hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 7, 2008 16:13:25 GMT -5
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Aug 7, 2008 16:57:08 GMT -5
Can we just have one thread for all the crackpot complaining about Obama? You and Elvado can hang out there and the rest of us can worry about actual issues.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 7, 2008 18:04:47 GMT -5
Will hifi be posting now that he's been arrested? Hifi gone? |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 8, 2008 9:33:58 GMT -5
REALLY?! REALLY?!
"These are questions that must be answered because, other than Obama’s recent Berlin speech, where do we find any solid evidence of his opposition to the communist philosophy?"
this sounds like complete and utter bunk.
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 8, 2008 9:40:56 GMT -5
Can we just have one thread for all the crackpot complaining about Obama? You and Elvado can hang out there and the rest of us can worry about actual issues. I agree. This kind of stuff is crap. Let's leaf through the ideological backgrounds of everyone who could be considered a "mentor" of McCain. Considering the time period, I bet McCain had some kind of "mentor" who supported segregation. I haven't seen any evidence of McCain's opposition to segregation, so...? |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 8, 2008 10:46:34 GMT -5
Can we just have one thread for all the crackpot complaining about Obama? You and Elvado can hang out there and the rest of us can worry about actual issues. I agree. This kind of stuff is crap. Let's leaf through the ideological backgrounds of everyone who could be considered a "mentor" of McCain. Considering the time period, I bet McCain had some kind of "mentor" who supported segregation. I haven't seen any evidence of McCain's opposition to segregation, so...? It's because Obama sought out people like William Ayers, Rev. Wright, and Davis and actively engaged with them and only now (at least in the case of Rev. Wright) is denouncing his association with them after he's running for president. That's the difference between Obama and, say, the McCain/John Hagee issue. |
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 8, 2008 10:51:41 GMT -5
I agree. This kind of stuff is crap. Let's leaf through the ideological backgrounds of everyone who could be considered a "mentor" of McCain. Considering the time period, I bet McCain had some kind of "mentor" who supported segregation. I haven't seen any evidence of McCain's opposition to segregation, so...? It's because Obama sought out people like William Ayers, Rev. Wright, and Davis and actively engaged with them and only now (at least in the case of Rev. Wright) is denouncing his association with them after he's running for president. That's the difference between Obama and, say, the McCain/John Hagee issue. I just think that this all comes up more w/ Obama because he is younger and seen as having been more influenced in the formation of his ideologies than is McCain, who is old hat and who people trust has established his own positions on things (whether that's true or not). Because of his age, Obama comes across as more impressionable than someone so much older. But if we went back 55 years, I bet we could find someone who McCain looked up to and sought out for advice who was also questionable in his beliefs. No one jumps on that, though, because the formation of McCain's beliefs happened so long ago, it doesn't seem to have the same relevance as for Obama. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2008 10:53:18 GMT -5
Obama just turned 47, right? He could chalk up just about every negative to this point in his life to "youthful indiscretion" and call it a day.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 8, 2008 10:59:02 GMT -5
It's because Obama sought out people like William Ayers, Rev. Wright, and Davis and actively engaged with them and only now (at least in the case of Rev. Wright) is denouncing his association with them after he's running for president. That's the difference between Obama and, say, the McCain/John Hagee issue. I just think that this all comes up more w/ Obama because he is younger and seen as having been more influenced in the formation of his ideologies than is McCain, who is old hat and who people trust has established his own positions on things (whether that's true or not). Because of his age, Obama comes across as more impressionable than someone so much older. But if we went back 55 years, I bet we could find someone who McCain looked up to and sought out for advice who was also questionable in his beliefs. No one jumps on that, though, because the formation of McCain's beliefs happened so long ago, it doesn't seem to have the same relevance as for Obama. It comes up more because Obama associated with these people. If there are similar radicals in McCain's past, I'm sure they'll come to light - regardless of how old they are. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 8, 2008 10:59:41 GMT -5
Can we just have one thread for all the crackpot complaining about Obama? You and Elvado can hang out there and the rest of us can worry about actual issues. Only when Obama decides where he stands on actual issues.  |
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 8, 2008 11:09:08 GMT -5
I'm not saying that every negative is a youthful indiscretion. I'm saying that people who Obama associated with when he was 20 can still be reached and scrutinized. Many of McCain's influences for early in his life are probably not even alive anymore, much less fodder for the media. I just think that's why these kinds of attacks are mainly hitting Obama. It's impossible to respond in kind b/c equivalent influences on McCain just can't be found, or it may be impossible to research them in any depth.
