Barker Davis on Hibbert

[OldHoyafan]

Let me start out by saying I haven't seen any games the Hoyas have played so far this year. Also, I am a huge fan of Barker Davis coverage of the Hoya basketball games. That being said though, I think he is off base with the implied suggestion that the Hoyas should not start Hibbert. I must admit I too at first , thought the team would do better with Green in the post at the start and Hibbert subbing for him. However, after reading the results from each game, it is apparent that the Hoyas defense and rebounding have improved immensely since the start of the season. I think this has a direct correlation to the increased minutes of Hibbert. On the defensive and offensive boards he demands the attention of the opposing teams tallest player, which leaves Green matched with the power forward ,and we now know ,not many teams will have an athlete to match him. Also, the opposing small forward now has to battle 6'8" Bowman for the boards. On defense Big Roy clogs the middle just with his presense(example; the blocked shot of ND's Thomas with Hibbert standing flat footed in the lane). He also gives cover for Green and Bowman, who like to block shots, not to get early fouls.
There is no question the offense runs more efficient with Green in the post right now, but I think JT3 weigh's that against the other positives Hibbert's presense brings at the start.

[FOTP]

I think it all depends on match-ups. plus, who cares who starts? It all comes down to who finishes and the number of minutes.

Against teams liek Cuse and UCONN we need Roy to play a lot of minutes.

The St. John's game was an example of where it's tougher on Roy. They play a small line-up and he gets exposed getting up and down the floor.

I like Roy starting though. It gives the other team something to worry about and it's good for his confidence.

[SFHoya99]

It is a trade-off, I think. Offensively, we are much more effective with DJ in the lineup and no Hibbert. Jeff has some perimeter skills but is at his best down low; having Roy in at center moves him outside and the ball out of Jeff's hands. The announcers were correctly commenting early in the game how few touches Jeff had -- and Roy was in then. So it isn't that Roy isn't an effective offensive player -- because he can be. But he's not a perimeter threat at all, and he decreases Jeff's effectivess (less touches, stays outside, doesn't get the great mismatch v the opposing center).

On the flipside though, you're right. Roy only got one board last night -- and we got outrebounded. During Roy's hot streak (Cuse, ND) we outrebounded our opponents pretty substantially. It wasn't just hustle (we got plenty of loose balls) but we lost a lot of bulk in the middle against a strong rebounding team.

Defensively, he's obviously a huge presence.

I think III is handling it perfectly. PT comes on a game to game basis.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

Was is me, or did we have a ton of rebounds go out of bounds off our hands last night. It seemed like one of the effects of St. John's not-so-controlled chaos approach was that we were off rhythm a bit on both offensive and defensive boards.

[3GenerationHoya]

I agree with what SFHoya said about a trade-off between offense and defense, and I like the fact that Roy is starting for another reason: the future.

We don't know how long Owens will be around for. This could be his last season, or he may have a chance to come back next year. We do know that big Roy will be around for the next few seasons. So looking towards the future, I know that I am going to have an experienced starting lineup next season with all 5 guys back, and two years from now with 3 returning starters. That gives me, and hopefully the team as well, a feeling of consistency.

If we do get down early in the games, I would upgrade the lineup with a three point shooter off the bench rather than a plodding, defensive presence.

Owens is still getting the bulk of the minutes and seems to embrace the 6th man role - something some seniors in college basketball would rather not do. He should be commended for that unselfishness. So far, JTIII's lineups and substitutions have worked out beautifully.

[TBird41]

I think it's a matchup thing-against smaller quicker teams like SJ, Roy doesn't make as big a difference defensively and thus the defense/offense trade off doesn't go in his favor. Against bigger teams like Cuse and ND, he's much more effective defensively (his opponent isn't that much quicker) and it creates the matchup problems for them on defense that can be exploited. It's something that JT3 will probably be keeping in mind for the starting lineups and especially the 2nd halves, once it becomes clear if Roy is effective or not (evidenced by Roy's lack of minutes in the SJ game)

[Big Dog]

I think Barker Davis's article provided informed, knowledgable, and cogent analysis that is rare out of most sports beat writers, regardless of sport. Noticing that the Hoyas took off last night after Hibbert sat down was impressive--I didn't hear anybody on this board say anything similar.

