GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Sept 14, 2008 19:07:16 GMT -5
Yeah I'm with Bando on this one. Charles Krauthammer, who we were just discussing a few days ago, is almost entirely paralyzed. I've been in a minivan that he was driving completely by himself. He also got himself into and out of said van. There's a girl in my law school class who is blind and has a laptop with her at all times. This assertion that he "can't" send email is patently absurd. Get a blackberry and it requires 1 hand. Coincidentally, my response as a voter to this ad and the Obama sex ed ad also requires one hand.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Sept 14, 2008 20:27:42 GMT -5
Yeah I'm with Bando on this one. Charles Krauthammer, who we were just discussing a few days ago, is almost entirely paralyzed. I've been in a minivan that he was driving completely by himself. He also got himself into and out of said van. There's a girl in my law school class who is blind and has a laptop with her at all times. This assertion that he "can't" send email is patently absurd. Get a blackberry and it requires 1 hand. No way, you're with Bando this time? Way to break with tradition, seeing how you have been so right-leaning otherwise! ;D I agree with the general response you and Bando are making, but I think the Obama ad does muck things up a bit by showing a picture of a hand typing on a keyboard right when it talks about McCain not knowing how to use a computer. Not the best picture to display under the circumstances...
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Sept 15, 2008 1:49:28 GMT -5
....ooops. Barack Obama's new "out of touch" ad: link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bctid1789003018Except, whoopsie. As reported by the Boston Globe, the reason John McCain doesn't use a computer or send e-mails is because he can't. His POW injuries prevent him from doing so. They probably should have just stuck with "doesn't understand the economy." I don't think that's true, and I'm not sure it has the traction they want (Obama has a lead on the economic issue, but not a big one), but at least it would have stuck to the issues and avoided a potential backlash. Ok, that's just woefully ignorant. Are you aware of the hundreds of devices and applications available to help the disabled use computers? The woman (forget her name) who ran for Lt. Gov. under Erlich in 2006 used a computer regularly, and she was blind. Severe autistics have blogs. My brother's best friend is completely paralyzed save for limited motion of his head and one arm, and he's on the internet all the time. John McCain has never used a computer because he's never wanted to. Stop making stupid excuses. Yeah, maybe Democrats should just start making stupid lies instead.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 15, 2008 8:34:25 GMT -5
I grant you that the word "can't" was inappropriate. I am aware of many of the devices and options available for accessibility and ADA requirements. I have to plan for them in my work.
"More difficult," "very difficult" or "very challenging" would be fairer terms to use.
So, point taken. Now explain to me again how including this totally irrelevant detail in the ad this helps Barack Obama's allegation that John McCain doesn't understand the economy or the world today.
It kind of belies the title of this thread, no?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 15, 2008 9:49:19 GMT -5
Bando, that link Boz drug up is the Drudge Report response. It's stupid. If Stephen Hawking can use the internet, John McCain can too. That said, I don't think "John McCain doesn't use the Internet" is an effective ad or meme. Hmmm, maybe it's just me, but it seems like there's something different between Stephen Hawking, the blind guy and the paralyzed guy, and John McCain. Oh yeah, they HAVE to learn how to use these assistive devices in order to function. Stephen Hawking learned to use his computer device because if he didn't he wouldn't be able to communicate, write, etc. I don't think John McCain is in the same position. Methinks a senator and presidential candidate is plenty informed and in touch without thumbing on a blackberry all day. Really, how will he be limited as a president if he's not on the computer or the internet? Seriously, what's the big deal? And like a lot of people said, if you're going to ding McCain for not being a techie, then Obama shouldn't be able to say anything about the military because he never served. I'll take that tit for tat any day.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 15, 2008 9:55:33 GMT -5
