hoyasexy
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Post by hoyasexy on Apr 3, 2009 9:08:27 GMT -5
Can we stop this? All this talk about whether or not we want any more McDAAs is utter bullEDITED.
1. It smacks LOUDLY of sour grapes. Yes, we have had our share of McDAAs over the last few years, and no, that has not translated to on-court success (yet). I fail to see how getting lesser talent is going to solve that problem.
2. How many McDAAs are playing in the final four this weekend? My guess is a lot. That should say plenty.
3. Let's also keep in perspective just how many players actually leave early. In any given year, there are a handful of freshmen, a few more sophomores, and a few more juniors coming out. Only 60-some players get drafted at all each year. A lot of them are graduating seniors and international players. Although there are a few (a very few) players each year who you can identify as obvious early-entry candidates, your chances of getting a four player out of a McDAA are probably a lot better than you think.
Granted, whether a player is highly ranked by the recruiting services or is selected as a McDAA isn't that great a predictor of success at the college level, but they are likely as good as any other system available. So why not target them?
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Post by HeartAttackHoya on Apr 3, 2009 10:23:24 GMT -5
Can we stop this? All this talk about whether or not we want any more McDAAs is utter bullEDITED. 1. It smacks LOUDLY of sour grapes. Yes, we have had our share of McDAAs over the last few years, and no, that has not translated to on-court success (yet). I fail to see how getting lesser talent is going to solve that problem. 2. How many McDAAs are playing in the final four this weekend? My guess is a lot. That should say plenty. 3. Let's also keep in perspective just how many players actually leave early. In any given year, there are a handful of freshmen, a few more sophomores, and a few more juniors coming out. Only 60-some players get drafted at all each year. A lot of them are graduating seniors and international players. Although there are a few (a very few) players each year who you can identify as obvious early-entry candidates, your chances of getting a four player out of a McDAA are probably a lot better than you think. Granted, whether a player is highly ranked by the recruiting services or is selected as a McDAA isn't that great a predictor of success at the college level, but they are likely as good as any other system available. So why not target them? agreed. every team in the country who cant get the mcd's kids validates it this way. on the average, the top 30 recruits or so have a higher yield of being good college players. Sometimes teams will bring in kids who outperform mcd's kids, most of the time they won't. For every Hibbert, Green there are 5 times more kids who are never productive on the college level. I do agree however that a nice mix is needed between top 30 talent and potential role player/fits the system players. But to say "we dont even want the Mcd's kids because ..." i am not in agreement with.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 3, 2009 10:49:14 GMT -5
As with everything, the ability of the players you recruit to play as part of a team (in whatever system) matters almost as much if not more than their ranking by recruiting services.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 3, 2009 10:55:22 GMT -5
id is right (as usual).
You need some top flight talent - a star or two - and a lot of very good players who know where they fit.
McD is a convenient way to classify soem top flight talent, and yes, they aren't always right. But if you take them, you tend to be a better team. Like it or not, the three best offensive players on our team this year were all McD's AA (yes, Freeman was better than you guys remember, just not as good as he can be), and I can't imagine this team without Chris or Greg.
You always need a Roy or Jeff. Sometimes those come from outside of the top talent. But most times they don't.
Michigan State is a fantastic example of this. They have a ton of McD's level recruits -- Raymar Morgan (not sure if he was), Delvon Roe, Durrell Summers, Kalin Lucas, etc.
But actually, Lucas and to a lesser extent Summers are playing a key role. But Morgan and Roe (both hurt at times) are not nearly as important as the less heralded Draymond Green and the Spartan's best player, Goran Suton.
Personally, I think Suton may completely blow away Thabeet tomorrow.
We need more talented depth and stars. We kind of missed both this year, but if there were more talent, we'd also perceive guys like Chris and Greg more as stars.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 3, 2009 10:56:56 GMT -5
BTW,
Hollis was 26 on the RSCI -- so yeah, McD's low range.
Markel would be right around there as well right -- Lubick is currently ranked more in the Sims range.
Roscoe is up there, so is Will Barton and a whole slew of guys who may come to GU.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 3, 2009 11:03:09 GMT -5
Yes, that was a little sour grapes on my part.