Roy struggled last night against an up-tempo, reasonably crazy team. I don't think Barker was calling for him to sit. He was just making some very interesting observations. I hope we get more of it.

What is the deal with Barker returning to Hoyas coverage anyway? Do you think he requested the beat now that the Hoyas are playing well? Is Barker further up the totem pole than Ken Wright?

[TrueHoyaBlue]

I think Barker does have the seniority, as the Hoya beat was passed off to Ken Wright in the midst of the Esherick era, when, perhaps through frustration as a Hoya alum, Barker couldn't take it anymore. He still occasionally wrote a column on the Hoyas, but wouldn't cover the games.

That pattern seems to be another one that has changed with the Hoyas' recent resurgence.


As to his comments, I think matchups have everything to do with it. Not just at the end, Roy was a huge positive in the ND and Cuse games, with his presence on defense and his offensive contributions. In games like last nights (and against Rutgers), teams running essentially 4-guard lineups make it tough for Roy to operate at his peak.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

That said, one of Roy's fouls (his 4th, I think) was a complete snowjob by the ref. Shortly after his big block (of Hamilton?), Roy was talking a good game on his defensive assignment. His man got the ball, backed into Roy -- who was standing still, with his arms straight up and out -- and got the call, going to the line.

It seemed to me that the best explanation was a foul on Roy for "verbal abuse."

[SFHoya99]

Roy was also hosed on the one where the SJU was thrown to the ground. Roy might've gotten a bit of hand, but it was mostly all ball.

If DJ doesn't return next year, Roy may need to step up some more. Right now, when DJ is playing well, we are okay with the smaller lineup because DJ's 6'6". Either Roy, Marc or Tay will need to fill that void.

[Big Dog]

As Bob Wenzel said at the time, freshmen big men are going to find themselves in foul trouble from time to time.

I like how we're two different teams when Roy is in and when he isn't. And both of those teams can be successful.

[HOYAPLAYA]

SFHoya99 said:

Roy was also hosed on the one where the SJU was thrown to the ground. Roy might've gotten a bit of hand, but it was mostly all ball.

If DJ doesn't return next year, Roy may need to step up some more. Right now, when DJ is playing well, we are okay with the smaller lineup because DJ's 6'6". Either Roy, Marc or Tay will need to fill that void.

I was just checking our players stats and found something that I couldn't believe. DJ has only taken 18 2 point fg attempts this year.

That's one per game and would anybody care to guess how many of those he has made? 15

Is there any reason that someone who shoots this well from inside the arc doesn't get off more shots. I would guess that over half of the 18 attempts were dunks/layup attempts and that's why the percentage is so high. I've yet to see my Hoyas on TV this year, but where is he in the offense that he gets so few opportunities from inside the arc. I'm thinking that he's one of our better passers and that maybe they aren't finding him when he's open but 1 per game is just ridiculous.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

Could it be that he's just extremelyp selective with his shots? Does he only take shots that he can convert at an 85% clip? Or is it shy-ness?

Not sure which of these it is, or which I would rather have, but it makes for an interesting question.

[jerseyhoya34]

TrueHoyaBlue said:

That said, one of Roy's fouls (his 4th, I think) was a complete snowjob by the ref. Shortly after his big block (of Hamilton?), Roy was talking a good game on his defensive assignment. His man got the ball, backed into Roy -- who was standing still, with his arms straight up and out -- and got the call, going to the line.

It seemed to me that the best explanation was a foul on Roy for "verbal abuse."

From my vantage point in row two, that fourth foul was a foul. He got wrist and some arm on it, although it probably did look clean from a distance. Sure, I heckled the refs on it, but everyone in my neighborhood agreed that Roy got him.

[the_way]

Actually, the offense runs smooth and just as good with Roy in there. It just really is all about match-ups with the opposing team. It think its good we can be flexible like that with just a 7-man rotation. If its small-ball, we put DJ in and it works. If its normal or tall ball, having Roy in there helps. Whatever the case, the team can win in a variety of ways. Starting Roy is great, for his experience and our team. However, Barker Davis is okay, lets not go overboard with adulation. Again he is only just a beat writer for a college basketball team. Its not like he understands the nuances and intricacies of basketball.

