Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 28, 2008 10:22:46 GMT -5
did Nancy Pelosi really say that Congress will be "more bipartisan" with larger Democrat Majorities?
Now there is an argument that she and Senator Reid could not be less bipartisan then they have already been, but please Madame Speaker lay off the Napa Valley White (or perhaps Panama Red).
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 28, 2008 10:41:37 GMT -5
Can anything really be less bipartisan than 2001-2006? I think she's right.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 28, 2008 10:45:38 GMT -5
I guess that if by bipartisan, she means that Madame Speaker will do whatever she wants in concert with Senator Ringside, then she's probably right.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Oct 28, 2008 11:10:10 GMT -5
Please, this coming from the woman that played a central role in derailing the first bailout bill -- a bill she favored -- by trashing the congressional republicans minutes before roll call.
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 28, 2008 11:12:42 GMT -5
Please, this coming from the woman that played a central role in derailing the first bailout bill -- a bill she favored -- by trashing the congressional republicans minutes before roll call. I give you John Shadegg :
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Oct 28, 2008 11:13:41 GMT -5
Sorry but if you are not going to vote on a bill that you think is right because you're crying over a speech made, you have no business being in congress.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 28, 2008 11:13:53 GMT -5
Can anything really be less bipartisan than 2001-2006? I think she's right. It's a republican press release, but facts are still right: the Democratic House allowed less input from the minority than the Republican House did. rules-republicans.house.gov/News/Read.aspx?id=169
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Post by williambraskyiii on Oct 28, 2008 11:17:11 GMT -5
Please, this coming from the woman that played a central role in derailing the first bailout bill -- a bill she favored -- by trashing the congressional republicans minutes before roll call. I give you John Shadegg : I agree that anyone who changed their vote as a result of Pelosi's stupidity should be ran out of DC on a rail. So "derailing" misstates my point. Her comments do reflect terribly poor judgment and a disinclination to "reach across the aisle" in times of crisis. She is probably more likely to perform the "reach around" than to reach across the aisle.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 28, 2008 11:24:22 GMT -5
Sorry but if you are not going to vote on a bill that you think is right because you're crying over a speech made, you have no business being in congress. And if you're the speaker of the house, you have no business bringing an important bill to the floor without knowing you are going to be able to pass it.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 28, 2008 11:25:05 GMT -5
She is probably more likely to perform the "reach around" than to reach across the aisle. Thanks for that image. I think I'm gay now.
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 28, 2008 12:47:24 GMT -5
Her comments do reflect terribly poor judgment and a disinclination to "reach across the aisle" in times of crisis. She is probably more likely to perform the "reach around" than to reach across the aisle. Oh please, I read the speech, it was pretty mild and I'm not seeing the poor judgement there.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Oct 28, 2008 14:03:22 GMT -5
Her comments do reflect terribly poor judgment and a disinclination to "reach across the aisle" in times of crisis. She is probably more likely to perform the "reach around" than to reach across the aisle. Oh please, I read the speech, it was pretty mild and I'm not seeing the poor judgement there. Oh please, I watched the speech, it was incendiary and completely unconstructive - pelosi has poor judgment written all over her uber-botoxed face.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 28, 2008 15:22:39 GMT -5
Oh please, I read the speech, it was pretty mild and I'm not seeing the poor judgement there. Oh please, I watched the speech, it was incendiary and completely unconstructive - pelosi has poor judgment written all over her uber-botoxed face. I certainly agree that she has horrible judgment. Say what you will about the GOPies voting against it based on a speech, but at the heart of the matter is a speaker who brought a bill to the floor for a vote with a tenuous, cobbled, hairtrigger majority and she decided to gloat a bit. Regardless of whether what she said was really incendiary matters not, the fact that she would even risk the bill's passage was unnecessary and unprofessional at a time of crisis. It belies her horrible judgment or, at best, her naivete. I fear her most of all in the coming administration. Somebody better check her, or we are in for yet another "overreach" by a majority party, leading to much gnashing of teeth and petty partisan politics. As my father-in-law opined last night over a long dinner, Obama will have an angel and devil over each shoulder in his coming administration. The angel will lead him toward the middle toward moderation and bipartisanship. The devil is Pelosi, and you know where she'll pull him. I have faith (though not rock solid) in Obama's integrity, but I won't be surprised if he bends. I'll be very disappointed, but not surprised. It will be a huge mistake and a costly one for the American taxpayer if he bows to the left end of the Dem party and embraces all the "reforms" they are pushing. More entitlement programs will only further bankrupt the next generation.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 28, 2008 15:42:50 GMT -5
Cambridge wrote:
I have faith (though not rock solid) in Obama's integrity, but I won't be surprised if he bends. I'll be very disappointed, but not surprised. It will be a huge mistake and a costly one for the American taxpayer if he bows to the left end of the Dem party and embraces all the "reforms" they are pushing. More entitlement programs will only further bankrupt the next generation.
Contrary to much popular belief, I do actually appreciate legitimate opinions from the other side, yours for example. That being said, I have heard several people suggest similar ideas as that which you have stated. Why exactly do you think ... or are so convinced that Obama will not go along with those "lefties" which you mention? In all honesty, I don't see the logic which would support the idea that he isn't "one of them" ... at least ideologically. The closest I see is that he isn't a "Washington Insider" ... at least not yet. But seriously, why are you so convinced that he isn't a typical liberal democrat? His voting record would certainly suggest that. If the left can harp on the fact that McCain voted with Bush 90% of the times, then it is reasonable to consider the Claims of Obama being "the most liberal Senator," based exclusively on his voting record.
