RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Oct 13, 2008 23:59:28 GMT -5
I have no idea how we won tonight. Has Stairs' homer landed yet? ;D I know how you won--Joe Torre managed the Dodgers. Get him into a strategic game and watch him **** up any game.
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njhoya06
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 228
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Post by njhoya06 on Oct 14, 2008 0:22:05 GMT -5
I have no idea how we won tonight. Has Stairs' homer landed yet? ;D I know how you won--Joe Torre managed the Dodgers. Get him into a strategic game and watch him **** up any game. Joe Torre made his closer give up a home run to a journeyman?
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Oct 14, 2008 3:04:58 GMT -5
I know how you won--Joe Torre managed the Dodgers. Get him into a strategic game and watch him **** up any game. Joe Torre made his closer give up a home run to a journeyman? Look how he handled the game and his great decision to bring back Kory Wade who had pitched 2 innings on Sunday night and obviously had nothing was key to the game--well that and fact he lets Kuo bunt--come out for one hitter (Howard) and then takes him out after giving up a hit. Why not pinch hit for Kuo if you are going to pull him after 1 batter? So he gives up an out and loses chance to add to lead and then pulls pitcher--with his closer warming up--at same time as Wade--and brings in Wade first? I give Phillies credit and I'm not taking away at all from their performance--but this guy is an awful manager when it comes to strategy and can muck up any situation. Look at his Dodger bullpen--Wade, Kuo, Proctor, Saito, all had/have arm problems and he's had to "rest"/shutdown. He has no clue how to manage a pitching staff and tonight was further evidence of that.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 14, 2008 12:32:02 GMT -5
Torre totally bolluxed the game last night. He had been criticized (unjustly, in my view) for leaving Lowe and Billingsley in too long in Philly (Billingsley only needs to get the pitcher out; Lowe should be removed in the sixth inning because he's made one bad pitch?), but he showed he had been affected by the criticism when he amazingly removed Lowe after 5 innings tonight, despite his having made only 74 pitches. Lowe got off to a rocky start, but had clearly settled down. So by going to his pen at least an inning (if not two innings) too early, he then found himself (i) with no more left handed relief pitchers by the eighth inning; (ii) having to use a guy who had made 33 pitches the night before; and (iii) having to bring his closer (who had also pitched the night before, needlessly, with the team leading by five runs) in early. Now if Kershaw and Park hadn't screwed up in the sixth inning, perhaps none of the above would have occurred, but why place yourself in that position? You want a 20 year old rookie on the mound rather than a clutch veteran? Sorry, Joe blew it.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Oct 14, 2008 13:33:35 GMT -5
Do Torre's failures surprise anyone? He hasn't won a Series since 2000 and was managing a team from 2001-2007 that was outspending its competition by 30-40%. Joe Torre won when Joe Torre had great starting pitching, veteran leadership, and the dominant post-season closer in MLB history. He also managed to not win with those very same elements.
Too many years in the AL left Torre ill-equipped for a game of moves. He was out thought by Charlie Manuel for God's sake!!!
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Oct 14, 2008 13:33:59 GMT -5
Why does he keep pulling DeWitt for "defensive move"? The kid has played a solid 2B,even though he's a 3B is a LH and he's had some big hits for the Dodgers. It's just making a move for sake of making a move and it's ignorant.
If you are going to pull a pitcher after 5 innings--why start him on 3 days rest? Maddux is good for 3 1/3 at least--and if Phillies hit some balls at people-he can give you 5--so it was stupid to start Lowe if he was going to get the hook that quickly.
I still point to the Kuo move--lets him hit/sacrifice in bottom of 7th with 2 runners on and 1 out--but then pulls him after one batter--so why not just pinch hit for him in 7th and go to Broxton?
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 14, 2008 15:26:39 GMT -5
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mchoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by mchoya on Oct 14, 2008 16:34:22 GMT -5
Long commercial breaks do more harm than small strike zones. I find it hard to believe that 2008 is the first year in the history of baseball that an umpire has had a small strike zone.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 14, 2008 17:02:58 GMT -5
Commercial breaks aren't going away. What could go away is walking around the mound, getting the rosin bag, looking up to heaven, breathing six times, then getting the sign, shaking it off, getting off the mound....
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Jack on Oct 14, 2008 17:12:58 GMT -5
The most interesting point in my mind (and I actually found that piece pretty rambling) was the idea that more of the game is being called from the dugout. That would certainly add to the time between pitches, and it is not really hard to understand why managers and coaches would want to be involved in those decisions with all the data they have at their disposal now.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 14, 2008 17:51:29 GMT -5
The most interesting point in my mind (and I actually found that piece pretty rambling) was the idea that more of the game is being called from the dugout. That would certainly add to the time between pitches, and it is not really hard to understand why managers and coaches would want to be involved in those decisions with all the data they have at their disposal now. Still, it makes the game boring and frankly, I think, less of a game. I'm all about making the right decision - I just think the players need to be the ones making it. It's why I would ban playcalling from the bench in football again. Let's have everyone go no-huddle, quarterback calls the plays!
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Oct 14, 2008 20:28:28 GMT -5
Pitcher "specialization" and over-managing pitchers is a huge reason why games take so long. Last night was a perfect example -- just let them pitch, moron. Is it really necessary to go through your entire bullpen every playoff game?
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Oct 14, 2008 22:40:19 GMT -5
Yikes... the Rays made three errors and still won the game 13-4?!?!
As a tunnel-visioned Yankee apologist, I will refrain from commenting on this game out of my sincere heartfelt concern for our East Coast Elite bretheren up the Turnpike..
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Oct 15, 2008 13:49:40 GMT -5
Any reason they are moving Kazmir up and bumping Shields back a game?
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Jack on Oct 15, 2008 14:21:19 GMT -5
Any reason they are moving Kazmir up and bumping Shields back a game? My guess- so Shields can start Game 1 of the World Series while the inept Red Sox lineup would struggle against just about anyone they throw out there. I hope the Sox can make them pay for their insolence, but confidence is in pretty short supply around here.
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ichirohoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by ichirohoya on Oct 15, 2008 15:00:34 GMT -5
Was last night the end of Tim Wakefield?
Maybe its just last year's comeback from down 3-1 to the Indians still rattling around in my brain, but, I still have this nagging feeling that the Sox are World Series bound. I really hope I'm wrong, but, I just can't bring myself to picture the Rays in the World Series until the Red Sox have 0 outs left.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 32,081
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 15, 2008 15:33:11 GMT -5
Was last night the end of Tim Wakefield? Nope - very difficult to replace the dollars spent per win or inning that he provides. Hard to find 181 IP with an 111 ERA+ and 1.182 WHIP for $4M these days. Mike Timlin, on the other hand...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2008 16:26:42 GMT -5
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ichirohoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by ichirohoya on Oct 15, 2008 20:33:21 GMT -5
Now that is very interesting.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Oct 15, 2008 22:44:02 GMT -5
For the first time in my Philadelphia fan life, I really, truly, 100% believed in a team...and they didn't let me down. I love these guys.
My irrational Hoya exuberance is only to offset my alter ego as a Philly fan who is constantly disappointed. But these guys are different. I think they can do it.
Go Phils!
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