....ooops. Barack Obama's new "out of touch" ad: link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bctid1789003018Except, whoopsie. As reported by the Boston Globe, the reason John McCain doesn't use a computer or send e-mails is because he can't. His POW injuries prevent him from doing so. They probably should have just stuck with "doesn't understand the economy." I don't think that's true, and I'm not sure it has the traction they want (Obama has a lead on the economic issue, but not a big one), but at least it would have stuck to the issues and avoided a potential backlash. John McCain has never used a computer because he's never wanted to. Aside from the fact that it's not true, so what? Why would it matter if John McCain doesn't use a computer or a blackberry? Do you think the Prez and the French Prez saty up late IM'ing each other? Is our nation looked down upon because the Prez isn't on facebook? Other than trying to make this into the 2008 version of the Bush supermarket scanner made-up-story, I don't see the relevance.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 15, 2008 10:21:00 GMT -5
John McCain has never used a computer because he's never wanted to. Aside from the fact that it's not true, so what? Why would it matter if John McCain doesn't use a computer or a blackberry? Do you think the Prez and the French Prez saty up late IM'ing each other? Is our nation looked down upon because the Prez isn't on facebook? Other than trying to make this into the 2008 version of the Bush supermarket scanner made-up-story, I don't see the relevance. Other than the fact that telecommunications policy is somewhat important?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 15, 2008 10:29:02 GMT -5
Aside from the fact that it's not true, so what? Why would it matter if John McCain doesn't use a computer or a blackberry? Do you think the Prez and the French Prez saty up late IM'ing each other? Is our nation looked down upon because the Prez isn't on facebook? Other than trying to make this into the 2008 version of the Bush supermarket scanner made-up-story, I don't see the relevance. Other than the fact that telecommunications policy is somewhat important? Sooooo, how would reading ESPN.com, sending email, wasting time on Wikipedia or POSTING ON INTERNET MESSAGE BOARDS have anything to actual telecommunications policy? I'm interested to hear the link. That's like saying the president is out of touch and cannot expound on transportation policy because he never drives himself anywhere? Give me a break.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 15, 2008 10:52:14 GMT -5
Other than the fact that telecommunications policy is somewhat important? Sooooo, how would reading ESPN.com, sending email, wasting time on Wikipedia or POSTING ON INTERNET MESSAGE BOARDS have anything to actual telecommunications policy? I'm interested to hear the link. That's like saying the president is out of touch and cannot expound on transportation policy because he never drives himself anywhere? Give me a break. No, it would be like saying the president is out of touch and cannot expound on transportation policy because he doesn't know what a road is.
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DrumsGoBang
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Post by DrumsGoBang on Sept 15, 2008 10:54:46 GMT -5
No, things like understanding policies like net neutrality, internet privacy issues, legal issues like the mom on trial currently for making fake web pages and driving a kid to suidicide, public access to the internet for low income families, digital or open source copyright issues, and defense and cyber security and warfair.
If you don't have an understanding of computers or the internet these very important issues are over your head. Just wait until Al Gore invents the next big communications thing and McCain is even more behind on the times.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Sept 15, 2008 11:03:21 GMT -5
This thread is getting ludicrous now. You guys are really reaching now. Believe it or not, Presidents don't know the ins-and-outs of a lot of issues. That's why they surround themselves with smart advisors and identify experts in the various fields.
Except for our current President, of course, who surrounds himself with people who have the same exact ideology and dismisses those who don't.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Sept 15, 2008 11:07:34 GMT -5
I bet McCain doesn't understand why the "The files are IN the computer" scene of Zoolander is funny at all.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 15, 2008 11:10:05 GMT -5
Saying John McCain knows nothing about these issues is silly (or, to borrow a phrase, woefully ignorant - sorry Bando, just a little friendly return snark fire ). He's the ranking member - and former chairman - of the Commerce, Science and Technology Committee. He's dealt with telecommunications issues from media consolidation to surveillance. He has a platform on technology issues that is free for anyone to read about. You can disagree with him on those issues, but you can't say he is ignorant of them just because he personally doesn't use a computer or send e-mail. Hes also got a past chairman of eBay and of HP as senior policy advisors, so I think he's hearing from some pretty good experts in the field.