Personally, I like what Obama has said about the family being the starting point. I like what he has said with respect to parents needing to take the lead with their children. Not that that is a "democrat" or "republican" position, but he does bring it up as a counter to simply throwing government money at the problem -- a view more associated with the political right. But aside from that, in virtually every other issue, he seems to be just another pie in the sky promiser from the left. Why do you think he isn't?
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 28, 2008 16:02:45 GMT -5
Cambridge wrote: I have faith (though not rock solid) in Obama's integrity, but I won't be surprised if he bends. I'll be very disappointed, but not surprised. It will be a huge mistake and a costly one for the American taxpayer if he bows to the left end of the Dem party and embraces all the "reforms" they are pushing. More entitlement programs will only further bankrupt the next generation. Contrary to much popular belief, I do actually appreciate legitimate opinions from the other side, yours for example. That being said, I have heard several people suggest similar ideas as that which you have stated. Why exactly do you think ... or are so convinced that Obama will not go along with those "lefties" which you mention? In all honesty, I don't see the logic which would support the idea that he isn't "one of them" ... at least ideologically. The closest I see is that he isn't a "Washington Insider" ... at least not yet. But seriously, why are you so convinced that he isn't a typical liberal democrat? His voting record would certainly suggest that. If the left can harp on the fact that McCain voted with Bush 90% of the times, then it is reasonable to consider the Claims of Obama being "the most liberal Senator," based exclusively on his voting record. Personally, I like what Obama has said about the family being the starting point. I like what he has said with respect to parents needing to take the lead with their children. Not that that is a "democrat" or "republican" position, but he does bring it up as a counter to simply throwing government money at the problem -- a view more associated with the political right. But aside from that, in virtually every other issue, he seems to be just another pie in the sky promiser from the left. Why do you think he isn't? You know he represents a liberal constituency, right? If he was representing them, he would vote as they would. In such a contentious, partisan time period, it is no surprise that most members of congress voted with their party. Besides for all this "most liberal" label, Obama voted with the party less than Hillary, Biden, Schumer and 11 other Dem senators. But I digress, I'm basing his viewpoints off his written work and speeches rather than votes. Basically, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he understands the difference between representing a district in state legislature or a state in the senate from representing the American people as president. While he is a Democrat, he is not a radical like Kuchinich I am hoping -- and I have acknowledged this as somewhat fanciful, but why not be optimistic in tough times? -- that Obama will be able to return the presidency to the centrist, moderating role it has been in times past. Despite my own political viewpoints being different on several key points, I'd rather have what appears to be a young, left of center, thoughtful, reflective leader who will give America and the world hope for tomorrow than an erratic, aging senator not known for his intellect who seems to have mortgaged every political value he's ever held (and all those I respected him for) in a desperate bid for the white house.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Oct 28, 2008 16:37:15 GMT -5
"Despite my own political viewpoints being different on several key points, I'd rather have what appears to be a young, left of center, thoughtful, reflective leader who will give America and the world hope for tomorrow than an erratic, aging senator not known for his intellect who seems to have mortgaged every political value he's ever held (and all those I respected him for) in a desperate bid for the white house."
AMEN! this is exactly how I feel.
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 28, 2008 17:33:08 GMT -5
Be careful what you wish for - if you want to get rid of Pelosi, you probably get Rahm Emanuel.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Oct 28, 2008 18:50:02 GMT -5
I am hoping -- and I have acknowledged this as somewhat fanciful, but why not be optimistic in tough times? -- that Obama will be able to return the presidency to the centrist, moderating role it has been in times past. I hope so too. As evidence, we have his commitment to uniting the country -- yes, I know. Bush made the same promise. But I have far more confidence that Obama means it. He is always talking about ALL of America..not red America or Blue America. That is one of his major appeals -- to bring all of us together. And on the Financial side, he is surrounding himself with great minds who think like that -- Warren Buffett, Paul Volcker, Larry Summers and Richard Rubin. All of those gentlemen are pragmatic centrists. As is Colin Powell. And Obama is going to have a LOT of political capital. More than Nancy or Harry. As for those who criticize her for not being sufficiently bi-partisan, her comments before the Bail out bill vote -- while not inaccurate -- were stupid. But worse, they were not magnanimous. She had an opportunity to stick it to the Republicans who had been sticking it to the Dems for the last 8 years.... and she gave in to her lesser instinct and took the shot. She failed to see she could have done far more for herself, her party and her country by rising above. (This does not absolve the Republicans for using it as an excuse to vote against the country's best interest). But on the other side of the coin, Pelosi can hardly help but do better than Tom Delay, who had absolutely zero interest in working in a bi-partisan manner. And neither has GWB -- except when he was absolutely forced to. So yes, I think Pelosi will do better than Delay, but it would be good for all of us if she sets her target a lot higher than that lowest possible bar.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 28, 2008 18:55:42 GMT -5
Of ourse, it is possible that those Republicans were voting their consciences or constituent wishes as did so many Democrats.
Nancy Pelosi is simply the reverse side of the Delay coin. No worse, but certainly no better to this point.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 28, 2008 19:00:06 GMT -5
P.S. Tom Delay was never Speaker of the House.
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