This is like in 20 years, we'll have a race between a 45 year old and a 65 year old. One of them will have facebook photos of him cropping up all over the place, and the other won't. Obama's "mentors" can still be found, researched, interviewed, etc. McCain's would be quite literally 100 years old.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 8, 2008 11:55:06 GMT -5
Strummer, I understand your point, but if you analyze it, you are basically saying that such influences are fine and dandy and that "everyone's doing it." Whether I accept that or not is another issue, but even if I do, I'm not sure that it addresses the real issue. In this particular case, what we see is a habitual and systematic association of Obama and radicals. Don't try to cloud the issue with fluff like "well, I'm sure McCain had a bunch of radical associates as well, we just don't know who they are or if they are even alive anymore." That's nonsense and you are smart enough to know it.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 8, 2008 12:00:50 GMT -5
I'm not saying that every negative is a youthful indiscretion. I'm saying that people who Obama associated with when he was 20 can still be reached and scrutinized. Many of McCain's influences for early in his life are probably not even alive anymore, much less fodder for the media. I just think that's why these kinds of attacks are mainly hitting Obama. It's impossible to respond in kind b/c equivalent influences on McCain just can't be found, or it may be impossible to research them in any depth. This is like in 20 years, we'll have a race between a 45 year old and a 65 year old. One of them will have facebook photos of him cropping up all over the place, and the other won't. Obama's "mentors" can still be found, researched, interviewed, etc. McCain's would be quite literally 100 years old. Except that Obama didn't associate with these people when he was 20 - he was in his later 20s (in the case of Davis) and his 40s in the case of others. |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 8, 2008 12:10:08 GMT -5
I could care less who Obama associated with X number of years ago. That doesn't make him a communist or less able to lead. This article just says He associated with some one who "more than likely was a communist" and that means Obama is not worthy of becoming president. He also says that every communist was a Russian pawn. It almost sounds like he's afraidif obama's elected he'll turn the country over to communist Russia. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy thought The USSR still existed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2008 12:47:08 GMT -5
I could care less who Obama associated with X number of years ago. That doesn't make him a communist or less able to lead. This article just says He associated with some one who "more than likely was a communist" and that means Obama is not worthy of becoming president. He also says that every communist was a Russian pawn. It almost sounds like he's afraidif obama's elected he'll turn the country over to communist Russia. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy thought The USSR still existed. Unfortunately, it's nothing new. There were plenty of people who thought that JFK (the first - and still only - Catholic President) would be nothing more than a puppet of the Vatican and that the Pope would be running the country. These things come up because they actually resonate with some segment of the population. That's what's sad. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 8, 2008 12:59:11 GMT -5
You know, I didn't think Obama was a Communist either. Until I saw this...... admin.usnews.com/dbimages/master/6181/FE_DA_080807whispers.jpgOK, just kidding about the Communist part, but seriously, Obama folks. You need to get over yourselves. First the "presidential" seal, then taking the flag off of his plane in favor of his name, now this? I know this isn't something that was launched by the campaign, but as someone who opposes Obama, I can only hope that we start seeing more of this from his supporters. No, it doesn't seem cultish at ALL!  (not to mention the "a-hole" and Star Trek connotations) |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 8, 2008 12:59:46 GMT -5
Suppose someone came up with evidence that McCain had hung around with and been mentored by David Duke. Would that be a newsworthy item?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2008 13:08:29 GMT -5
You know, I didn't think Obama was a Communist either. Until I saw this...... admin.usnews.com/dbimages/master/6181/FE_DA_080807whispers.jpgOK, just kidding about the Communist part, but seriously, Obama folks. You need to get over yourselves. First the "presidential" seal, then taking the flag off of his plane in favor of his name, now this? I know this isn't something that was launched by the campaign, but as someone who opposes Obama, I can only hope that we start seeing more of this from his supporters. No, it doesn't seem cultish at ALL! (not to mention the "a-hole" and Star Trek connotations) The Othella Harrington Fan Club is filing a copyright infringement lawsuit as we speak. |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 8, 2008 13:09:11 GMT -5
I'm young so I didn't know who that was( one of the duke boys from hazard county?) with out a quick wikipedia search. I'm not sure whether it would be newsworthy although that's a weak definition. I mean have you seen the crap they put on the news? but anyway it wouldn't influence whether or not i voted for him. however there's a difference between being a communist and being part of the KKK. I think being part of the KKK is much much worse. I don't think someone being a communist makes them a horrible person, whereas being a member of a hate group pretty much does.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 8, 2008 15:13:35 GMT -5
I'm young so I didn't know who that was( one of the duke boys from hazard county?) with out a quick wikipedia search. I'm not sure whether it would be newsworthy although that's a weak definition. I mean have you seen the crap they put on the news? but anyway it wouldn't influence whether or not i voted for him. however there's a difference between being a communist and being part of the KKK. I think being part of the KKK is much much worse. I don't think someone being a communist makes them a horrible person, whereas being a member of a hate group pretty much does. The opposite is true, unless you think a KKK member is going to try to bring back Jim Crow. On the other hand, someone in line with the Communist Party is much more dangerous if he's going to try and enact policies based on communist party thinking. Here's a quote from Williams Ayers from this year: "Capitalism played its role historically and is exhausted as a force for progress: built on exploitation, theft, conquest, war, and racism, capitalism and imperialism must be defeated and a world revolution—a revolution against war and racism and materialism, a revolution based on human solidarity and love, cooperation and the common good —must win." If Obama's thoughts and plans lean towards that direction, even some, then I think that's an issue. |
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