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 15, 2008 11:25:24 GMT -5
Saying John McCain knows nothing about these issues is silly (or, to borrow a phrase, woefully ignorant - sorry Bando, just a little friendly return snark fire ). He's the ranking member - and former chairman - of the Commerce, Science and Technology Committee. He's dealt with telecommunications issues from media consolidation to surveillance. He has a platform on technology issues that is free for anyone to read about. You can disagree with him on those issues, but you can't say he is ignorant of them just because he personally doesn't use a computer or send e-mail. Argument by Authority. Again, I think this is a dumb point and I'd rather they attack the Republicans on the Economy or demonize McCain through suggestive imagery like they've done to Obama, but I can't see how a person who doesn't know how to use the Internet could represent the best interests of end-users. This is the same logic that gun-voters use (if you don't own / use a gun, how will you represent their point of view)?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 15, 2008 11:47:32 GMT -5
Where does it say, and who is saying, that John McCain does not know how to use the Internet?
I prefer Argument by Authority to Excessive Extrapolation.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 15, 2008 12:03:08 GMT -5
Saying John McCain knows nothing about these issues is silly (or, to borrow a phrase, woefully ignorant - sorry Bando, just a little friendly return snark fire ). He's the ranking member - and former chairman - of the Commerce, Science and Technology Committee. He's dealt with telecommunications issues from media consolidation to surveillance. He has a platform on technology issues that is free for anyone to read about. You can disagree with him on those issues, but you can't say he is ignorant of them just because he personally doesn't use a computer or send e-mail. Argument by Authority. Again, I think this is a dumb point and I'd rather they attack the Republicans on the Economy or demonize McCain through suggestive imagery like they've done to Obama, but I can't see how a person who doesn't know how to use the Internet could represent the best interests of end-users. This is the same logic that gun-voters use (if you don't own / use a gun, how will you represent their point of view)? Obama never served in the military and doesn't have any kids in the military, ergo how could he represent the best interests of military members and their families? Obama had his buddy Tony Rezko help him out when he bought his $1.65M mansion, so he couldn't possibly represent the best interests of the middle class, who are struggling to pay the mortgage on their $250,000 home in the suburbs? Obama has never been in charge of a single business or significant real world entity in his life, so how could he possibly understand the plight of today's small business owner? Obama hasn't tilled a field, run a dariy farm, or worked on a ranch, so how can he talk about agribusiness and what is good for today's farmer and rancher? Obama has never had a baby and never had an abortion, so how can he dare talk about those issues? How far do you want to go?
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 15, 2008 12:08:46 GMT -5
Neither McCain nor Obama have ever spent way too much time posting on a message board. Crap. Is it too late for us all to get Mike Gravel back in this race?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 15, 2008 12:31:50 GMT -5
Obama has however steeped himself in radical, racially divisive politics and held long, close associations with such paragons as Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers, so he is perfectly suited to represent the extreme, radical left and their many anti-American causes.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 15, 2008 13:04:36 GMT -5
Filo, you beat me to it. Yeah, I'm just flabbergasted that partyliner strummer is siding with ultimate partyliner Bando on this one. I mean, what's going to happen next? Will it rain sometime during Wimbledon? Will Tony Cornheiser make a silly comment? Will Ohio St. embarrass itself on National TV? I just don't know what to expect.
As for the issue itself, I think analyzing the comment literally ignores the point. It was very clear that McCain is being painted as an older generation person. Is that a "good" thing? I'm not sure. To the older generation who might not have fully (if at all) embraced computers and new/modern technology, that probably wins him some points. To the younger generation, that paints him as some sort of old fuddy-duddy. (Wow, I haven't used that expression of someone in probably 5 years, and that is twice in one day!)
In any case, the last time I checked a vote from a senior citizen counts the same as a vote from a college student. I'm not sure if the overall effect will be positive or negative. My gut instinct is that it won't matter at all. There will be far more critical factors in the decision making process of voters.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 15, 2008 13:14:45 GMT -5
Obama has however steeped himself in radical, racially divisive politics and held long, close associations with such paragons as Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers, so he is perfectly suited to represent the extreme, radical left and their many anti-American causes. What ^^^ said!
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