thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Aug 14, 2008 15:37:17 GMT -5
Sir Saxa- I believe the USOC and IOC have done everything they can on the Chinese gymnasts- the problem is, if the state of China (not merely their Olympic committe) is commited to colluding, and it's damn near impossible not to draw that conclusion, there is NOTHING for the IOC to do. They've committed the perfect crime- they have falsified (almost certainly) unimpeachable govt documents so they've found a perfect way to cheat the games- and in so doing cheating all of the other girls who may have supportive olympic organizations at home but not a autocratic government hell bent on winning golds at any costs. I think the difference between that and Marion Jones going to Balco is night and day.
I'm sorry if I've overstated or mis-stated youe case as I see it. You've made some good points though about the games being about the athletes and not paying attention to the medals table...but I just can't accept "Women's" gold medal they have in their possession. Of course, this matters not. But that's what this board is for right?
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 14, 2008 15:40:12 GMT -5
Thebin, while I'm no fan of China's government in most affairs and certainly not their Olympic program -- and I'm all but certain there is systematic doping and other cheating going on -- we're not innocent as a country: www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html#3
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Post by williambraskyiii on Aug 14, 2008 15:49:47 GMT -5
PDR you sure seem to be drinking the China Kool Aid. There is no arguing with someone who is vascilatting between "you can't prove they cheat" and "yeah, they cheated probably, those girls are way under age but so what?" I got no more time for you Mao. Although I don't recall making the point, you probably can't prove they cheat on ages, look how hard it was to catch Danny Almonte, and he was in the US. However I think the point I have been making is that all women's gymnastics is a little sick, and that their cheating seems relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. As for Chinese kool aid, I've never been to the country, and am just a white guy from Ohio living in California, so I'm hardly in the tank for the reds. It just seems foolish to me that people get worked up over women's gymnastics on this board, since it's essentially an athletic contest (aka not a sport) for middle-aged housewives. When the winner is determined by a couple of people in the stands, you are not interesting enough to get worked up about cheating in. As much as I wholeheartedly agree with thebin, PDR kind of won me over with this post.
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Aug 14, 2008 16:15:06 GMT -5
Nadia Comenici was 14 when she won the gold. That Brit diver just turned 14 and he's being celebrated. I know that gymnastics has an age limit and diving doesn't but nobody says a derogatory word about that kid. I wonder why. Michael Phelps was 15 when he competed in Sydney. Katie Hoff was 14 when she qualified for Athens. I recall her puking her guts out when the pressure became too much. Heck, Jennifer Capriati was 13 and she was flying all over the world competing as a professional tennis player. At least we know that these Chinese girls are clean. No performance enhancing drugs. Our team had their chances and frankly, they didn't get the job done.
P.S. Just for the record, i actually agree with Bin
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 14, 2008 16:46:36 GMT -5
Nadia Comenici was 14 when she won the gold. That Brit diver just turned 14 and he's being celebrated. I know that gymnastics has an age limit and diving doesn't but nobody says a derogatory word about that kid. I wonder why. Michael Phelps was 15 when he competed in Sydney. Katie Hoff was 14 when she qualified for Athens. I recall her puking her guts out when the pressure became too much. Heck, Jennifer Capriati was 13 and she was flying all over the world competing as a professional tennis player. At least we know that these Chinese girls are clean. No performance enhancing drugs. Our team had their chances and frankly, they didn't get the job done. P.S. Just for the record, i actually agree with Bin None of those athletes broke any rules by competing at the ages you just listed. I think a lot of American kids may get pushed too hard to compete at these kinds of levels, but speaking strictly from a nationalistic, pro-American standpoint, I want the gold stripped from the team that cheated. Simple as that. As far as how and why the age rules exist, it means pretty much nothing to me.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 14, 2008 17:02:39 GMT -5
Sir Saxa- I believe the USOC and IOC have done everything they can on the Chinese gymnasts- the problem is, if the state of China (not merely their Olympic committe) is commited to colluding, and it's damn near impossible not to draw that conclusion, there is NOTHING for the IOC to do. They've committed the perfect crime- they have falsified (almost certainly) unimpeachable govt documents so they've found a perfect way to cheat the games- and in so doing cheating all of the other girls who may have supportive olympic organizations at home but not a autocratic government hell bent on winning golds at any costs. I think the difference between that and Marion Jones going to Balco is night and day. I'm sorry if I've overstated or mis-stated youe case as I see it. You've made some good points though about the games being about the athletes and not paying attention to the medals table...but I just can't accept "Women's" gold medal they have in their possession. Of course, this matters not. But that's what this board is for right? Hey Bin! Glad to see we've found some common ground. And of course I agree the Chinese broke the rules on the girls and their medal was won unfairly. I hope you won't let that impair your ability to enjoy the games and appreciate some amazing individual performances, like Lezak's incredible anchor leg for the gold!
