhabited by the Mets, Angels and Dodgers that is a little bit a way's from the Red Sox. The difference between the Yankees payroll in 2008 and the second highest payroll (which, by the way, was not the Red Sox- they were 4th, behind the Tigers and the Mets) is $71 million, which is roughly the difference between the second highest payroll and the 21st highest payroll, and more than the payroll of 11 teams. No one is in the same galaxy as the Yankees- they have a huge advantage, but it still is not enough to guarantee anything.
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Post by HeartAttackHoya on Dec 24, 2008 17:19:03 GMT -5
Teixeira is now the highest paid 1b in the history of baseball. Curious to see where you guys rank him compared to the other 1b playing now. As for me, I have the following ahead of him:
Albert Pujols, Lance Berkman, Justin Morneau, Kevin Youkilis, Miguel Cabrera, Ryan Howard. Additionally, I dont consider him any better than Adrian Gonzales, Prince Fielder and only marginally better than Derek Lee or Carlos Delgado.
Before you guys start overanalyzing and giving day/night split stats etc, I want to preface this post by saying the above my perception. No econometrics or statistical quantitative analysis was done. Just want to hear opinions.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 24, 2008 18:05:42 GMT -5
Teixeira is now the highest paid 1b in the history of baseball. Curious to see where you guys rank him compared to the other 1b playing now. As for me, I have the following ahead of him: Albert Pujols, Lance Berkman, Justin Morneau, Kevin Youkilis, Miguel Cabrera, Ryan Howard. Additionally, I dont consider him any better than Adrian Gonzales, Prince Fielder and only marginally better than Derek Lee or Carlos Delgado. Before you guys start overanalyzing and giving day/night split stats etc, I want to preface this post by saying the above my perception. No econometrics or statistical quantitative analysis was done. Just want to hear opinions. Did you take any of those pesky numbers that record what happened on the field into consideration? Or is that list just by gut feel and what you saw (which was then recorded as a statistic)? And how does the fact that there's no way you saw them play all of their games factor into your list? Also, Ryan Howard struck out 199 times the last two years and has basically become a platoon player who is unable to hit lefties (.224/.296/.451 against them). He might be the worst player you listed.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 24, 2008 18:20:52 GMT -5
Also, top five first basemen by VORP last year (one of those pesky statistics)
1. Albert Pujols 98.6 2. Lance Berkman 73.1 3. Mark Teixeira 66.3 4. Kevin Youkilis 53.6 5. Justin Morneau 47.1
And I'd rather have him than Berkman because he's four years younger than the last Killer B (and doesn't play in a band box). I'd probably take Cabrera ahead of him (again, because of age), but his conditioning worries me. I would take him over Fielder, but that's because I don't see Fielder aging well and because Teixeira's a switch hitter. Morneau and Youkilis are probably a notch below him (and really, Youk should be playing third, where his value would shoot up).
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 24, 2008 18:38:35 GMT -5
Albert Pujols' next contract is going to be insane.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 24, 2008 19:01:32 GMT -5
Albert Pujols' next contract is going to be insane. Probably. Though he's signed through 2010 and the Cardinals have a 2011 club option, so he won't be a free agent until he's 32.
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njhoya06
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Post by njhoya06 on Dec 24, 2008 22:03:48 GMT -5
Teixeira is now the highest paid 1b in the history of baseball. Curious to see where you guys rank him compared to the other 1b playing now. As for me, I have the following ahead of him: Albert Pujols, Lance Berkman, Justin Morneau, Kevin Youkilis, Miguel Cabrera, Ryan Howard. Additionally, I dont consider him any better than Adrian Gonzales, Prince Fielder and only marginally better than Derek Lee or Carlos Delgado. Before you guys start overanalyzing and giving day/night split stats etc, I want to preface this post by saying the above my perception. No econometrics or statistical quantitative analysis was done. Just want to hear opinions. Did you take any of those pesky numbers that record what happened on the field into consideration? Or is that list just by gut feel and what you saw (which was then recorded as a statistic)? And how does the fact that there's no way you saw them play all of their games factor into your list? Also, Ryan Howard struck out 199 times the last two years and has basically become a platoon player who is unable to hit lefties (.224/.296/.451 against them). He might be the worst player you listed. Strikeouts are bad now?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 26, 2008 17:25:46 GMT -5
I'm confused. Don't wealthier people drive more expensive cars and have bigger, more expensive houses? If the Yankees were as profitable as they are and had a payroll the size of the Rays and I had to live in NY paying more for EVERYTHING than someone in say, Tampa or Kansas City or Minnesota or ANYWHERE other than maybe flippin' Tokyo, I'd be really ticked off. People in NYC are, generally speaking, wealthier than most other places in the country. That's why they pay 2G for a 600 sq. ft. apt. willingly as opposed to owning a large house somewhere else in the country. Don't you think that those fans want their team to reflect that level of waste and wealth and greed?
