A National Shame

[thebin]

I just cannot believe that 7 years down the line the 9/11 ceremony is taking place in a hole in the ground with a poster of an architect's rendering of what it might look like if they ever get their act together. A National Shame.

[sead43]

there are obviously a million different reasons behind the delay, some understandable and inevitable, others frustrating and indeed downright 'shameful'. and a lot of material is out there on it, but these are just 2 interesting pieces i've come across.

-Mayor Bloomberg: "No more excuses"
online.wsj.com/article/SB122100941916217671.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

-An interesting take
www.esquire.com/features/75-most-influential/world-trade-center-1008-5

[theexorcist]

I'm always worried of monuments being designed by committee. Apparently, Shanksville is working on some monument - I've always thought that the empty field was memorial enough.

[strummer8526]

Personally, I would love to have seen two towers, each 10 stories taller than the old ones, put right back there. That message to the world would have been powerful. What does a terrorist think when he has to acknowledge, "We gave them the best shot in history, and 5 years later, they're stronger than they were before." Obviously, those 10 floors and massive ground space could (and probably should) have served as a memorial also. But as a symbol of American strength, reconstructing those buildings would have been unparalleled.

That's a little off-topic, but it means I obviously agree that something should be there by now.

[hifigator]

good point strummer, and every Sept. 11th that comes, I can't help but think that there are a bunch of friggin radical towel-heads somewhere in the world celebrating. The news channels show the footage from that dreadful morning and then when they read the names and have the Memorial service with nothing but a giant crater in the back, I would think they would all be thinking that they had, in some way, won.

[TBird41]

Sept 11, 2008 15:49:11 GMT -5 hifigator said:

good point strummer, and every Sept. 11th that comes, I can't help but think that there are a bunch of friggin radical towel heads somewhere in the world celebrating. The news channels show the footage from that dreadful morning and then when they read the names and have the Memorial service with nothing but a giant crater in the back, I would think they would all be thinking that they had, in some way, won.

Seriously? Can you take your racist brand of idiocy off this board? Or can the moderators?

[SFHoya99]

Hifi,

Can you refrain from using the term "towel-heads"? I know you were referring specifically to terrorists (or think you were) and thus people who deserve no respect, but that term is commonly used to describe in a derogatory manner millions of people who are not terrorists and they do deserve respect.

Otherwise, yeah, I'm with you. I wish we had something up just as a statement. The politicians and others who are delaying this to help their housing developments or boost their egos are pathetic, awful people.

[hoyatables]

Sept 11, 2008 15:49:11 GMT -5 hifigator said:

good point strummer, and every Sept. 11th that comes, I can't help but think that there are a bunch of friggin radical towel heads somewhere in the world celebrating. The news channels show the footage from that dreadful morning and then when they read the names and have the Memorial service with nothing but a giant crater in the back, I would think they would all be thinking that they had, in some way, won.

This should equal an instant ban. Blatant racism.

[The Stig]

The extreme majority of people who wear a turban (be they Muslim, Sikh, or another religion) are peace loving people who were just as upset as we were about 9/11, if not more so.

[hifigator]

I admit laying a bit of a trap there, but if you will notice I specifically said "RADICAL!" Had I left that word out, then I would have been out of line. My very intentional point however, was to remind us all of the footage that was very commonly seen some 7 years ago, just hours after the towers came down of sizable groups of arabs, predominantly, literally celebrating the death of 5,000 Americans. Some were dancing, others were shooting guns in the air, while others still were cheering "Allah is Great" and "Death to the Great Satan."

Remember that? Don't let your politics get in the way of your patriotism ... not to mention your humanity.


On Edit: In all seriousness, I ask you these questions:

Upon clarification, do you see my point?

Do you still think it was or should be out of line?

[Bando]

Sept 11, 2008 16:37:22 GMT -5 hifigator said:

I admit laying a bit of a trap there, but if you will notice I specifically said "RADICAL!" Had I left that word out, then I would have been out of line. My very intentional point however, was to remind us all of the footage that was very commonly seen some 7 years ago, just hours after the towers came down of sizable groups of arabs, predominantly, literally celebrating the death of 5,000 Americans. Some were dancing, others were shooting guns in the air, while others still were cheering "Allah is Great" and "Death to the Great Satan."

Remember that? Don't let your politics get in the way of your patriotism ... not to mention your humanity.


On Edit: In all seriousness, I ask you these questions:

Upon clarification, do you see my point?

Do you still think it was or should be out of line?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure saying "radical Editeds" or "radical spics" isn't ok, just because you put "radical" in front of it.

Mods, seriously, HiFi's been asked many, many times to stop using racist and homophobic language in his posts. As you can see above, he apparently doesn't think this type of language is a problem. He's a disruptive presence here, and he's a freaking Gator. He needs to go.

[williambraskyiii]

Are you an idiot Hifi? I mean I think you are.....you do realize that you are denigrating the wrong people?

For the love of all that is Hoya, please, please, please ban this piece of human waste...he dominates far too many conversations with his inane, over-the-top antics and is an attention-grubbing parasite.

Basta ya.

[The Stig]

Sept 11, 2008 16:37:22 GMT -5 hifigator said:

My very intentional point however, was to remind us all of the footage that was very commonly seen some 7 years ago, just hours after the towers came down of sizable groups of arabs, predominantly, literally celebrating the death of 5,000 Americans. Some were dancing, others were shooting guns in the air, while others still were cheering "Allah is Great" and "Death to the Great Satan."