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,866
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Post by thebin on Aug 14, 2008 17:19:12 GMT -5
Nadia Comenici was 14 when she won the gold. That Brit diver just turned 14 and he's being celebrated. I know that gymnastics has an age limit and diving doesn't but nobody says a derogatory word about that kid. I wonder why. Michael Phelps was 15 when he competed in Sydney. Katie Hoff was 14 when she qualified for Athens. I recall her puking her guts out when the pressure became too much. Heck, Jennifer Capriati was 13 and she was flying all over the world competing as a professional tennis player. At least we know that these Chinese girls are clean. No performance enhancing drugs. Our team had their chances and frankly, they didn't get the job done. P.S. Just for the record, i actually agree with Bin It's worth noting though that gymnastics, and women's gymnastics at that, is the only sport where being 12 and pre-pubecsent is an advantage. It is most certainly not an advantage in all the sports you listed. And Nadia could have been 8 years old but she broke no rules- and thus had no unfair advantage over the others in those games.
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PDRHoya99
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by PDRHoya99 on Aug 14, 2008 17:36:30 GMT -5
Thebin, while I'm no fan of China's government in most affairs and certainly not their Olympic program -- and I'm all but certain there is systematic doping and other cheating going on -- we're not innocent as a country: www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html#3Reading through the rest of SF's link, how great is this story: www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html#5Irish swimmer turns in urine sample that is mostly whiskey! Almost more culturally insensitive than the spanish basketball team photo.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Aug 14, 2008 18:13:55 GMT -5
Thebin, while I'm no fan of China's government in most affairs and certainly not their Olympic program -- and I'm all but certain there is systematic doping and other cheating going on -- we're not innocent as a country: www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html#3Reading through the rest of SF's link, how great is this story: www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html#5Irish swimmer turns in urine sample that is mostly whiskey! Almost more culturally insensitive than the spanish basketball team photo. Are you saying that Irishmen don't usually keep wiskey in the bathroom in case of emergencies? That sir is false and insensitive
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The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by The Stig on Aug 14, 2008 20:31:15 GMT -5
Now there's some substance to the rumors: sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/gymnastics/news/story?id=3534544Xinhua, China's state news agency, reported that one of their team's gymnasts was 13 earlier this year. Needless to say, the offending web page from their site has now disappeared, but the AP saved a copy. This is the same girl who's birth date is listed as Jan 1, 1992.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 14, 2008 22:13:36 GMT -5
we still own in swimming!
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Aug 15, 2008 0:25:00 GMT -5
We own women's gymnastics too! Great job by both Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson. They proved tonight that they are the two best in the world.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Aug 15, 2008 8:04:56 GMT -5
The US and Australia have won 55% of the swimming medals thus far. The US has won 41% of the swimming golds. There have been 74 swimming medals awarded so far- maybe I should stop complaining about the number of ping pong medals? Nah....ping pong is ridiculous.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,866
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Post by thebin on Aug 15, 2008 8:08:53 GMT -5
Fingers crossed, decent chance at an American sweep in the shot over the next hour...
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,866
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Post by thebin on Aug 15, 2008 9:35:01 GMT -5
Nope...only a silver for the US throwers, that's a disapointment.
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 15, 2008 10:47:04 GMT -5
We own women's gymnastics too! Great job by both Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson. They proved tonight that they are the two best in the world. We would also have crushed the Chinese girls if this was some kind of contest based on appearance. We have some very good looking ladies...er...they'll look good when they're legal. China had Skeletor going last night. www.smh.com.au/news/gymnastics/nastia-breaks-chinese-hearts/2008/08/15/1218307213704.html
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 15, 2008 12:30:28 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure only shawn isn't legal nastia's almost 19 and sacramone is almost 21.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Aug 15, 2008 16:30:21 GMT -5
Somehow gymnastics just isn't the same without the Perfect 10.
As far as sports that have too many/too few events, how about adding a few events in established sports:
- Team tennis (like the Davis Cup) - A 1-on-1 individual basketball tournament - A 'short guys' basketball tournament (6 feet or under) - 3 on 3 soccer - Beach soccer (they've already got a beach soccer World Cup) - Rugby (full, lightweight, beach, and sevens)
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 16, 2008 8:08:18 GMT -5
The way Michael Phelps won that 7th medal last night will expand his legend exponentially. I didn't think anything could top that first relay win when Lezak came back on the French swimmer. But holy smokes! There was no way Phelps was going to win last night.... right up until the final one hundredth of a second when he did!
Amazing amazing performance.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 16, 2008 9:20:00 GMT -5
that was ridiculous. Just like everyone else I assumed he had lost but then the US flag and phelps name appeared on the water with #1 next to it so what do I know.
Hope it wasn't an olympic conspiracy.
I was afraid that the protest would turn something up. thank god it didn't.
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