In any case, it has nothing to do with the Yankees. It's the MLB Player's Union. They're far stronger than any other union and any other sport. Hoffa's teamsters would be jealous. These FA's HAVE to get paid a certain amount. Why do you think C.C. couldn't accept 40 mil less if he wanted to? Have the money and hoard it for what reason if ANY team makes more on the postseason than they do on the regular season. Make the postseason and you just paid for the contracts the Yankees just took on if you're the Yankees. They are that profitable and that popular. It's good business sense. To NOT sign those guys and just let it ride on unproven younger talent that, regardless of minor league reports, the Yankees are sorely lacking (see Melky Cabrera, Brett Gardner, Ian Kennedy, etc., etc.) would be ludicrous. Tampa is good cuz they sucked for so long and got great draft picks. Not to mention money to lock up a couple of them courtesy of the luxury/New York Yankees tax. Be Editeded if the team you follow has an owner that doesn't want to invest in fielding a good product. Don't hate on owners that play within the rules and just do it better than other clubs. If I were a Met fan, I'd be really peeved. They're in the same market with the same opportunities as the Yankees in terms of revenue stream and don't spend MORE on payroll. If you're a small market fan, realize you're a small market fan. Expect that team to have less money and, thus, spend less money. Since when are professional sports supposed to be competitive anyway? It's a business. It's not the days when Yogi Berra and Mickey Mantle would take winter jobs in a men's clothing store. It's a business. Why do you think so many people love college sports and some, myself included, hate Memphis and their ilk as they upset what is supposed to be an even playing field. Pro baseball is a mess and it's because of the players' union. Show me a guy that's a CEO of a company and I'll show you a guy that isn't driving a Honda Accord. Show me a small town plumber and I'll show you a guy not driving a Rolls.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 26, 2008 17:36:29 GMT -5
Be Editeded if the team you follow has an owner that doesn't want to invest in fielding a good product. Don't hate on owners that play within the rules and just do it better than other clubs. If I were a Met fan, I'd be really peeved. They're in the same market with the same opportunities as the Yankees in terms of revenue stream and don't spend MORE on payroll. If you're a small market fan, realize you're a small market fan. Expect that team to have less money and, thus, spend less money. Since when are professional sports supposed to be competitive anyway? It's a business. No other team has the revenue that the Yankees do. The Steinbrenners aren't reaching in their own pocket to pay for these players (and neither is any other owner). And you should ask that last question to the folks that run the NFL, NBA and NHL. They seem to think professional sports should be competitive. Not too surprising, seeing as how the NFL is the clear #1 sports league in America.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 26, 2008 17:39:16 GMT -5
Again, it's the union. Is there a weaker union on the planet than that of the NFL?
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Dec 26, 2008 18:45:09 GMT -5
And you should ask that last question to the folks that run the NFL, NBA and NHL. They seem to think professional sports should be competitive. Not too surprising, seeing as how the NFL is the clear #1 sports league in America. I guess you can term it 'competitive' when there are mostly mediocre teams fighting it out for a playoff spot and then some really horrible teams that are embarrassing. I am kinda torn over the NFL though -- somewhat exciting to have all of these playoff spots come down to the last slate of games of the season, but there is just so much bad to mediocre footbal being played.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 26, 2008 19:38:57 GMT -5
And you should ask that last question to the folks that run the NFL, NBA and NHL. They seem to think professional sports should be competitive. Not too surprising, seeing as how the NFL is the clear #1 sports league in America. I guess you can term it 'competitive' when there are mostly mediocre teams fighting it out for a playoff spot and then some really horrible teams that are embarrassing. I am kinda torn over the NFL though -- somewhat exciting to have all of these playoff spots come down to the last slate of games of the season, but there is just so much bad to mediocre footbal being played. Hasn't that resulted this year from the divisional alignment? I honestly don't know if I can recall two worse divisions in the same season in the NFL than the AFC and NFC Western divisions this year. Talk about 8 totally putrid teams (well, perhaps the Chargers aren't putrid, but they pretty much played that way for 2/3 of the season). The Patriots could go 11-5 and miss the playoffs, so it isn't entirely that the teams are mediocre.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 26, 2008 20:45:54 GMT -5
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 26, 2008 21:40:34 GMT -5
DFW... obviously I overstated to make a point. However, that poll is f'ed in its scope. I was more specifically targeting NYC. Adding PA and parts of Jersey and Long Island certainly skew the results.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 8, 2009 8:43:13 GMT -5
Structurally, baseball is broken. I have been a baseball fan all my life, yet I find myself losing interest in the sport because of the competitive imbalance caused by the monetary imbalance. While I realize that many different teams have captured the WS title this decade, and the Rays appeared this year despite a relatively paltry payroll, I still decry the fact that some teams can spend so much more money acquiring talent than can others. One team I root for, the Red Sox, has benefited from its ability to spend. Yet I still wish that a better system could be devised. Despite the fact that the KC Chiefs sucked this year, within a year or two they could challenge for the title. The Royals, on the other hand...
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Hank Scorpio
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Post by Hank Scorpio on Jan 8, 2009 11:15:43 GMT -5
The union would never go for a salary cap, and the owners only way to force one would be to lockout the players. I don't see that happening, and, truthfully, the Yankees kind of got suckered as they signed 3 big free agent deals before anyone else made a big move; they signed deals according to the old market, before a significant market correction took place.
Look at contracts across the league, the big money deals have dried up. A guy like Bobby Abreu, whose contract did not look that bad last year at 16 mill, is probably going to end up making half that. I was not sure why so many teams declined offering arbitration to their FAs, but looking at it now, it was 100% the right move, as there was just a HUGE market correction. Supertsar types are going to get the big contracts, but the days of the Chris Benson's of the world getting 10 mill per are over...for now.
The last 2 years, the game was making more money now than it ever has. Internet revenues were sky high, and every team was benefiting from it. I'm curious to see how those revenues are affected now...I'm sure attendance will be down at a lot of ballparks this season, but people will still be following on the net and watching on TV, no?
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