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Post by juanjohnhoya on Sept 8, 2008 17:10:27 GMT -5
NCAA has posted a new entry on its official blog re: the "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" penalty assessed in this past weekend's Washington-BYU game: "Don't blame the refs in BYU's win over Washington - Sep 08, 2008 posted by: Howard 'The referees determined the outcome of the game.' This is an opinion that I heard all over the television after BYU's 28-27 win over Washington Saturday afternoon. While you might disagree with a referee's interpretation of a given rule, it is ridiculous to put the outcome of the game on the shoulders of the official in this situation." ----- Here's the full post: www.doubleazone.com/2008/09/washington_byu_ncaa_college_football_referees_blocked_extra_point_penalty.php |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 8, 2008 18:56:01 GMT -5
I blame them. Two reasons:
1. I have to listen to holier-than-thou BYU fans for another week. I really hope UCLA beats them down this weekend.
2. The refs did determine the outcome of the game. They kept if from going to overtime. Spare me this crap about they still had a chance to make a 35-yard PAT. How many college kickers would you trust to make a 35 yard kick under pressure. This isn't the NFL. Plus, you cannot discount the sledgehammer to the gut the UW players were dealing with over the span of 2 minutes after going from [essentially[ tying the game on a last second dive into the endzone to have a ridiculous call made against you.
This may be the lawyer in me, but there's a lot gray area in "throwing the ball high into the air." How high? Is it ok if it's straight up, or launched sideways into the crowd? Do you have to wind up and launch it, or can it fly out of your hands when you jump up into the air? Ignoring the letter of the law for a minute, I don't think anyone believes Locker's behavior merited a penalty. However, even looking at the text of the rule, I don't think it's such a case of black and white, as some have made it out to be.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Sept 8, 2008 19:07:40 GMT -5
This may be the lawyer in me, but there's a lot gray area in "throwing the ball high into the air." How high? Is it ok if it's straight up, or launched sideways into the crowd? Do you have to wind up and launch it, or can it fly out of your hands when you jump up into the air? you forgot freak weather occurances. like what if an power updraft were to push the ball out of the players hand up 30 feet? or what if a microburst forces a strongly launched ball to the ground? What if the play attempts to fling the ball high in the air but it slips out of his hand and falls to the ground? Is it the intent to throw the ball "high in the air" or the actual act of doing so?  |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Sept 8, 2008 19:34:26 GMT -5
Yeah, kc is totally right on this. This rule, like most, is subject to interpretation. It's not black and white like, say, grabbing a face mask, which can generally be determined with certainty. That penalty was total bs, even if it was the Pac 10 refs calling the penalty against the Pac 10 team (which certainly eliminates any claim of bias).
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Sept 8, 2008 20:39:42 GMT -5
Yeah, kc is totally right on this. This rule, like most, is subject to interpretation. It's not black and white like, say, grabbing a face mask, which can generally be determined with certainty. That penalty was total bs, even if it was the Pac 10 refs calling the penalty against the Pac 10 team (which certainly eliminates any claim of bias). Funny you should mention facemasks, because in two weeks of football I've seen refs refuse to blow the whistle on what would have been 5 yard facemask penalties last season three times. There are shades of gray all over football reffing. I am not sure whether anyone else watched Washington's final drive, but here's the breakdown. Notice every line begins with J. Locker. Locker incomplete pass down the middle J. Locker passed to K. Middleton down the middle for 5 yard gain J. Locker passed to K. Middleton to the right for 7 yard gain J. Locker incomplete pass to the left J. Locker incomplete pass to the left J. Locker incomplete pass to the left J. Locker rushed up the middle for 13 yard gain J. Locker passed to J. Polk to the right for 8 yard gain J. Locker rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain J. Locker passed to J. Polk to the left for 12 yard gain Wash committed 9 yard penalty J. Locker passed to D. Goodwin to the right for 20 yard gain J. Locker incomplete pass to the left J. Locker rushed up the middle for 15 yard gain J. Locker incomplete pass to the right J. Locker incomplete pass to the left J. Locker rushed to the left for 3 yard touchdown. Wash committed 15 yard penalty What doesn't show up in that drive chart is that the Huskies' offensive line got owned by BYU's D-line on that drive. If Locker were a stationary QB, he'd have been toast on a number of plays. When a player puts his team on his own back for 76 yards and scores with 0:08 seconds remaining, ticky-tacky rules on excessive celebration should not apply. I will spare the board my analysis of the Double-A Zone (cute name, NCAA) post, mainly because I can't decide whether to call "Howard" a puritan or a fascist. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 9, 2008 10:38:05 GMT -5
When a player puts his team on his own back for 76 yards and scores with 0:08 seconds remaining, ticky-tacky rules on excessive celebration should not apply. That's the key right there. I'm a big proponent of the "act like you've been there" approach, but when you lead a drive like that against the #15 team in the country, you'd be weird NOT to show a little emotion. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 9, 2008 10:59:46 GMT -5
I agree that the call was bogus and Washington got hosed. I also agree with kc's point that such wording of the rule does lend itself to a degree of ambiguity. Do I "blame" the refs however? Not really. With that wording, it seems reasonable to me that at least some officials will view it as a black and white issue, effectively being that if the player throws the ball noticeably up into the air in celebration, then it gets flagged. In my opinion the rule makers are to blame.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 9, 2008 11:34:43 GMT -5
Calling that penalty is like having a state trooper pull you over for going 1 mph over the speed limit. Is it a violation? Yep. Is it something you should enforce? You can make that call.
It's really simple imo--anyone in their right mind can tell the difference between taunting, planned celebrations, etc....and if they would let guys spike the football--maybe Locker would've done that--but you can't spike the ball either. What Locker did was harmless, and he didn't taunt anyone or single himself out--but the referees took the letter of law and applied it--which they are entitled to--and are A-holes for doing so. Let players decide games on field--not some stupid, overweight, old man. That call is another reason to hate most old people.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Sept 9, 2008 11:36:17 GMT -5
No argument there. The rule stinks. There are some scenarios where no celebration (short of clear taunting/unsportsmanlike conduct) should be considered excessive, and that was one of them.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 9, 2008 11:45:14 GMT -5
Calling that penalty is like having a state trooper pull you over for going 1 mph over the speed limit. Is it a violation? Yep. Is it something you should enforce? You can make that call. It's really simple imo--anyone in their right mind can tell the difference between taunting, planned celebrations, etc....and if they would let guys spike the football--maybe Locker would've done that--but you can't spike the ball either. What Locker did was harmless, and he didn't taunt anyone or single himself out--but the referees took the letter of law and applied it--which they are entitled to--and are A-holes for doing so. Let players decide games on field--not some stupid, overweight, old man. That call is another reason to hate most old people. You're too hard on yourself RDF. We don't really "hate" you, just because you're an old man. |
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