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TrueHoyaBlue said:

Was is me, or did we have a ton of rebounds go out of bounds off our hands last night. It seemed like one of the effects of St. John's not-so-controlled chaos approach was that we were off rhythm a bit on both offensive and defensive boards.

I noticed the same thing

[the_way]

|-| said:

I noticed the same thing

Me too. Rich Chtvokin would say numerous times, G'town with the rebound, then suddenly, now back to St. Johns.

[SFHoya99]

DJ's the same player he was last year, more or less. Hesitant to drive or shoot at all, but very efficient.

That said, the addition of Jeff, Jon & Roy, the further development of AC and BB make it less important he do so.

And III uses him in a manner that exploits his strengths, not his weaknesses.

[FLHoya]

TrueHoyaBlue said:

Was is me, or did we have a ton of rebounds go out of bounds off our hands last night. It seemed like one of the effects of St. John's not-so-controlled chaos approach was that we were off rhythm a bit on both offensive and defensive boards.

That's part of it, although overall it's a copout IMO if the implication is that we were just unlucky on a lot of bounces.

The not-so-controlled chaos approach comments gets at part of it. The way SJU ran their "offense" and how we handled it defensively created some distortions when rebounding chances came up. For one, with Brandon Bowman on the perimeter guarding Darryl Hill, you lose one of your good rebounders. With Roy on the bench for more than half the game, you lose the tallest player. And whenever Jeff Green had to contest a shot by Lamont Hamilton...see where this is going?

There were several times when SJU had a 3-on-1 attempt at an offensive board, with our one being Ashanti Cook. To his credit, Ashanti can sometimes at least get a hand in and disrupt so there's not a simple putback and the defense can reset, but he's not a super-person.

The one thing we don't have on the team is a guy whose M.O. is to stick his giant rump into your gut and box you out. We're primarily a team that likes to contest shots and leap after balls. So there are probably more tip drills that you'll normally see in other teams' games. On the plus side, our guards have become much better this year at cleaning up the tip-outs and loose balls off rebounds.

We're probably an average rebounding team as a whole. But I think to some extent it varies on the system we defend against. No reason on face that we should have manhandled ND on the boards and turn around and let SJU take it to us, until you look at how we had to defend. ND confines most of its movement to the perimeter and takes jumpers, with little interior post play to get a PF or C to commit. Jeff, Roy, and Brandon cleaned up on the glass. SJU has guys running all over the place with less structure, and we have to play Bowman on a PG, so we have fewer RB opps where we're in the advantage.

[the_way]

FLHoya said:

That's part of it, although overall it's a copout IMO if the implication is that we were just unlucky on a lot of bounces.

The not-so-controlled chaos approach comments gets at part of it. The way SJU ran their "offense" and how we handled it defensively created some distortions when rebounding chances came up. For one, with Brandon Bowman on the perimeter guarding Darryl Hill, you lose one of your good rebounders. With Roy on the bench for more than half the game, you lose the tallest player. And whenever Jeff Green had to contest a shot by Lamont Hamilton...see where this is going?

There were several times when SJU had a 3-on-1 attempt at an offensive board, with our one being Ashanti Cook. To his credit, Ashanti can sometimes at least get a hand in and disrupt so there's not a simple putback and the defense can reset, but he's not a super-person.

The one thing we don't have on the team is a guy whose M.O. is to stick his giant rump into your gut and box you out. We're primarily a team that likes to contest shots and leap after balls. So there are probably more tip drills that you'll normally see in other teams' games. On the plus side, our guards have become much better this year at cleaning up the tip-outs and loose balls off rebounds.

We're probably an average rebounding team as a whole. But I think to some extent it varies on the system we defend against. No reason on face that we should have manhandled ND on the boards and turn around and let SJU take it to us, until you look at how we had to defend. ND confines most of its movement to the perimeter and takes jumpers, with little interior post play to get a PF or C to commit. Jeff, Roy, and Brandon cleaned up on the glass. SJU has guys running all over the place with less structure, and we have to play Bowman on a PG, so we have fewer RB opps where we're in the advantage.

Great assessment! Yeah we don't have that guy with the big rump and S.O.B. of an attitude in there down low to bang. Hopefully we can take care of that next year.