Those were very small groups, mostly Palestinians. They got an incredibly disproportionate amount of press coverage.

Those who were celebrating were a small minority among Palestinians. Palestinians are a small minority among Arabs. Arabs are a small minority among Muslims (of the top 5 countries by Muslim population, none of them are Arab). So I think it's safe to say that the Muslims who were celebrating after 9/11 were in the extreme minority. From a religion of 1.3 billion people, there may have been a few hundred celebrating.

The overwhelming majority of Muslims were distraught at the events of that day, and were horrified that their wonderful religion was perverted to justify those terrible acts. Even Muslim fundamentalists were outraged at the attacks.

A Pakistani friend of mine was home in Pakistan when the attacks happened, and he decided to go listen to a radical Muslim preacher he knew about, to see what sorts of things he was saying about the attacks. My friend was pleasantly surprised to hear the radical condemning the attacks in the harshest terms possible. So even radical Muslims were outraged at what happened.

Also, Muslims aren't the only ones who wear turbans. Several of the Americans who were murdered in revenge attacks after 9/11 were Sikhs, not Muslims.

[hoyatables]

Sept 11, 2008 16:37:22 GMT -5 hifigator said:

I admit laying a bit of a trap there, but if you will notice I specifically said "RADICAL!" Had I left that word out, then I would have been out of line. My very intentional point however, was to remind us all of the footage that was very commonly seen some 7 years ago, just hours after the towers came down of sizable groups of arabs, predominantly, literally celebrating the death of 5,000 Americans. Some were dancing, others were shooting guns in the air, while others still were cheering "Allah is Great" and "Death to the Great Satan."

Remember that? Don't let your politics get in the way of your patriotism ... not to mention your humanity.


On Edit: In all seriousness, I ask you these questions:

Upon clarification, do you see my point?

Do you still think it was or should be out of line?

I don't see your point, and I think you are woefully WOEFULLY ignorant. I understand what you are trying to say, but it is absolutely incorrect. This isn't about being PC or not.

And you were completely out of line.

[FewFAC]

Well, it was "A National Shame" thread, how could hifi not be a part of it?

[hifigator]

Fair enough. And Stig, you could have good point with regards to coverage. I know that in the days that followed the attacks, there was overwhelming support for America and a very vocal outcry among much of the Islam nation. But all I was thinking about was more the knee jerk reaction of the very vocal minority, but as you point out, it could very well be a much smaller percentage than even I was thinking, given the drastically disproportional coverage. I do remember multiple groups at numerous locations exuberant with joy, but I will concede that not only might that represent a small minority, but perhaps as you suggest, those "different" coverages, could have been different angles and views of the same groups of Palestinians, for example. In any case, yes, I was talking specifically about those people -- however few or many there really are.

As for these pleas to ban a poster -- any poster -- over such petty things as this, I just don't think such comments even warrant consideration. I don't recall any such pleas when whoever that was put on a rant about the dumb people in the south. No, disparaging huge groups of Americans, from everyone in the south to anyone living in a small town, I guess it's ok to call them all dumb as a group.

[TBird41]

Sept 12, 2008 10:33:40 GMT -5 hifigator said:

Fair enough. And Stig, you could have good point with regards to coverage. I know that in the days that followed the attacks, there was overwhelming support for America and a very vocal outcry among much of the Islam nation. But all I was thinking about was more the knee jerk reaction of the very vocal minority, but as you point out, it could very well be a much smaller percentage than even I was thinking, given the drastically disproportional coverage. I do remember multiple groups at numerous locations exuberant with joy, but I will concede that not only might that represent a small minority, but perhaps as you suggest, those "different" coverages, could have been different angles and views of the same groups of Palestinians, for example. In any case, yes, I was talking specifically about those people -- however few or many there really are.

As for these pleas to ban a poster -- any poster -- over such petty things as this, I just don't think such comments even warrant consideration. I don't recall any such pleas when whoever that was put on a rant about the dumb people in the south. No, disparaging huge groups of Americans, from everyone in the south to anyone living in a small town, I guess it's ok to call them all dumb as a group.

You're right. Ethnic slurs are no big deal.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=towelhead

[TC]

Sept 11, 2008 16:37:22 GMT -5 hifigator said:

I admit laying a bit of a trap there, but if you will notice I specifically said "RADICAL!"

Translation : Racism is okay if you infer that the person you are slurring hates America.

I don't get it. Threads about Craig Esherick get shut down almost immediately, but this troll gets to spill whatever he wants on a board that is ostensibly political conversation on a level that might represent graduates of Georgetown (it's called "Blue and Gray", not "Political Smackdown"). He even admits he's trolling ("I admit laying a bit of a trap there").

I get that a lot of what we're hearing in the media is "Campaignin'", but does this board really have to be on that level consistently? I'd argue that at least two or three of threads from yesterday were nowhere near a "Blue and Gray" level, which is a shame given yesterday was September 11th.

[Boz]

I'm certainly not going to defend the use of a word like "towelhead" or anything like it, but it does remind me of this really funny clip, so of course, I thought I'd share:

www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152944

Sorry, TC, I don't think that's to the level of "Blue & Gray" either.

(who is Craig Esherick?)

[hifigator]

TBird, in fairness, from your very same site, they seem to make a clear distinction between the hypenated word, "towel-head" and the non-hyphenated word , "towelhead."


www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=towel-head