If we can grab a McD I would be happy, but perhaps the percieved importance of getting some these kids is over-rated? I also think the importance of having 4-year hardworking role players is a little under-rated.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 3, 2009 11:24:33 GMT -5
id is right (as usual). You need some top flight talent - a star or two - and a lot of very good players who know where they fit. McD is a convenient way to classify soem top flight talent, and yes, they aren't always right. But if you take them, you tend to be a better team. Like it or not, the three best offensive players on our team this year were all McD's AA (yes, Freeman was better than you guys remember, just not as good as he can be), and I can't imagine this team without Chris or Greg. You always need a Roy or Jeff. Sometimes those come from outside of the top talent. But most times they don't. Michigan State is a fantastic example of this. They have a ton of McD's level recruits -- Raymar Morgan (not sure if he was), Delvon Roe, Durrell Summers, Kalin Lucas, etc. But actually, Lucas and to a lesser extent Summers are playing a key role. But Morgan and Roe (both hurt at times) are not nearly as important as the less heralded Draymond Green and the Spartan's best player, Goran Suton. Personally, I think Suton may completely blow away Thabeet tomorrow. We need more talented depth and stars. We kind of missed both this year, but if there were more talent, we'd also perceive guys like Chris and Greg more as stars. Yes. I have always thought that for a team to make to the Final Four (and farther) you need at least one McD level guy to push you over the top (this is what was lacking for gtown last year- a center doesnt work well just because of the limited position). but you also need a lot of quality depth. Look at Nova, they have a couple McD guys (like reynolds) but it has been a few years since they were, but that has only translated to tons of quality depth. I know most of us dont think Kemba Walker is that amazing and he is clearly not carrying Uconn right now, but i think that he adds a little something to that team that is lacking with the other players (namely his quickness and explosiveness on D and on the drive). a team needs a bunch of guys who are willing to be role players (like Jon or Pat or even jessie two years ago) and then one or two guys who are going to take over (like Jeff). Lacking one component a team will fall short. K State had Beasley but not much else (ok bill walker, but that is clearly not enough). And last yeas hoyas had the quality role players but not that guy to push them over the edge.** **i dont count Roy, even though i think he is an amazing player because, as i mentioned before, the role of a center is limited. He needs someone to feed the post and other scores to draw the D. It is even more difficult for a traditional center like Roy because his game is really focused on back to the basket/low post stuff. A guy like Tim Duncan can do it because he can move away from the basket and drive the lane. BTW, Hollis was 26 on the RSCI -- so yeah, McD's low range. I think he still would have been borderline, but because the Teams are East and West, a shallow west team could have helped (i dont know how deep the west team is because i am not willing to look ;D) But then there are Guys like teh Wear Twins who take up two spots on the roster and do nothing (david was 0-3 ont he night in 14 min) but get bump because they are going to UNC.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 3, 2009 11:47:34 GMT -5
Wasn't the Maryland 2002 team the only champion in the last 25 years or so not to have a McD AA on the roster? Or at least something like that?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 3, 2009 13:11:11 GMT -5
Wasn't the Maryland 2002 team the only champion in the last 25 years or so not to have a McD AA on the roster? Or at least something like that? I'm not sure it was 25 years -- might "just" be 15 or so -- but yes. Thing is, that's just a weird stat. There were plenty of champions that had less McD AAs than others, or that the McD AAs weren't even the best player, etc. And focusing only on champions limits the sample size and implies the only success is a national title. A team loaded with McD AAs is simply more likely to be talented. That's true. But when we went to the Final Four, our McD AA was Vernon Macklin. Had we won, we wouldn't have broken the streak, though, c'mon, really. I think Florida just had either Horford or Brewer, but most of their guys weren't McD AAs, either, like UNC or Duke.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Apr 3, 2009 16:06:45 GMT -5
UNC has 8 McD's AA's on this current team. That's kind of ridiculous.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 3, 2009 16:23:50 GMT -5
UNC has 8 McD's AA's on this current team. That's kind of ridiculous. And they get to play the first couple rounds of the NCAA tourney in NC every year, just in case the 8 Mickey D's aren't enough. But, two years ago our guys hung with them despite all their McD AA's -- and a ref in their pocket -- and still nailed them in crunch time!!! Greatest victory of the JT3 era.... so far!
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Post by dungeon ball on Apr 3, 2009 16:39:52 GMT -5
UNC has 8 McD's AA's on this current team. That's kind of ridiculous. they're getting 4 more next season...
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 3, 2009 17:13:37 GMT -5
Paulus is in a league of his own. Coming out of high school, he was as high as #1 in some or the services. To go from that to playing 10 mins & 3 pts in his last college game as a four-year player should be the benchmark for overrating players.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 3, 2009 18:11:30 GMT -5
they're getting 4 more next season... Really they are getting 2 more--because Wear Stiffs had no business being in that game. Like Kelly/Plumlee, they were the "Serge Zwikker/Neil Fingleton/Lee Melchioni/Greg Paulus" recruits who make the game based on WHERE they signed and not how they play/project at next level. Its more like 1.5, that is how bad the Wear twins are, they make other people worse, even sitting on the bench
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 4, 2009 8:34:42 GMT -5
UNC has 8 McD's AA's on this current team. That's kind of ridiculous. When are people going to start talking about how crappy a coach crying Roy is when he doesn't win every year with talent like this?
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 4, 2009 9:26:47 GMT -5
UNC has 8 McD's AA's on this current team. That's kind of ridiculous. When are people going to start talking about how crappy a coach crying Roy is when he doesn't win every year with talent like this? Agreed.
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whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on Apr 4, 2009 15:00:46 GMT -5
UNC has 8 McD's AA's on this current team. That's kind of ridiculous. When are people going to start talking about how crappy a coach crying Roy is when he doesn't win every year with talent like this? The same time people realize Dean Smith was a crappy coach for only winning 2 national championships despite all the talented teams he had over the years. Roy at least took some criticism for not winning anything with all his good Kansas teams.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 4, 2009 16:05:08 GMT -5
AND UNC has been in final four 7 times in the last 15 years, so its not like he hasnt had the chance!
I agree sometime soon it will happen, but unfortunately that guy will get fired from ESPN
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 5, 2009 1:39:59 GMT -5
Of course, Roy didn't coach all of those teams.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 5, 2009 8:11:23 GMT -5
UNC has 8 McD's AA's on this current team. That's kind of ridiculous. When are people going to start talking about how crappy a coach crying Roy is when he doesn't win every year with talent like this? Well, he is poised to win his 2nd championship in 5 seasons ay UNC. Besides, in a conversation like that, please do not leave out Coach K. Even Duke alums I know are tired of the late season flameouts for team that is usually packed with McDAAs.
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