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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 3, 2008 21:30:57 GMT -5
Well, I do appreciate the Republicans' embrace of feminism and pre-marital sex. These guys are the masters of situational ethics. I tend to agree with you, RB. The Republicans are very good at attacking, but they haven't focused their attacks on Obama (unlike the way they did on Kerry and Gore). Rudy's speech was scatter-shot. There was no one take away message. I got the message, like so many other Americans did. Rudy should not be President. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 3, 2008 21:32:53 GMT -5
Rudy going for cheap laughs. Nice. Telling that the RNC thinks "Community Organizer" is a joke. Rudy is a thoroughly undignified man who has wasted his position as a uniting figure in favor of this kind of nonsense. It is the kind of speech that is given by someone lacking accomplishment, even when his service on 9/11 was superb. I do think the Republicans are doing what they need to do with their Convention. In many ways, this is the same exact convention as 2004. Except this time, they're not even paying the economy lip service. And from an aesthetic standpoint, one tenth of a giant video screen probably isn't the best speaker backdrop. Rudy looked like he was speaking from Atlantis. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 3, 2008 21:38:44 GMT -5
"My children are off limits. Except for Cindy McCain, who can use my son as a prop."
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Sept 3, 2008 21:41:37 GMT -5
Did she just compare herself to Harry Truman?!?!
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 3, 2008 21:42:38 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me how this speech is Vice Presidential? I've seen better speeches from people running for VP of student government.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 3, 2008 21:44:54 GMT -5
Methinks the liberals doth protest too much!
;D
(what is the third person plural of "doth"?)
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 3, 2008 21:47:09 GMT -5
You're right Boz, she's a real Barracuda!  |
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Sept 3, 2008 21:50:42 GMT -5
Wow. She repeated the Bridge to Nowhere lie.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 3, 2008 22:17:53 GMT -5
Levi was chewing gum while on stage.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 3, 2008 22:49:48 GMT -5
Honestly, if you all can't recognize that as a really excellent performance, then you're crazy. Disagree with her positions all you want, but your hopes of a veep candidate who is "not up to the job" or "will be jettisoned" or can't hold her own in this campaign seem pretty well dashed after tonight. But the media still won't let it go. Everyone seems to be making a point that she had a speechwriter for tonight. Well, duh! Like every other speaker over the last two weeks hasn't had a someone write part or all of their speeches. Oh, and Bando? She came nowhere close to "using her children as a prop" when compared to Barack Obama last week. But at least we agree on Earth Wind & Fire. |
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Sept 3, 2008 22:59:49 GMT -5
The pundants are loving Palin's speech, as far as I have seen, regardless of who wrote it. They keep saying how much Palin excites the base, and I cannot disagree there- I hate everything the base stands for, and her speech made me angry, so I can only imagine they ate it up. What I don't know is how much it helped with the independents.
Also, I am still amazed that the GOP feels good about attacking a choice to forego a lucrative law firm job to work as a community organizer, to sneer at the idea of helping people.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 3, 2008 23:03:22 GMT -5
Honestly, if you all can't recognize that as a really excellent performance, then you're crazy. Disagree with her positions all you want, but your hopes of a veep candidate who is "not up to the job" or "will be jettisoned" or can't hold her own in this campaign seem pretty well dashed after tonight. But the media still won't let it go. Everyone seems to be making a point that she had a speechwriter for tonight. Well, duh! Like every other speaker over the last two weeks hasn't had a someone write part or all of their speeches. Oh, and Bando? She came nowhere close to "using her children as a prop" when compared to Barack Obama last week. But at least we agree on Earth Wind & Fire. I think she got better once she got into the meat of the speech and away from the front half about her family/background. She did deliver some good attack lines and was much more restrained than Giuliani, to her credit. The question is how it will play in battleground states. Today seemed to be more about energizing the base. In terms of states, Iowa is pretty much off the table right now, and NM seems close to blue if the state polls are to be believed. Iowa is one of just 3 Bush states that Obama needs to win. From there, Obama just has to pick off VA, OH, or CO, assuming he has NM. I think each of those states can be called 50/50 right now. I don't know about OH, but Obama seems to have a leg up right now in terms of organization, when McCain seems to be building one right now. On top of this, McCain/Palin will have to pay lip service in some states, like NC (and maybe MT), that you would not think would be in the conversation. I don't get the sense from the McCain campaign that they have found a Kerry state that they can pick off. They seem to have ideas about MI and PA, but I don't know how much energy they have behind it. This Convention seems to be about defending home turf and holding serve, and I am not sure that it will work. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Sept 3, 2008 23:08:50 GMT -5
The pundants are loving Palin's speech, as far as I have seen, regardless of who wrote it. They keep saying how much Palin excites the base, and I cannot disagree there- I hate everything the base stands for, and her speech made me angry, so I can only imagine they ate it up. What I don't know is how much it helped with the independents. For the record, this independent disliked the speech (the content, not the delivery), too. I am reserving judgment until McCain's speech tomorrow night, but as of right now I am leaning Democrat. Also, what's up with Palin saying nukular in Ohio and nuclear in Minnesota? |
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sead43
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Post by sead43 on Sept 3, 2008 23:20:21 GMT -5
The pundants are loving Palin's speech, as far as I have seen, regardless of who wrote it. They keep saying how much Palin excites the base, and I cannot disagree there- I hate everything the base stands for, and her speech made me angry, so I can only imagine they ate it up. What I don't know is how much it helped with the independents. For the record, this independent disliked the speech (the content, not the delivery), too. I am reserving judgment until McCain's speech tomorrow night, but as of right now I am leaning Democrat. Also, what's up with Palin saying nukular in Ohio and nuclear in Minnesota? maybe because they spelled it "new-clear" on the teleprompter for her. actually a pretty good idea, if you ask me...except they forgot to change it when they released the prepared remarks to the media. voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/03/inside_the_convention_hall.html |
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 3, 2008 23:29:04 GMT -5
I admit her delivery was fantastic. She won't be jettisoned. She can hold her own on a campaign. I 100% DO NOT think that she is up to the job of VP, and that's because I believe the VP needs to be capable of being President. Honestly, can anyone see her sitting down with Putin? It sort of scares the hell out of me.
But I will say that I understand how people are turned on by her approach. It was a great speech in every way except the message. I do think she could well be a rising star in the party. I just don't think she's risen to this level YET. But if McCain goes down, this is not the last we'll hear from her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2008 7:33:39 GMT -5
This independent wasn't impressed at all. As long as the delivery is even SLIGHTLY engaging, I'm more concerned with content. And none of these speeches - Dem or Rep - give us any of that. Palin is just another in a long line of politicians - again, Dem or Rep - who don't speak to me and don't address issues that actually matter in any meaningful way. If there was something even remotely interesting on last night I would have turned the convention off like I did many points during the DNC. The NFL season starts tonight, so McCain better be good or I'm tuning right out (why couldn't the WEC show be LAST night instead of next Wednesday? UGH!).
Are these parties so bereft of ideas that all they can do is resort to attacking the other party/candidate? Are they so intellectually bankrupt they can't figure out a way to engage us and tell us how they plan to achieve their goals, but instead can only tell us why NOT to vote for the other guy?
I'm sorry, but Obama is weak. Biden is a joke. McCain is useless. Palin is terrible. The state of politics in America is completely shot and these conventions only further that belief.
EDIT: I know I'm asking more from the conventions than we've historically received, but maybe its time for a change? The current system doesn't do anything for most voters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2008 7:35:48 GMT -5
As for families, I hate the fact ALL politicians parade their families around, use any family/personal problems/obstacles they may have as some sort of proof of character (current example with Palin, her "decision" to keep a DS child), but then get all up in arms when people discuss said family members/problems.
If you don't like it, get a new job. Don't get me wrong, I wish we were a bit more civilized in this country, but that's just the way it is. Just like with celebrities or athletes who complain about the paparazzi - if you don't like the scrutiny or notoriety, either quit complaining or go the hell away and get a new job.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Sept 4, 2008 8:17:37 GMT -5
I got the distinct impression that when Palin was on the attack, she really meant it. I'm pretty sure she was channeling the frustration, anger, etc that has undoubtedly come out of a week of non-stop scrutiny of her family and past. I thought it was a well-delivered speech - but doesn't do anything for me substantively. I really do like McCain, I just can't stand many of the people that surround him. This election really is Alan Alda versus Jimmy Smitts.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 4, 2008 8:43:19 GMT -5
1. Following up om my praise last night, I do want to make it clear that I recognize this was just a speech. It was a great speech, in my opinion, and I think it went a long way to helping Palin, but there are still 60 days of proving left to do, and many of those days will be unscripted.
2. I honestly can't understand why the idea of Palin sitting down with Putin can scare people, but Obama sitting down with Putin (or others much worse) does not. Please let me know how Obama -- the PRESIDENTIAL nominee, mind you -- has any more credibility on the world stage? (And if you answer with his international visits this summer, you will get a Billy Madison deduction). Yes, he has been focused on international issues for longer, because he's been running for President for...well, forever....but that does not equate to experience and it doesn't mean he's qualified to answer the question everyone at MSNBC seems to want to ask Sarah Palin: what if we have to go to war with Pakistan (why everyone at MSNBC wants to ask that particular question I don't know; maybe they think she won't know Musharraf's name either).
Leaving the Iraq war aside for a moment -- because we are never going to agree on his position about that -- but Obama has muffed, flubbed or just plain gotten wrong just about every foreign policy question (at least the first time around) that he's gotten in this election. Obama has name recognition and has had people advising him on foreign policy issues for a little bit longer, and that's about it.
3. Yes, all of these candidates use their families. And yes, they all get offended when you go after their families. And yes, that is more than a little hypocritical. Allow me to make just two points on that issue: First, I think you do have to make an exception for someone like Michelle Obama, since she has acted not just as a spouse, but also as a political operative & campaign surrogate. As such, it is legitimate to criticize her statements. And I think that applies to Cindy McCain too. I don't think it applies to either vice presidential spouse.
Second, if families are fair game, then let's at least be equal about it. There is quite a bit about the Biden family that deserves some media attention, in my opinion, and hasn't received any. And I LIKE the Biden family. I have nothing against them, but if what we've heard about the Palins this week is a story, then you can't tell me there's not a story there too.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 4, 2008 8:46:01 GMT -5
The real test for Palin wasn't tonight - with a prepared script her charisma can shine through without any foot-in-mouth moments.
The real test will come in the VP debate against Biden. She may do very well there, since all she needs to do is hold her own to exceed expectations (see Bush v. Gore). But there's also the potential for a Dan Quayle moment, which may have been fine in the 1988 landslide, but is something the GOP can't afford in a close election like this.
On the flip side, there's also the potential for Biden to bring down the entire Obama campaign in that debate with a brain-mouth disconnect moment.
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